AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Old vs new bridges  (Read 9241 times)

tolbs17

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 3299
  • Age: 19
  • Location: Greenville, NC
  • Last Login: Today at 09:21:00 AM
Old vs new bridges
« on: March 16, 2021, 09:56:50 PM »

If this highway (I-95 in Roanoke Rapids) opened in the 60s, were these bridges built in the 60s? Look at the Roanoke river too.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2021, 09:59:20 PM by tolbs17 »
Logged

Max Rockatansky

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 16483
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Route 9, Sector 26
  • Last Login: Today at 07:59:11 AM
    • Gribblenation
Re: Old vs new bridges
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2021, 10:10:27 PM »

Have you checked the substructure of the bridge on the street below for construction year stamps?
Logged

webny99

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 7999
  • Left lane is for passing, not camping!

  • Age: 22
  • Location: Rochester, NY
  • Last Login: October 23, 2021, 09:15:00 PM
Re: Old vs new bridges
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2021, 10:14:38 PM »

My gut instinct was that they're definitely not built in the '60's; they look fairly new to me.

I looked it up, and sure enough: Both the Roanoke River and US 158 bridges were built in 1999/2000, per NC's bridge inventory (see page 133).

tolbs17

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 3299
  • Age: 19
  • Location: Greenville, NC
  • Last Login: Today at 09:21:00 AM
Re: Old vs new bridges
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2021, 10:29:11 PM »

My gut instinct was that they're definitely not built in the '60's; they look fairly new to me.

I looked it up, and sure enough: Both the Roanoke River and US 158 bridges were built in 1999/2000, per NC's bridge inventory (see page 133).
I see. It says 1999. They must have been replaced then cause the highway opened in the 60s.

Compare it to the Dunn bridges and those haven't been replaced since then?
« Last Edit: March 16, 2021, 10:33:45 PM by tolbs17 »
Logged

Mapmikey

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3637
  • Co-curator with Froggie of www.vahighways.com

  • Age: 51
  • Last Login: Today at 09:11:14 AM
    • Co-curator Virginia Highways Project
Re: Old vs new bridges
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2021, 11:02:14 AM »

My gut instinct was that they're definitely not built in the '60's; they look fairly new to me.

I looked it up, and sure enough: Both the Roanoke River and US 158 bridges were built in 1999/2000, per NC's bridge inventory (see page 133).
I see. It says 1999. They must have been replaced then cause the highway opened in the 60s.

Compare it to the Dunn bridges and those haven't been replaced since then?

Yes, the Dunn bridges are original 1955 structures.

Here are some tips on figuring out this kind of question in NC...

- Original 1960s bridges on NC interstates have no shoulders at all and have the railing style like this (many covered by guard rail now) - https://goo.gl/maps/kKDP1BiQw6cBb5CVA

Could a 1960s bridge be rehabbed instead of rebuilt entirely?  The modern railing gives a hint but not the whole story...
Compare the underneath of the US 158 interchange which has modern piers - https://goo.gl/maps/mJpo9VdwrV13gVUg9
Compare the underneath at Exit 97 which has original piers, plus new piers added to get shoulders onto it - https://goo.gl/maps/mSkGGd2BzzZzQ1Tv8

On the first bridge I link way above, the surface has been rehabbed but nothing else.

The US 158 interchange used to be really dangerous northbound because the on-ramp from US 158 ended entirely before the adjacent railroad bridge and there was next to no merge area.  This has always been a very busy interchange.

For bridge dates in general:

If you want to know when a bridge was built (or rebuilt - sometimes they have original and rebuilt dates) go here - http://bridgereports.com/

If you want to know when a bridge rebuilt entirely since 2011 was built prior to replacement, go here - https://web.archive.org/web/20110501230146/http://www.uglybridges.com/
Logged

Dirt Roads

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1088
  • Location: Central North Carolina
  • Last Login: October 23, 2021, 12:35:31 PM
Re: Old vs new bridges
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2021, 01:46:25 PM »

Could a 1960s bridge be rehabbed instead of rebuilt entirely?  The modern railing gives a hint but not the whole story...
Compare the underneath at Exit 97 which has original piers, plus new piers added to get shoulders onto it - https://goo.gl/maps/mSkGGd2BzzZzQ1Tv8

Slick.  I don't drive the I-95 corridor much anymore, so I totally missed this construction.  Wasn't aware that NCDOT had any bridges that widened both sides of the original lanes to add shoulders.  These bridges are over the North Carolina Rail Road, which may have something to do with the construction methodology.
Logged

Mapmikey

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3637
  • Co-curator with Froggie of www.vahighways.com

  • Age: 51
  • Last Login: Today at 09:11:14 AM
    • Co-curator Virginia Highways Project
Re: Old vs new bridges
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2021, 02:40:51 PM »

Could a 1960s bridge be rehabbed instead of rebuilt entirely?  The modern railing gives a hint but not the whole story...
Compare the underneath at Exit 97 which has original piers, plus new piers added to get shoulders onto it - https://goo.gl/maps/mSkGGd2BzzZzQ1Tv8

Slick.  I don't drive the I-95 corridor much anymore, so I totally missed this construction.  Wasn't aware that NCDOT had any bridges that widened both sides of the original lanes to add shoulders.  These bridges are over the North Carolina Rail Road, which may have something to do with the construction methodology.

Here are examples of the same method with no railroad involved, on I-85 northeast of Durham - https://goo.gl/maps/jURrNWqRj7vAVqWLA
https://goo.gl/maps/YAc4CPfuqx88njm86
Logged

tolbs17

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 3299
  • Age: 19
  • Location: Greenville, NC
  • Last Login: Today at 09:21:00 AM
Re: Old vs new bridges
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2021, 12:14:39 PM »

This my guess for the bridges in North Carolina.

1950s

1960s

1970s steel barriers

1970s brown barriers

1980s (present-day)

1990s steel barriers (1)

1990s steel barriers (2)

1990s normal barriers (the southbound bridge)

2000s

2010s I miss those red things on the bottom. compared to this which doesn't have them.

2010s This one uses the steel barriers. On a freeway. Interesting.


I have to say, I enjoy the ones with the steel barriers more. They look nicer and not so dull looking. But I'm sure it's a little more costly to build though.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2021, 12:18:23 PM by tolbs17 »
Logged

SkyPesos

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3432
  • Age: 18
  • Location: Cincinnati, OH/Lafayette, IN
  • Last Login: Today at 02:39:01 AM
Re: Old vs new bridges
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2021, 12:24:10 PM »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from some observations, it looks like some of the early bridges have steel railings on them, like this example .
Logged
Traveled 2di: 4, 5, 10, 20, 24, 26, 29, 35, 39, 40, 44, 55, 57, 64, 65, 66, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 83, 84, 85, 87, 88, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95
My Fictional Highways

Fundamental Theorem of AARoads: If itís flat, itís Illinois.

tolbs17

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 3299
  • Age: 19
  • Location: Greenville, NC
  • Last Login: Today at 09:21:00 AM
Re: Old vs new bridges
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2021, 12:32:13 PM »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from some observations, it looks like some of the early bridges have steel railings on them, like this example .
The ones from the 60s have them posted above. Also the I-440 segment (currently being upgraded right now) has them.

The steel railings are just for decoration so they can look nicer.
Logged

Mapmikey

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3637
  • Co-curator with Froggie of www.vahighways.com

  • Age: 51
  • Last Login: Today at 09:11:14 AM
    • Co-curator Virginia Highways Project
Re: Old vs new bridges
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2021, 01:00:17 PM »

This my guess for the bridges in North Carolina.

1950s

1960s

1970s steel barriers

1970s brown barriers

1980s (present-day)

1990s steel barriers (1)

1990s steel barriers (2)

1990s normal barriers (the southbound bridge)

2000s

2010s I miss those red things on the bottom. compared to this which doesn't have them.

2010s This one uses the steel barriers. On a freeway. Interesting.


I have to say, I enjoy the ones with the steel barriers more. They look nicer and not so dull looking. But I'm sure it's a little more costly to build though.

NC uses a few more types on its freeways, especially in urban areas:

The double steel rail - https://goo.gl/maps/MMWqJhWYC3qUD8wU9
The triple steel rail - https://goo.gl/maps/D5ibR3rXrAtJBZvY8
This style was prevalent in the 1950s/early 60s for bridges wider than 2 lanes - https://goo.gl/maps/aDshucV6LDpduxY6A

My grandfather was a laborer for a time on the 1950s bridge you linked to.
Logged

tolbs17

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 3299
  • Age: 19
  • Location: Greenville, NC
  • Last Login: Today at 09:21:00 AM
Re: Old vs new bridges
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2021, 01:56:43 PM »

^^^^

I'm sure you're talking about grade separations.

and the 1950 bridges that they use that's wider than 2 lanes, they try to keep the same original design like this one or this one.

Can't find where the original structure was converted to the modern one, but the ones need replacing in Greenville are the northbound bridges that are on Memorial Dr, 5th st over a creek near 10th, and the one at rock spring rd.
Logged

Mapmikey

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3637
  • Co-curator with Froggie of www.vahighways.com

  • Age: 51
  • Last Login: Today at 09:11:14 AM
    • Co-curator Virginia Highways Project
Re: Old vs new bridges
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2021, 03:12:40 PM »

^^^^

I'm sure you're talking about grade separations.

and the 1950 bridges that they use that's wider than 2 lanes, they try to keep the same original design like this one or this one.

Can't find where the original structure was converted to the modern one, but the ones need replacing in Greenville are the northbound bridges that are on Memorial Dr, 5th st over a creek near 10th, and the one at rock spring rd.

The 1950s design has all kinds of possibilities...

A lot of the ones in the larger cities on older freeways were rehabbed to double or triple metal rail style
The US 301 Cape Fear river bridge was rebuilt to a weird triple metal rail - https://goo.gl/maps/3JRan6zPxHGraxPp7
The NC 39 overpass of I-85 started out as one, remodeled to triple metal rail, then remodeled back to the 1950s style - https://goo.gl/maps/py73ZyMmJorxWohL7

Another much older style that was never used on freeways would be like this one - https://goo.gl/maps/PdArPCCrFtmD8ZMD7
This style was used on longer bridges too - https://goo.gl/maps/E7bAdbgZnCUSxFrE7

The Memorial Dr bridges are originals, NB from 1955 and SB from 1977.  The other two bridges you mention were built in 1950.
Logged

tolbs17

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 3299
  • Age: 19
  • Location: Greenville, NC
  • Last Login: Today at 09:21:00 AM
Re: Old vs new bridges
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2021, 03:26:20 PM »

and do they still use the single metal rail style like they did in the 70s?

Also, surprisingly, the southwest bypass has no fences on the bridges for the railroad tracks.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2021, 03:32:48 PM by tolbs17 »
Logged

tolbs17

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 3299
  • Age: 19
  • Location: Greenville, NC
  • Last Login: Today at 09:21:00 AM
Re: Old vs new bridges
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2021, 09:06:50 PM »

I was thinking the triple rail style was used in the mid 2000s. They stopped using that design I assume. They use the double rails
Logged

Tom958

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1007
  • Age: 63
  • Location: Lawrenceville, GA
  • Last Login: October 23, 2021, 11:51:41 PM
Re: Old vs new bridges
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2021, 02:21:29 PM »

If this highway (I-95 in Roanoke Rapids) opened in the 60s, were these bridges built in the 60s? Look at the Roanoke river too.

I'm late to the party here, but... the guardrails on these bridges are Jersey barriers. While Jersey barriers first appeared in their present form in 1959, they were used almost exclusively as median barriers until the mid/late '70s-early '80s, when they became the dominant form of bridge guardrail for high-speed highways. Also, weathering steel with its rusty appearance didn't come into wide use until a bit after that. That holds up for pretty much every state.

I'm 62, so this type of thing is a lot more meaningful to me as someone who's watched bridge designs evolve over time. You, on the other hand, weren't even born when the bridges in question were built. I'm happy to see that you're interested, though. Have you perchance had a look at ORIGINAL Interstate Bridge Designs From Every State? Someone needs to do a proper post about North Carolina there...

Logged

tolbs17

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 3299
  • Age: 19
  • Location: Greenville, NC
  • Last Login: Today at 09:21:00 AM
Re: Old vs new bridges
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2021, 03:43:17 PM »

If this highway (I-95 in Roanoke Rapids) opened in the 60s, were these bridges built in the 60s? Look at the Roanoke river too.

I'm late to the party here, but... the guardrails on these bridges are Jersey barriers. While Jersey barriers first appeared in their present form in 1959, they were used almost exclusively as median barriers until the mid/late '70s-early '80s, when they became the dominant form of bridge guardrail for high-speed highways. Also, weathering steel with its rusty appearance didn't come into wide use until a bit after that. That holds up for pretty much every state.

I'm 62, so this type of thing is a lot more meaningful to me as someone who's watched bridge designs evolve over time. You, on the other hand, weren't even born when the bridges in question were built. I'm happy to see that you're interested, though. Have you perchance had a look at ORIGINAL Interstate Bridge Designs From Every State? Someone needs to do a proper post about North Carolina there...
Yes I did and did not know what to say. Maybe we can merge these threads?
Logged

Dirt Roads

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1088
  • Location: Central North Carolina
  • Last Login: October 23, 2021, 12:35:31 PM
Re: Old vs new bridges
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2021, 03:35:47 PM »

If this highway (I-95 in Roanoke Rapids) opened in the 60s, were these bridges built in the 60s? Look at the Roanoke river too.

I'm late to the party here, but... the guardrails on these bridges are Jersey barriers. While Jersey barriers first appeared in their present form in 1959, they were used almost exclusively as median barriers until the mid/late '70s-early '80s, when they became the dominant form of bridge guardrail for high-speed highways. Also, weathering steel with its rusty appearance didn't come into wide use until a bit after that. That holds up for pretty much every state.
Bridge Designs From Every State[/url]? Someone needs to do a proper post about North Carolina there...

I don't think North Carolina has any, but there are some states that converted bridges built in the 1960s to modern Jersey barriers when their decks were fully reconstructed.  The engineers have to be careful, as the modern Jersey barriers have loads much greater than the older metal barriers.  As mention early in this thread, North Carolina does have a few bridges where the decks were widened and have additional side columns beneath the new shoulder, and thus were modified to allow the use of Jersey barriers.  I don't know how prevalent that is.  The one mentioned above is over the North Carolina Rail Road (private company, wholly owned by the State) which manages its railroad property much differently than the Class 1 carriers.

Indeed, someone needs to help out North Carolina on the BDFES thread.
Logged

Mapmikey

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3637
  • Co-curator with Froggie of www.vahighways.com

  • Age: 51
  • Last Login: Today at 09:11:14 AM
    • Co-curator Virginia Highways Project
Re: Old vs new bridges
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2021, 07:54:52 PM »

North Carolina spent all their time figuring out ways to raise the 1960s overpass heights on I-95 instead of doing anything else.

However, my example from Reply #4 at Selma might be an example of resurface and convert to jersey wall - https://goo.gl/maps/mSkGGd2BzzZzQ1Tv8

Here's one on I-85 where 3 (?!?) of the 4 rails were converted - https://goo.gl/maps/AafxPCB13qDGBK9h7

I don't get down to NC much anymore but cannot recall narrow bridges with jersey barriers (a sign an older bridge is converted).
Logged

tolbs17

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 3299
  • Age: 19
  • Location: Greenville, NC
  • Last Login: Today at 09:21:00 AM
Re: Old vs new bridges
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2021, 08:26:53 PM »

Here's one on I-85 where 3 (?!?) of the 4 rails were converted - https://goo.gl/maps/AafxPCB13qDGBK9h7
There are many in Goldsboro, and check out the one in New Bern here. It was widened in the late 90s.

And I assume they widened that bridge as an emergency cause there was no deceleration lane.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2021, 08:33:36 PM by tolbs17 »
Logged

tolbs17

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 3299
  • Age: 19
  • Location: Greenville, NC
  • Last Login: Today at 09:21:00 AM
Re: Old vs new bridges
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2021, 09:02:22 PM »

Logged

Dirt Roads

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1088
  • Location: Central North Carolina
  • Last Login: October 23, 2021, 12:35:31 PM
Re: Old vs new bridges
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2021, 09:25:07 PM »

...my example from Reply #4 at Selma might be an example of resurface and convert to jersey wall - https://goo.gl/maps/mSkGGd2BzzZzQ1Tv8

Indeed.  That's the one over the NCRR that I was referencing. 
Logged

tolbs17

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 3299
  • Age: 19
  • Location: Greenville, NC
  • Last Login: Today at 09:21:00 AM
Logged

snowc

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 433
  • EPT Founder

  • Age: 20
  • Location: Harnett County NC
  • Last Login: October 22, 2021, 08:20:42 PM
    • Visit the EPT site!
Re: Old vs new bridges
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2021, 02:13:01 PM »

My gut instinct was that they're definitely not built in the '60's; they look fairly new to me.

I looked it up, and sure enough: Both the Roanoke River and US 158 bridges were built in 1999/2000, per NC's bridge inventory (see page 133).
I see. It says 1999. They must have been replaced then cause the highway opened in the 60s.

Compare it to the Dunn bridges and those haven't been replaced since then?

Yes, the Dunn bridges are original 1955 structures.

Here are some tips on figuring out this kind of question in NC...

- Original 1960s bridges on NC interstates have no shoulders at all and have the railing style like this (many covered by guard rail now) - https://goo.gl/maps/kKDP1BiQw6cBb5CVA

Could a 1960s bridge be rehabbed instead of rebuilt entirely?  The modern railing gives a hint but not the whole story...
Compare the underneath of the US 158 interchange which has modern piers - https://goo.gl/maps/mJpo9VdwrV13gVUg9
Compare the underneath at Exit 97 which has original piers, plus new piers added to get shoulders onto it - https://goo.gl/maps/mSkGGd2BzzZzQ1Tv8

On the first bridge I link way above, the surface has been rehabbed but nothing else.

The US 158 interchange used to be really dangerous northbound because the on-ramp from US 158 ended entirely before the adjacent railroad bridge and there was next to no merge area.  This has always been a very busy interchange.

For bridge dates in general:

If you want to know when a bridge was built (or rebuilt - sometimes they have original and rebuilt dates) go here - http://bridgereports.com/

If you want to know when a bridge rebuilt entirely since 2011 was built prior to replacement, go here - https://web.archive.org/web/20110501230146/http://www.uglybridges.com/
When I go under the bridge when heading on I-95 I noticed that the guardrails are not on the 421 side of the bridge
Logged
Do not assume, just ask. It's what we do. :colorful: :biggrin:

snowc

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 433
  • EPT Founder

  • Age: 20
  • Location: Harnett County NC
  • Last Login: October 22, 2021, 08:20:42 PM
    • Visit the EPT site!
Re: Old vs new bridges
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2021, 02:17:45 PM »

This my guess for the bridges in North Carolina.

1950s

1960s

1970s steel barriers

1970s brown barriers

1980s (present-day)

1990s steel barriers (1)

1990s steel barriers (2)

1990s normal barriers (the southbound bridge)

2000s

2010s I miss those red things on the bottom. compared to this which doesn't have them.

2010s This one uses the steel barriers. On a freeway. Interesting.


I have to say, I enjoy the ones with the steel barriers more. They look nicer and not so dull looking. But I'm sure it's a little more costly to build though.

Exact image over the 80s bridge you linked.
Logged
Do not assume, just ask. It's what we do. :colorful: :biggrin:

 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.