Travel Time Sign

[tdindy88]

While driving along the Borman Expressway in Northwest Indiana last Monday I noticed this blue sign along the highway that announced the travel times to different locations further down the road.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27013823@N03/4643527482/

Apologies for posting the image this way, but I'm still trying to figure out how to post the image on this board and reviewing various posts in the past have not helped.

Anyhow, I don't recall having seen this type of sign before anywhere and further research has shown that this will be the first of 40 such signs to be posted along the highways of Northwest Indiana and Indianapolis. Any thoughts on this type of signage and are there other examples elsewhere.

[agentsteel53]

and Extra Large Caps makes an appearance!  I wonder which federal specification inadvertently features that, because so many states randomly use it. 

[golden eagle]

That's my first time seeing a sign like that. I always see travel times on electronic signs.

[bugo]

There's a similar sign on US 169 south showing travel times via I-44 west and US 169 south/Creek Turnpike west.  It's an orange sign and is related to I-44 construction.  I'll have to take a picture of it while it's still up.

[myosh_tino]

Both in Los Angeles and up here in the San Francisco Bay Area, they use the changeable message signs to display travel times.  Destinations vary from cities to landmarks (airports, universities) to other highways.

Here's an example on southbound U.S. 101 in Palo Alto just after the Oregon Expwy exit...
http://www.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&ll=37.441128,-122.115033&spn=0,0.004619&t=k&z=18&layer=c&cbll=37.441194,-122.115106&panoid=kNCv5HNkkm_He_BrmXsomQ&cbp=12,151.46,,0,5

[UptownRoadGeek]

Interesting.
Here they just do it with Changeable Message Signs

[Scott5114]

Why is it blue? 

[J N Winkler]

and Extra Large Caps makes an appearance!  I wonder which federal specification inadvertently features that, because so many states randomly use it.

I think it is basically the result of misinterpreting the letter size tables in the MUTCD.  The size values for uppercase legend are based on the height of a capital letter, while those for lowercase letters are based on the loop height (basically, the height of lowercase x, or any other letter with ascenders and descenders removed from consideration).  But with modern computer fonts like Roadgeek Series E Modified, mixed-case legend is all at the same nominal size because the font comes with uppercase and lowercase letters at their correct proportions in relation to each other.

I am not aware that any recent edition of the MUTCD has had pattern-accurate illustrations with "Extra Large Uppercase."  I think the Millennium MUTCD (whose illustrations were not pattern-accurate--in fact, it was actually pretty shitty in terms of presentation) might have had illustrations with this particular problem though.

I do blame the 2002 MUTCD for misleading designers into thinking that it was no longer necessary to construct fraction rectangles correctly.  I don't think it had any illustrations with correct fraction rectangles.

[tdindy88]

I'm not sure why INDOT choose blue other than to make it stand out from other highway signs. As for the message board signs, I too have seen times listed on those type of signs in Ohio, Illinois, Tennessee, and Nevada. I suppose being displayed on its own sign allows for those message board signs to be used for strictly weather, traffic and construction information.

[bulldog1979]

MDOT has similar signs around the Grand Rapids area that show travel times to downtown Grand Rapids using the two main suggested detours while they undertake The Fix on I-196. The signs themselves are orange like other construction signs, but otherwise not to dissimilar from that Indiana example.

[Brandon]

Interesting that INDOT chose this style of sign.  IDOT usually just uses some older VMSs (and then mostly inbound only), and the ISTHA uses new VMSs that flash between the travel time and a message.

[Chris]

A Dutch travel time sign (it looks like a temporary setup) I just happen to catch today.



Do you think these are clear or not? It offers travel times for two different routes to the city of Utrecht (about 90 km or 55 miles from here via A28, a little longer via A50/A12).

[roadfro]

Why is it blue?  

My guess would be that including travel times on the sign classifies it more as a general information/service sign (which are typically blue) as opposed to a guide sign (typically green).


Nevada has been providing travel time information in the Las Vegas area for a few years now, but they use VMS's instead of a dedicated sign. They started on I-15 a few years ago, and started testing it on US 95 earlier this year.

[J N Winkler]

The 2009 MUTCD has a typical example of what it calls a "comparative travel time information sign," shown in Figure 2G-20.  The text, so far as I can tell, does not have specific provisions regarding background color, but Figure 2G-20 shows green background and I would expect that to be what is used.

I have seen travel time information signs in a number of signing contracts and I have the sign design sheets, but it is not exactly straightforward to dig out those specific sheets.  I did dig up the sheets for a recent WSDOT contract dealing with Lake Washington congestion management and there was no explicit color specification.  I assume green was used, but the plan sheets do not say one way or another.

[agentsteel53]

My guess would be that including travel times on the sign classifies it more as a general information/service sign (which are typically blue) as opposed to a guide sign (typically green).

I'm not sure if this counts as "information" in the usual blue-sign sense.  The time required to travel the distance is, in my opinion, a similar bit of knowledge to the distance itself, and therefore the sign should be green. 

[exit322]

A Dutch travel time sign (it looks like a temporary setup) I just happen to catch today.



Do you think these are clear or not? It offers travel times for two different routes to the city of Utrecht (about 90 km or 55 miles from here via A28, a little longer via A50/A12).

I really like this setup.

[Truvelo]

When I first saw this sign I thought it was showing 66 minutes to the A50/A12 exit and I wondered what the 49 minutes on the left was about. Only when I read the caption below the picture did it make sense.

I've redrawn the sign to make it look simpler. I've added via above each route to show the times are via that route and not to the route. I've also shown the sign as a Y to show the choice of route more clearly even though it's not the correct layout of the road.

[Brandon]

^^
A text VMS might be better in this instance, as we use around Chicago.  Here, we'd do the sign as follows:

UTRECHT
VIA A28        49 MIN
VIA A50/A12  66 MIN

It's even simpler, IMHO.

[Chris]

^^ That is what we usually use in the Netherlands: The blue graphical one is more like a temp sign. (as Truvelo noticed, "te huur" means for rent.)



Some indicate traffic jam length.. The only problem is most foreigners do not know what "file" means (fee-le) (traffic jam)

[Brandon]

Here's an example of one from Illinois that is similar to the examples Chris gave from the Netherlands.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=41.647759,-88.013792&spn=0,0.017982&z=17&layer=c&cbll=41.647879,-88.013812&panoid=dd0D3eNoRkbSwwlv4haMOA&cbp=12,350.4,,0,7.31

[Scott5114]

Pretty awesome how the VMSes are even set in FHWA Series. Wish we had those here.

[hm insulators]

Both in Los Angeles and up here in the San Francisco Bay Area, they use the changeable message signs to display travel times.  Destinations vary from cities to landmarks (airports, universities) to other highways.

Here's an example on southbound U.S. 101 in Palo Alto just after the Oregon Expwy exit...
http://www.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&ll=37.441128,-122.115033&spn=0,0.004619&t=k&z=18&layer=c&cbll=37.441194,-122.115106&panoid=kNCv5HNkkm_He_BrmXsomQ&cbp=12,151.46,,0,5

There's a handful of variable message signs in Phoenix, too.

[bugo]

Pretty awesome how the VMSes are even set in FHWA Series. Wish we had those here.

They would probably be in Clearview if they had something similar here.

[The Premier]

They have it in Atlanta too.

http://www.georgia-navigator.com/signs

[architect77]

raleigh, nc (near I-40, US70 East)