Covid vaccination status?

[Max Rockatansky]

I wore a buff early in the pandemic before masks were as ubiquitous to buy.  It was comfortable (I use it when mountain climbing), but if it doesn't do anything (or if it makes it worse) then obviously I'm going a different direction.  I've also read that it's worse to wear a mask outside if you're doing strenuous activity than to forego one altogether.  Basically you sweat into the mask making it more likely to "catch" particles in the air. 

Chris

Outside of experimenting once on an 8 mile run I haven't worn a mask during exercise.  The conclusion I came to was that it was really easy for me to dodge people by six feet.

When I'm on a trail that's in the mountains and you don't have the ability to step off, I keep my mask handy so I can put it on when someone approaches. But, bluntly that's more of a courtesy for the other person than it is my fear of catching it outside with a breeze blowing and only being within 6 feet of someone for 2 seconds.

Chris

It depends.  When I'm by myself I usually hike way faster or even trail run, my wife really slows me down.  Unless it is something like Morro Rock I generally feel pretty comfortable I can get out of the way.  My wife doesn't have the dexterity I do which is mostly the reason I carry one with me if we are hiking together.  Either way, I don't really feel much concern regarding catching something in an open air environment with such short intervals of interaction.

[kphoger]

I was reading an interview about this in one of the local Vermont papers, and the idea was to start with carrots more than sticks. The dogmatic anti-vaxxers get the most airspace, sure, but there are a decent population of people who just don't know for various reasons, and soft diplomacy (e.g. reassuring them that the technology is safe, that their own doctor has gotten it/will get it, that family members or other people got it and are fine and the world keeps spinning) will probably go a long way toward convincing enough people to get it in order to achieve herd immunity.

Heck, I have good friends who don't know if they want to get vaccinated, because they want people more vulnerable than they are to get whatever's available instead.  Then, by the time that's happened, there might not be any need for them to get the vaccine anyway.  That's hardly an attitude to penalize.

My retina specialist, on the other hand, won't see you if you've been anywhere outside of the area any time even remotely soon.

This is one thing I don't understand, many people consider travel of any kind to be dangerous. Merely traveling does not make you any more likely to get it, and often times people are traveling to places with less people infected than where they live, which means they're probably actually less likely to get sick. For a while, my work said that if any of us travel outside the state, we should tell them and then not come in to work for a week afterwards, as if somehow the act of crossing a state border makes you more likely to be sick.

I've taken two of my sons in for eye exams in the past few months.  On the form, it asks if you've been out of the state within the last thirty days.  THIRTY DAYS?  Good grief!

So I lied.

Even states with mandates have shoddy compliance, both in people wearing them and in enforcement.

Not the case around here in upstate NY in my experience.  Sure, some aren't quite over the nose, some might be fairly useless neck gaiters, but as far as the rate of reasonable compliance in places where you're supposed to be wearing one, I'd put it way over 99%.

I haven't been able to figure out why neck gaiters are getting such a bad rap. They have the same functionality as a mask.

The articles I read basically said they don't stop nearly as many potential particles, hence why they're easier to breathe through. If the air gets through more easily, so does everything else.

Not only that, I've read that they can split particles and make things even worse than if you didn't wear anything at all.  I'm not sure why they're still legal for the purposes of complying with a mask mandate.

The last time I read about that, it turns out that the experiment showing the whole particle-splitting thing was overblown, the authors stressed said that the supposed implications weren't really implied by the results, but by that time it had gone viral (pun not intended) and neck gaiters were considered inferior.



Meanwhile, I have my first shot scheduled for Friday evening.

Our friend who was laid up sick for a couple of days after getting his vaccination–well, his wife reacted badly to hers later as well:  chills, headache, fever, lethargy, body aches.  Grrr.

[Max Rockatansky]

I've lied (or rather omitted) about when I've gone hiking out of state.  Quite frankly is nobody"˜a business but my own and it's not exactly something that carries a greater risk of contracting COVID as opposed to things like going to the store. 

Regarding vaccination side effects, I didn't have any on the first round. 

[kphoger]

I've lied (or rather omitted) about when I've gone hiking out of state.  Quite frankly is nobody"˜a business but my own and it's not exactly something that carries a greater risk of contracting COVID as opposed to things like going to the store. 

Regarding vaccination side effects, I didn't have any on the first round. 

In our case, we had gone out of state something like three weeks earlier.  While we were there, our family chose to watch the graduation on TV from my sister-in-law's house rather than going to the university itself.  'Within the last 14 days' I would have understood, but not 'within the last 30 days'.

Our friend's wife's injection site is also red, swollen, painful, and hot to the touch.  She thinks they may have missed the muscle, too, based on the location.

[Max Rockatansky]

I've lied (or rather omitted) about when I've gone hiking out of state.  Quite frankly is nobody"˜a business but my own and it's not exactly something that carries a greater risk of contracting COVID as opposed to things like going to the store. 

Regarding vaccination side effects, I didn't have any on the first round. 

In our case, we had gone out of state something like three weeks earlier.  While we were there, our family chose to watch the graduation on TV from my sister-in-law's house rather than going to the university itself.  'Within the last 14 days' I would have understood, but not 'within the last 30 days'.

Our friend's wife's injection site is also red, swollen, painful, and hot to the touch.  She thinks they may have missed the muscle, too, based on the location.

In my case I live in a state that doesn't have a travel quarantine mandate.  So when I run into something like a Dentist office running contrary to actual public health policy where is my incentive to answer truthfully?   It would be one thing if I was interacting with people, but in that specific instance I didn't interact with anyone.   It would have cost me my appointment if I had answered truthfully, so I didn't.

[jakeroot]

Even states with mandates have shoddy compliance, both in people wearing them and in enforcement.

Not the case around here in upstate NY in my experience.  Sure, some aren't quite over the nose, some might be fairly useless neck gaiters, but as far as the rate of reasonable compliance in places where you're supposed to be wearing one, I'd put it way over 99%.

Agreed with this from Western NY as well. I'd say 98-99% is a reasonable estimate. We also started with it much earlier than other parts of the country - April or May, as I recall? There has been very good compliance throughout the pandemic that's understandably starting to slip a little bit now.

Same here in Western Washington. Mask compliance is exceptional, even outdoors. Non-mask wearing in mask-mandated environments is very rare. Our mandate went into place in late June, but was common in some cities by that point. It has never been lifted.

The one exception might be apartment buildings. It seems people are not as willing to wear masks between entering the building and their units, although they usually "mask up" when coming face to face with someone else.

[bandit957]

I only ever use a bandana. And never outdoors.

I've invented a way to raise or lower a bandana just by moving a muscle in the face.

[kphoger]

I've invented a way to raise or lower a bandana just by moving a muscle in the face.

Trademarked, I assume?  The bandanabip^TM, perhaps?

[Duke87]

My daughter has been involved in contact tracing and vaccination appointments.  CT has been a disaster compared to NY on the vaccination front.  They have literally run out of slots for appointments and do not automatically schedule the second appointment, causing horrendous problems -- especially with the requirement that your second appointment must be at the same location as the first.

Well that's a fascinating take, given that CT currently ranks 5/50 for shots given per capita and 4/50 for percent of population fully vaccinated. NY ranks 29/50 and 41/50 on these metrics, respectively. (data available here)

I haven't been able to figure out why neck gaiters are getting such a bad rap. They have the same functionality as a mask.

The issue is that the majority of neck gaiters out there are made of thin and porous material which make them ineffective. This Duke University study measures this in a simple and straightforward way.

Of course, the nuance here quickly gets lost and people rush to interpret the results as "neck gaiters are ineffective" rather than as "thin and porous face coverings are ineffective", focusing on the more obvious variable rather than the more logically meaningful one.

[MikeTheActuary]

CT has been a disaster compared to NY on the vaccination front.  They have literally run out of slots for appointments and do not automatically schedule the second appointment, causing horrendous problems -- especially with the requirement that your second appointment must be at the same location as the first.

FWIW, when I was in Waterbury getting my first shot on Sunday, my 15 minute observation period was spent in line, waiting to get to the "make second appointment" station.  I've heard similar stories from others in CT, although I wouldn't discount the possibility of there being screw-ups elsewhere.

The biggest headache has been balancing demand with the availability of appointment slots.  500k people became eligible on Friday, yet only 80k appointments were made.

[jakeroot]

Of course, the nuance here quickly gets lost and people rush to interpret the results as "neck gaiters are ineffective" rather than as "thin and porous face coverings are ineffective", focusing on the more obvious variable rather than the more logically meaningful one.

I suppose that's simply because neck gaiters are quite easy to spot. Face masks all look about the same. Assuming neck gaiters are universally thin and porous, it's easy enough to just ban neck gaiters.

[kphoger]

I haven't been able to figure out why neck gaiters are getting such a bad rap. They have the same functionality as a mask.

The issue is that the majority of neck gaiters out there are made of thin and porous material which make them ineffective. This Duke University study measures this in a simple and straightforward way.

Of course, the nuance here quickly gets lost and people rush to interpret the results as "neck gaiters are ineffective" rather than as "thin and porous face coverings are ineffective", focusing on the more obvious variable rather than the more logically meaningful one.

Oh hey, look, that study I referenced.  More accurate would be "thin and porous face coverings may theoretically be less effective at preventing the spread of a given airborne pathogen".  But, in this world of clickbait social media, that sort of nuance is lost on people, therefore neck gaiters simply went from the "good" category to the "bad" category in people's minds in a matter of one or two weeks.

[Rothman]

My daughter has been involved in contact tracing and vaccination appointments.  CT has been a disaster compared to NY on the vaccination front.  They have literally run out of slots for appointments and do not automatically schedule the second appointment, causing horrendous problems -- especially with the requirement that your second appointment must be at the same location as the first.

Well that's a fascinating take, given that CT currently ranks 5/50 for shots given per capita and 4/50 for percent of population fully vaccinated. NY ranks 29/50 and 41/50 on these metrics, respectively. (data available here)

Pfft.  I like this more specific data, which does show CT slightly higher than NY in terms of percent population that has received a first dose or both doses...but also shows CT has burned through its supply much faster, thus causing the issues my daughter is seeing firsthand there.

In other words, CT has used up 85% of its available supply for a few meager percentage points above NY, when NY's supply has not been drawn down as much.

Data here

[kphoger]

In other news:  I now have an appointment for my first shot.  I'm getting Moderna at 12.45 PM this Saturday, March 27, at the Hunter Health Clinic, which is accepting all comers age 16 or over and does not have to adhere to state or county criteria since it receives its doses through the federal community health clinic program.  (For nostalgia's sake, I would have liked to have been vaccinated at our old downtown library, but it is a county-run site for which I am unlikely to be eligible until May 1.  I think it is preferable to be vaccinated sooner rather than later, given that our county is likely to drop its mask mandate this week.)

The state of Kansas did indeed remove the authority of counties and cities to enact mask mandates–and therefore our county has now rescinded its mask mandate in order to not be open to litigation.  News reports invariably state that now it will be "up to individual businesses" to enact or not enact a mask mandate, and there are plenty of opinions to go around–both from the "man on the street" and from business owners.

Am I missing something?

Executive Order 20-68, which was issued by the state in November, applied to every county/jurisdiction that hadn't crafted its own mandates.  That is, in the absence of a county- or city-specific mandate, the state mandate applied.  As far as I know, that executive order is still in force.  So what really changed?  Didn't we merely switch from one (county) mask mandate to another (state) mask mandate?

[hbelkins]

Even states with mandates have shoddy compliance, both in people wearing them and in enforcement.

Not the case around here in upstate NY in my experience.  Sure, some aren't quite over the nose, some might be fairly useless neck gaiters, but as far as the rate of reasonable compliance in places where you're supposed to be wearing one, I'd put it way over 99%.

I haven't been able to figure out why neck gaiters are getting such a bad rap. They have the same functionality as a mask.

The articles I read basically said they don't stop nearly as many potential particles, hence why they're easier to breathe through. If the air gets through more easily, so does everything else.

Chris

Not only that, I've read that they can split particles and make things even worse than if you didn't wear anything at all.  I'm not sure why they're still legal for the purposes of complying with a mask mandate.

Most mandates specify "face coverings," not the specific term "mask." So technically, clear plastic face shields would qualify as being compliant. The only place I know of that specifically prohibited gaiters was the UK football stadium in Lexington. Walmart has signage that specifically allows bandanas and gaiters in addition to masks.

KYTC bought hi-viz gaiters for our crew members to wear, so there must not be too much concern about them in a state where the governor has been one of the most overreactive ones in the country.

[JayhawkCO]

Most mandates specify "face coverings," not the specific term "mask." So technically, clear plastic face shields would qualify as being compliant. The only place I know of that specifically prohibited gaiters was the UK football stadium in Lexington. Walmart has signage that specifically allows bandanas and gaiters in addition to masks.

KYTC bought hi-viz gaiters for our crew members to wear, so there must not be too much concern about them in a state where the governor has been one of the most overreactive ones in the country.

Flying to Vegas this past weekend, Southwest announced that the clear plastic shields did not count as a face covering.  I've never quite understood those anyway.

Chris

[ET21]

Scheduled my first shot for tomorrow

[hotdogPi]

Most mandates specify "face coverings," not the specific term "mask." So technically, clear plastic face shields would qualify as being compliant.

I'm surprised I haven't seen a clear mask out of the thousands of people I've seen, even one made of fabric.

Being clear makes no difference as to the effectiveness. If it's plastic, and the plastic prevents particles from getting through (the ones you're talking about don't, but I'm imagining flexible plastic put on like a fabric mask), there's no reason why it shouldn't be allowed.

[kphoger]

Most mandates specify "face coverings," not the specific term "mask." So technically, clear plastic face shields would qualify as being compliant.

I'm surprised I haven't seen a clear mask out of the thousands of people I've seen, even one made of fabric.

A good friend of mine has a cloth one with a clear plastic part in front of the mouth.  That's because she's a music teacher, and the students need to see her mouth during class.

[webny99]

Most mandates specify "face coverings," not the specific term "mask." So technically, clear plastic face shields would qualify as being compliant.

I'm surprised I haven't seen a clear mask out of the thousands of people I've seen, even one made of fabric.

Not even a face shield? I've seen several face shields, some worn with a mask as well, and some worn instead of a mask.

[J N Winkler]

The state of Kansas did indeed remove the authority of counties and cities to enact mask mandates–and therefore our county has now rescinded its mask mandate in order to not be open to litigation.  News reports invariably state that now it will be "up to individual businesses" to enact or not enact a mask mandate, and there are plenty of opinions to go around–both from the "man on the street" and from business owners.

Am I missing something?

Executive Order 20-68, which was issued by the state in November, applied to every county/jurisdiction that hadn't crafted its own mandates.  That is, in the absence of a county- or city-specific mandate, the state mandate applied.  As far as I know, that executive order is still in force.  So what really changed?  Didn't we merely switch from one (county) mask mandate to another (state) mask mandate?

I think the thing you are missing is that the legislature voided all of the governor's covid orders to date.  The short description of the bill (which in fact is not all that short) contains the phrase "prohibiting certain actions by the governor related to the COVID-19 health emergency and revoking all executive orders related to such emergency on March 31, 2021."

The Wichita Eagle has reported that the Wichita City Council is considering reimposing a mask mandate by local ordinance, which it is free to do under its home-rule powers.  This would cover about 70% of the county population.  Of the seven council members (including the mayor), I expect Becky Tuttle, who represents a fairly conservative district in northeast Wichita, to be the swing vote.

[kphoger]

So the state order was voided, and county orders were prohibited?  How does that make sense?

Hmmm... instead of having two, possibly conflicting interests–let's just get rid of both!

[J N Winkler]

So the state order was voided, and county orders were prohibited?  How does that make sense?

Hmmm... instead of having two, possibly conflicting interests–let's just get rid of both!

I don't know that SB 40 actually forbids counties from making mask mandates or other health orders.  However, it apparently makes it easier for businesses to challenge them in court and harder for counties to prevail, which is why our county has cited the new law as its reason for lifting the mask requirement.

I expect vaccine prioritization to collapse soon, partly as a result of this.  We're already combining Phases 3 and 4 (ages 16-64, at two separate levels of higher-than-normal vulnerability to bad covid due to underlying conditions).  When you take away the protection of a mandatory mask order, it becomes harder to say No to those who are willing to be vaccinated and see it as important to their own safety.

[Duke87]

Pfft.  I like this more specific data, which does show CT slightly higher than NY in terms of percent population that has received a first dose or both doses...but also shows CT has burned through its supply much faster, thus causing the issues my daughter is seeing firsthand there.

In other words, CT has used up 85% of its available supply for a few meager percentage points above NY, when NY's supply has not been drawn down as much.

Data here

*shrug* Regardless of the details, CT has achieved better results than NY on the one statistic that matters, which is the number of shots in arms.

I am not familiar with the process of scheduling second appointments as I have yet to go through it myself, but both my parents have successfully done so and neither has had any complaints.


New York, meanwhile, has had plenty of messes with distributing doses - no one in CT is driving to the other end of the state to get a shot because appointments are disproportionately available over there. In NY, you have people driving to Potsdam or Plattsburgh from Long Island to get vaccinated because the state can't figure out how to allot things properly. And all this was happening while Yankee Stadium had tons of appointments available but since they were restricted to Bronx residents in the name of equity theater, no one else in the area was able to take advantage. And while the site in Washington Heights was having problems serving locals since no one thought it might be necessary to have staff that speaks Spanish in one of the largest Hispanic neighborhoods in the state.

Connecticut also has never flushed doses down the toilet because somewhere ran out of currently eligible people to jab and the governor had threatened to draw and quarter anyone who dared jab someone not yet eligible. In what state was that happening? Oh yeah...

[vdeane]

Connecticut also has never flushed doses down the toilet because somewhere ran out of currently eligible people to jab and the governor had threatened to draw and quarter anyone who dared jab someone not yet eligible. In what state was that happening? Oh yeah...

Weren't those doses supposed to be taken and given to places that hadn't run out?