Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions

[Rothman]

Do any of us know what "it" is?

https://youtu.be/ZG_k5CSYKhg?si=b_hfbCvaYp0-4YLu

[formulanone]

6.  We roadgeeks are missing out on something intangible but fundamental about the world by fixating on the minutiæ of roads.  We'd all do well to try and lift our eyes up from the pavement and the retroreflective sheeting and start seeing the forest for the trees.  Those around us probably have a better perspective on the world than we have, and we don't realize it.

If there's anything close to a unified law of life; it's impossible to focus on everything; for everything we give attention to, there's always the potential for something else to go somewhat unnoticed. Our personal knowledge and memory is forged by the emotion of the moment, not stored away like a computer or file cabinet for retrieval.

As there is a conservation of energy, economic law of opportunity cost, a sense of personal well-being, one can only sample and absorb so much of life in general and there's always going to be areas of the personally undiscovered which naturally occur in the blind spots of our activities. With the exception of our highest necessities, any hobby is an escape from something else. Yet there's no metric nor sense in saying that any harmless side interest is any less important than another, if it brings a personal sense of joy and accomplishment.

[US20IL64]

One for this site, I think there is a limit to how wide a highway can be, especially in urban areas. Don't like city traffic? Take a bus/subway, or stay in.   

[paulthemapguy]

One for this site, I think there is a limit to how wide a highway can be, especially in urban areas. Don't like city traffic? Take a bus/subway, or stay in.   

People really do need to learn that there is more than one mode of passenger transportation besides the automobile.  Agreed.  And reality provides its own constraints to the width of a ROW regardless of how any of us feels about it.

Unpopular opinion from me: Wisconsin should have single-digit state highways.  WI-35 should be WI-1. 

[zachary_amaryllis]

Programmers have been arguing about minutiæ like the proper way to indent code and whether object-oriented or procedural programming style is better since the 1980s. I wouldn't expect most roadgeeks to have an opinion on those unless they're also programmers. Yet they really matter to those who have to live with the fallout from those decisions.

It boggles my mind, that it seems like no two people, anywhere, can agree on how to write the date.

[kurumi]

Programmers have been arguing about minutiæ like the proper way to indent code and whether object-oriented or procedural programming style is better since the 1980s. I wouldn't expect most roadgeeks to have an opinion on those unless they're also programmers. Yet they really matter to those who have to live with the fallout from those decisions.

It boggles my mind, that it seems like no two people, anywhere, can agree on how to write the date.

Join the dark side (ISO-8601). 2023-11-13. It collates well in directory listings, spreadsheets, database queries, and more.

[Quillz]

One for this site, I think there is a limit to how wide a highway can be, especially in urban areas. Don't like city traffic? Take a bus/subway, or stay in.   

People really do need to learn that there is more than one mode of passenger transportation besides the automobile.  Agreed.  And reality provides its own constraints to the width of a ROW regardless of how any of us feels about it.

Unpopular opinion from me: Wisconsin should have single-digit state highways.  WI-35 should be WI-1. 

Just spent the weekend at Mammoth Lakes, and was pleasantly surprised that I didn't need my car the entire day. Left it in the parking garage at the hotel. Everything else was a short walk away, then took a bus to the slopes that runs every 20 minutes. I'm sure it's been like this for a long time, but every time I've been there in the past, always drove to the ski area's parking lot. Combined with lots of local walking trails, really impressed how walkable the whole experience was.

Problem is, that's the ideal scenario. It's just not practical in so many places. I used to take the bus to my university, but the time between buses was often close to an hour, and the buses never seemed to follow their own schedules and wait like they should, so they'd usually just blow right past the stops, and of course I'd miss them and then be late to my classes. Or they'd drop me off a mile from my house and I had to walk. So I had no practical choice but to get a car and drive everywhere. The scenario hasn't really improved in all those years, sadly.

[zachary_amaryllis]

Programmers have been arguing about minutiæ like the proper way to indent code and whether object-oriented or procedural programming style is better since the 1980s. I wouldn't expect most roadgeeks to have an opinion on those unless they're also programmers. Yet they really matter to those who have to live with the fallout from those decisions.

It boggles my mind, that it seems like no two people, anywhere, can agree on how to write the date.

Join the dark side (ISO-8601). 2023-11-13. It collates well in directory listings, spreadsheets, database queries, and more.

This is my own preferred method. I convert everything to this, for the exact reasons you mentioned.

[Some one]

One for this site, I think there is a limit to how wide a highway can be, especially in urban areas. Don't like city traffic? Take a bus/subway, or stay in.   

People really do need to learn that there is more than one mode of passenger transportation besides the automobile.  Agreed.  And reality provides its own constraints to the width of a ROW regardless of how any of us feels about it.

Unpopular opinion from me: Wisconsin should have single-digit state highways.  WI-35 should be WI-1. 

Agreed. I know this is a pro-road forum but it's annoying how pissy some people on this forum get at the idea of some people being against an urban highway (or widening of an urban highway) or wanting an alternative to driving.

[tmoore952]

...

2.  Stop paying attention to the price of gas.  You're just going to buy it anyway.  Most days, if you ask me how much gas is around here, I don't know.

...

A counterargument: Focusing on the relative price of gas at stations around where you live is a worthwhile and sensible thing to do because it can be easy to save a decent amount of money without going very far out of your way. Let me give an example. If I head from my neighborhood towards the Beltway, I can go left and hit five gas stations (two Shells, a Liberty, a BP, and an Amerigo) about three-quarters of a mile down the road, or I can go right and hit three gas stations (a Liberty, a Sunoco, and a Shell) about a quarter-mile down the road. Despite those stations' proximity, the three stations located to the right are typically 50¢ a gallon cheaper (sometimes more) than the five stations located to the left. The difference is even more stark if I head into the City of Alexandria—there's an Exxon station that's typically close to a dollar a gallon more. In those circumstances, I think it makes eminent sense to focus on which stations to use, even recognizing that I typically fill my gas tank once every two months or so such that saving $7.50 on a 15-gallon fillup doesn't necessarily add up to all that much over time (though I suppose if I fill up six times in one year, saving an average of $7.50 a fillup adds up to $45, which is close enough to another tank of gas).

In the paragraph above, I italicized the word "relative" to emphasize that my point is not to know the exact price of gas at any given moment. I couldn't tell you how much gas costs at any of those stations right now. But I can tell you with some reasonable confidence (based on living in this house for 22 years) that the three stations to the right will be significantly cheaper than the five stations to the left.

I am pressed enough for time, that I take that into consideration when buying gas. Where I am, in my town, gas can be about 25 cents a gallon more expensive than the next town down (south). So yes, that will mean paying 4 dollars extra if I get 16 gallons. But traveling to the next town and back, with the usually badly timed lights in between, costs me about 45 minutes. I consider paying the extra 4 dollars an even exchange for 45 minutes of time.

My attitude would be different about this if I had many years left to work.

[tmoore952]

Programmers have been arguing about minutiæ like the proper way to indent code and whether object-oriented or procedural programming style is better since the 1980s. I wouldn't expect most roadgeeks to have an opinion on those unless they're also programmers. Yet they really matter to those who have to live with the fallout from those decisions.

As an engineer who either (1) does write programs from time to time or (2) more often, steps through programs to trace calculations, it is very nice when code is indented for loops, and especially when there are multiple loops (could be many). Comments next to "end" statements as to which loop is being terminated also are very helpful. I know some programs will show you (by way of lines) the starts and ends of loops, but I find that too many lines on the screen is a distraction.

[Max Rockatansky]

One for this site, I think there is a limit to how wide a highway can be, especially in urban areas. Don't like city traffic? Take a bus/subway, or stay in.   

People really do need to learn that there is more than one mode of passenger transportation besides the automobile.  Agreed.  And reality provides its own constraints to the width of a ROW regardless of how any of us feels about it.

Unpopular opinion from me: Wisconsin should have single-digit state highways.  WI-35 should be WI-1. 

Agreed. I know this is a pro-road forum but it's annoying how pissy some people on this forum get at the idea of some people being against an urban highway (or widening of an urban highway) or wanting an alternative to driving.

Speaking for myself, the page I co-run has had numerous run-ins with antagonistic urbanists. To be clear, I have zero issue with additional transportation alternatives.  I occasionally even post stuff about transportation topics (like the California High Speed Rail) despite our page being highway centric.  I do have an issue with advocates of a certain non-car centric lifestyle baselessly accusing our page of promoting the toxicity of car culture.

Worth noting, GN is mostly a history oriented page.  The bulk of what I contribute tends to be rural highway topics.

[pderocco]

There's a certain basic topological reality: there's no such thing as a mode of mass transit that goes from everywhere to everywhere else. Even in our densest city, New York, many people still rely on automobiles for transportation; they're just called taxis, and they only eliminate the problem of parking by spending the time they're not carrying passengers driving around looking for passengers to carry. But in many situations they still work better than the alternatives, for those who can afford them.

[kphoger]

I know this is a pro-road forum but it's annoying how pissy some people on this forum get at the idea of some people being against an urban highway (or widening of an urban highway) or wanting an alternative to driving.

1.  I don't consider this forum's core identity to be pro-road.  It's a forum about roads, therefore its participants should hopefully have an interest in roads—but that doesn't necessarily imply they're pro- roads.  I, for one, don't really consider myself to be pro- or anti- roads:  I'm interested in the roads that exist, I have a mild interest in their history, and I have a limited interest in projects in specific regions—but I very rarely have any strong opinion about whether any given project should be promoted or axed, or whatever.  Other people on the forum seem to be keenly interested in signage, route numbering, clinching, maps, etc, but none of that actually tells you what they think about the value of roads in general.

2.  Being pro-road...

  a.  ...doesn't mean you have to be anti- transit.  Other than a few hardcore car-onlyists, most forum members value both, although just how much they value each one will vary from person to person.

  b.  ...doesn't mean you have to be pro- every road.  It's perfectly reasonable to be pro-roads in general but still oppose a specific project, design, trend, etc.

3.  Being pro-transit...

  a.  ...doesn't mean you have to be anti-road.  See above.  Again, though, specific beliefs and values will vary from to person to person, so someone's getting pissy "at the idea of some people being against an urban highway (or widening of an urban highway)" doesn't necessarily mean that someone is anti-transit:  he might just be pro- that urban highway, or he might be pro- urban highways and urban transit.

  b.  ...doesn't mean you have to be pro- every mode of transit, nor pro- transit in every situation.  It's perfectly reasonable to love trains and hate buses, or vice versa, or to think light rail would be great in one city but not in another.

[Rothman]

I know this is a pro-road forum but it's annoying how pissy some people on this forum get at the idea of some people being against an urban highway (or widening of an urban highway) or wanting an alternative to driving.

1.  I don't consider this forum's core identity to be pro-road.  It's a forum about roads, therefore its participants should hopefully have an interest in roads—but that doesn't necessarily imply they're pro- roads.  I, for one, don't really consider myself to be pro- or anti- roads:  I'm interested in the roads that exist, I have a mild interest in their history, and I have a limited interest in projects in specific regions—but I very rarely have any strong opinion about whether any given project should be promoted or axed, or whatever.  Other people on the forum seem to be keenly interested in signage, route numbering, clinching, maps, etc, but none of that actually tells you what they think about the value of roads in general.

2.  Being pro-road...

  a.  ...doesn't mean you have to be anti- transit.  Other than a few hardcore car-onlyists, most forum members value both, although just how much they value each one will vary from person to person.

  b.  ...doesn't mean you have to be pro- every road.  It's perfectly reasonable to be pro-roads in general but still oppose a specific project, design, trend, etc.

3.  Being pro-transit...

  a.  ...doesn't mean you have to be anti-road.  See above.  Again, though, specific beliefs and values will vary from to person to person, so someone's getting pissy "at the idea of some people being against an urban highway (or widening of an urban highway)" doesn't necessarily mean that someone is anti-transit:  he might just be pro- that urban highway, or he might be pro- urban highways and urban transit.

  b.  ...doesn't mean you have to be pro- every mode of transit, nor pro- transit in every situation.  It's perfectly reasonable to love trains and hate buses, or vice versa, or to think light rail would be great in one city but not in another.

How woke.

[1995hoo]

...

2.  Stop paying attention to the price of gas.  You're just going to buy it anyway.  Most days, if you ask me how much gas is around here, I don't know.

...

A counterargument: Focusing on the relative price of gas at stations around where you live is a worthwhile and sensible thing to do because it can be easy to save a decent amount of money without going very far out of your way. Let me give an example. If I head from my neighborhood towards the Beltway, I can go left and hit five gas stations (two Shells, a Liberty, a BP, and an Amerigo) about three-quarters of a mile down the road, or I can go right and hit three gas stations (a Liberty, a Sunoco, and a Shell) about a quarter-mile down the road. Despite those stations' proximity, the three stations located to the right are typically 50¢ a gallon cheaper (sometimes more) than the five stations located to the left. The difference is even more stark if I head into the City of Alexandria—there's an Exxon station that's typically close to a dollar a gallon more. In those circumstances, I think it makes eminent sense to focus on which stations to use, even recognizing that I typically fill my gas tank once every two months or so such that saving $7.50 on a 15-gallon fillup doesn't necessarily add up to all that much over time (though I suppose if I fill up six times in one year, saving an average of $7.50 a fillup adds up to $45, which is close enough to another tank of gas).

In the paragraph above, I italicized the word "relative" to emphasize that my point is not to know the exact price of gas at any given moment. I couldn't tell you how much gas costs at any of those stations right now. But I can tell you with some reasonable confidence (based on living in this house for 22 years) that the three stations to the right will be significantly cheaper than the five stations to the left.

I am pressed enough for time, that I take that into consideration when buying gas. Where I am, in my town, gas can be about 25 cents a gallon more expensive than the next town down (south). So yes, that will mean paying 4 dollars extra if I get 16 gallons. But traveling to the next town and back, with the usually badly timed lights in between, costs me about 45 minutes. I consider paying the extra 4 dollars an even exchange for 45 minutes of time.

My attitude would be different about this if I had many years left to work.

Of course, plus there is the consideration of how much gas you would use driving the extra distance. Gas used to be considerably cheaper if I drove down to Prince William County and went to the Sunoco on Route 123 near Occoquan. But the roundtrip drive was far enough that I'd use enough gas to eat up any savings I might have realized, so it didn't make sense to go down there just to buy gas. If, of course, I had another reason for being down there—for example, there used to be a nice golf course near that gas station that my wife and I enjoyed playing—then that would be a different matter. Take note of the geographical context and distances cited in my post that you quoted.

[Quillz]

One for this site, I think there is a limit to how wide a highway can be, especially in urban areas. Don't like city traffic? Take a bus/subway, or stay in.   

People really do need to learn that there is more than one mode of passenger transportation besides the automobile.  Agreed.  And reality provides its own constraints to the width of a ROW regardless of how any of us feels about it.

Unpopular opinion from me: Wisconsin should have single-digit state highways.  WI-35 should be WI-1. 

Agreed. I know this is a pro-road forum but it's annoying how pissy some people on this forum get at the idea of some people being against an urban highway (or widening of an urban highway) or wanting an alternative to driving.

I suspect many of the overtly pro-freeway people here had the luxury of their neighborhood not being displaced by one.

[algorerhythms]

Programmers have been arguing about minutiæ like the proper way to indent code and whether object-oriented or procedural programming style is better since the 1980s. I wouldn't expect most roadgeeks to have an opinion on those unless they're also programmers. Yet they really matter to those who have to live with the fallout from those decisions.

It boggles my mind, that it seems like no two people, anywhere, can agree on how to write the date.

I once accidentally signed up for an apartment lease that started December 1 thinking it was January 12, because they wrote the date 1/12 instead of 12/1. (Luckily, they were reasonable about it and found me another unit that was available in January so I wouldn't have to pay the extra month)

[Some one]

One for this site, I think there is a limit to how wide a highway can be, especially in urban areas. Don't like city traffic? Take a bus/subway, or stay in.   

People really do need to learn that there is more than one mode of passenger transportation besides the automobile.  Agreed.  And reality provides its own constraints to the width of a ROW regardless of how any of us feels about it.

Unpopular opinion from me: Wisconsin should have single-digit state highways.  WI-35 should be WI-1. 

Agreed. I know this is a pro-road forum but it's annoying how pissy some people on this forum get at the idea of some people being against an urban highway (or widening of an urban highway) or wanting an alternative to driving.

Speaking for myself, the page I co-run has had numerous run-ins with antagonistic urbanists. To be clear, I have zero issue with additional transportation alternatives.  I occasionally even post stuff about transportation topics (like the California High Speed Rail) despite our page being highway centric.  I do have an issue with advocates of a certain non-car centric lifestyle baselessly accusing our page of promoting the toxicity of car culture.

Worth noting, GN is mostly a history oriented page.  The bulk of what I contribute tends to be rural highway topics.

That I agree with. I don't like how urbanists assume that we are crazy car people and not that we just simply have a fascination for roadways.

I know this is a pro-road forum but it's annoying how pissy some people on this forum get at the idea of some people being against an urban highway (or widening of an urban highway) or wanting an alternative to driving.

1.  I don't consider this forum's core identity to be pro-road.  It's a forum about roads, therefore its participants should hopefully have an interest in roads—but that doesn't necessarily imply they're pro- roads.  I, for one, don't really consider myself to be pro- or anti- roads:  I'm interested in the roads that exist, I have a mild interest in their history, and I have a limited interest in projects in specific regions—but I very rarely have any strong opinion about whether any given project should be promoted or axed, or whatever.  Other people on the forum seem to be keenly interested in signage, route numbering, clinching, maps, etc, but none of that actually tells you what they think about the value of roads in general.

2.  Being pro-road...

  a.  ...doesn't mean you have to be anti- transit.  Other than a few hardcore car-onlyists, most forum members value both, although just how much they value each one will vary from person to person.

  b.  ...doesn't mean you have to be pro- every road.  It's perfectly reasonable to be pro-roads in general but still oppose a specific project, design, trend, etc.

3.  Being pro-transit...

  a.  ...doesn't mean you have to be anti-road.  See above.  Again, though, specific beliefs and values will vary from to person to person, so someone's getting pissy "at the idea of some people being against an urban highway (or widening of an urban highway)" doesn't necessarily mean that someone is anti-transit:  he might just be pro- that urban highway, or he might be pro- urban highways and urban transit.

  b.  ...doesn't mean you have to be pro- every mode of transit, nor pro- transit in every situation.  It's perfectly reasonable to love trains and hate buses, or vice versa, or to think light rail would be great in one city but not in another.

Well said. I do agree with the points you made. I consider myself a roadgeek because I am fascinated by the roads, their signage, their routing and number, their interchanges, their history, etc. but that also doesn't mean I'm pro-road or anti-transit. I think that urban freeways should've bypassed the city center rather than go through it and I'm for tunneling it, capping it, or even removing it in some places where it won't have much impact. I'm also in favor of multimodal transportation where it works, and even moving away from car dependency. For the record, I do think it's silly to believe that all cars and roads will suddenly go away, and I'm not for forcing people to rely solely on cars or transit. Even some of the densest cities still have some car usage. I just hate how often some people on the forum (a vocal minority) fearmonger about the urbanists who believe that we should remove all cars and roads (who are also a vocal minority) or dismiss the concerns of those who have/will be displaced by urban highways (or widening).

You are also right that it's not fair of me to make assumptions on someone based on their stances on (urban) highways or transit.

One for this site, I think there is a limit to how wide a highway can be, especially in urban areas. Don't like city traffic? Take a bus/subway, or stay in.   

People really do need to learn that there is more than one mode of passenger transportation besides the automobile.  Agreed.  And reality provides its own constraints to the width of a ROW regardless of how any of us feels about it.

Unpopular opinion from me: Wisconsin should have single-digit state highways.  WI-35 should be WI-1. 

Agreed. I know this is a pro-road forum but it's annoying how pissy some people on this forum get at the idea of some people being against an urban highway (or widening of an urban highway) or wanting an alternative to driving.

I suspect many of the overtly pro-freeway people here had the luxury of their neighborhood not being displaced by one.

^

[Scott5114]

I've said before that a wise roadgeek would see the value in funding transit improvements—the more people there are on the bus, the less traffic there is on the roads you want to check out!

[RobbieL2415]

Why do drivers lean to the right when they're driving? I see many, particularly Boomer-aged, drivers who's heads are practically in line with the center console of their vehicle.
Doesn't that cause neck strain or something?

[freebrickproductions]

I've said before that a wise roadgeek would see the value in funding transit improvements—the more people there are on the bus, the less traffic there is on the roads you want to check out!

This. Even with those of us who like driving, being stuck in/as traffic for things like around-town errands/commuting ain't the most fun. There are things worse than having to take a bus and/or train to do your shopping/commute to work.

[kphoger]

Why do drivers lean to the right when they're driving? I see many, particularly Boomer-aged, drivers who's heads are practically in line with the center console of their vehicle.
Doesn't that cause neck strain or something?

Is that an upopular opinion?

[Molandfreak]

I don't know why it's such a popular opinion on here that US 400 "adds nothing" to the system, because it does add something. Improving east-west connectivity for a metro area with over 500,000 people is a good enough justification to slap a US highway shield on it IMO. If it's just because it barely enters another state, US 166 is also right there, but that highway mysteriously doesn't get any forum-wide calls to decommission it.

[Max Rockatansky]

I don't know why it's such a popular opinion on here that US 400 "adds nothing" to the system, because it does add something. Improving east-west connectivity for a metro area with over 500,000 people is a good enough justification to slap a US highway shield on it IMO. If it's just because it barely enters another state, US 166 is also right there, but that highway mysteriously doesn't get any forum-wide calls to decommission it.

Grid perfectionism is a horrible disease that has ravaged the road fan community since time and memorial.