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US 412 between Dyersburg and Jackson, TN: Is there another highway like it?

Started by Tom958, June 19, 2021, 08:03:27 AM

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Tom958

It started life as a new terrain, free access two-lane highway built in the late 1950s as TN 20, from outside Jackson to what's now TN 210 southeast of Dyersburg. It was designated as US 412 starting in 1982, extended as an expressway/freeway to US 51-I-155 in the mid '80s, and dualized in the early '90's. I've never been on it, and I assumed it was just a normal, boring four-lane divided highway. It's not though. Not at all.

In its 42 mile length, there are thirteen interchanges. Seven are of normal design, built on that mid-'80s extension or on segments that were relocated instead of widened in situ in the early '90s. Five of them are decidedly unorthodox; here are all five of them. There's also this remnant from the late '50s build. To round things out, there are two r-cuts. As a result of this, there are no traffic signals on the corridor except for one (not two, as yet) at its folded diamond interchange with I-40. When I posted about this highway in a closed Facebook group, one poster said that that there were in fact traffic lights, but then he walked it back, saying that the ones he remembered were now gone. If that's true, it would be pretty astounding. I can't find any confirmation on Streetview, though.

On top of all of this, except for on the '80s northwestern extension and the '90s Alamo bypass, there are no restrictions on access and quite a lot of roadside development, including this well-used McDonalds-gas station-c store infuriatingly located in the middle of an interchange, and with its own median cut! On the contrary, a 3.6 mile relocated section near Jackson, where suburban sprawl is most likely, has speculative median breaks every quarter mile. WTF?

All in all, it's kind of a rural version of a Jersey freeway, though its 46-foot median and agency policy place no restrictions on left turns.

So, is there another highway like this anywhere? Do you like it? Would you like to see highways like this in your state? And, will you be able to restrain yourself from mentally drawing in a small-footprint interchange like these whenever you encounter a traffic signal on a well-traveled rural highway? I won't.  :-/


bugo

I don't understand what is so unique about this road. It just looks to me like an expressway that was built as cheaply as possible, and instead of building proper interchanges, they built primitive interchanges that are not much more than short connector roads. There are lots of cheap interchanges in the country. What's special about this road?

If you want to see an interesting road, look up Bannister Road (Missouri Route W) in Kansas City. It is a bizarre mix between a freeway and an expressway, with really cheap grade separations. Head west from here.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9547013,-94.5431458,461m/data=!3m1!1e3

Tom958

Quote from: bugo on June 19, 2021, 08:49:12 AM
I don't understand what is so unique about this road. It just looks to me like an expressway that was built as cheaply as possible, and instead of building proper interchanges, they built primitive interchanges that are not much more than short connector roads. There are lots of cheap interchanges in the country. What's special about this road?

What's special, as far as I know, is the comprehensiveness with which signals were made unnecessary throughout the entire corridor, and how it incorporates a preexisting two-lane highway. Tennessee and some other states have new-terrain expressways with interchanges and the occasional traffic light, and, as you pointed out, isolated interchanges on non-freeways aren't that unusual. But doing it systematically throughout an entire corridor is something I haven't seen elsewhere.

sprjus4

US-77/59 between Refugio and Houston is a free-flowing expressway without traffic signals and various interchanges scattered throughout for 200 miles. Then it ties into I-69 and traverses the Houston metro south to north. Once bypasses are constructed around Refugio and Odem, this free-flow expressway would continue to I-37 and then Corpus Christi.

US-50/US-301 between Washington DC and Middletown, DE (at DE-1) is also a free flowing expressway, freeway design on the southern end until the US-50 split, then expressway north of there. This highway, however, is mostly on limited access right of way but has various intersections. Unlike the OP, and the above example, is not uncontrolled access.

CA-58 between CA-99 and I-15 also now meets this description with the completion of the Kramer Junction bypass.

There are numerous examples of these expressway type roadways that feature free flow with interchanges, but also uncontrolled access. Then in some urban areas, you have jersey freeways, which are urban arterials without access control, but have no median breaks and tight interchange designs and overpasses every mile or so. A mix between a true freeway design and an standard arterial. It has a higher capacity than a standard arterial, obviously, due to lack of interruptions (signals) and is used where right of way would be expensive to purchase.

Dirt Roads

Quote from: bugo on June 19, 2021, 08:49:12 AM
I don't understand what is so unique about this road. It just looks to me like an expressway that was built as cheaply as possible, and instead of building proper interchanges, they built primitive interchanges that are not much more than short connector roads. There are lots of cheap interchanges in the country. What's special about this road?

Quote from: Tom958 on June 19, 2021, 09:07:28 AM
What's special, as far as I know, is the comprehensiveness with which signals were made unnecessary throughout the entire corridor, and how it incorporates a preexisting two-lane highway. Tennessee and some other states have new-terrain expressways with interchanges and the occasional traffic light, and, as you pointed out, isolated interchanges on non-freeways aren't that unusual. But doing it systematically throughout an entire corridor is something I haven't seen elsewhere.

Seems to me that much of the Appalachian Regional Corridor (ARC) system was constructed with this philosophy, but the unrestricted development that came along behind was easier to solve with traffic signals than highway improvements.  NCDOT hates traffic signals in close proximity to each other, so the Superstreet efforts here seem to be working backwards towards the same goal.

Crown Victoria


Tom958

Quote from: sprjus4 on June 19, 2021, 09:18:46 AM
US-77/59 between Refugio and Houston is a free-flowing expressway without traffic signals and various interchanges scattered throughout for 200 miles. Then it ties into I-69 and traverses the Houston metro south to north. Once bypasses are constructed around Refugio and Odem, this free-flow expressway would continue to I-37 and then Corpus Christi.

CA-58 between CA-99 and I-15 also now meets this description with the completion of the Kramer Junction bypass.

That's the kind of thing I'm looking for, though my cursory inspection doesn't reveal the egregiously substandard interchanges found on that part of US 412. Both appear to be in the process of being upgraded to full freeway, though not necessarily at a rapid pace. Plus, the one in Texas has the whole frontage road culture to deal with access control issues.

QuoteUS-50/US-301 between Washington DC and Middletown, DE (at DE-1) is also a free flowing expressway, freeway design on the southern end until the US-50 split, then expressway north of there. This highway, however, is mostly on limited access right of way but has various intersections. Unlike the OP, and the above example, is not uncontrolled access.

Yeah, the limited access is a killer, but it does have a few substandard interchanges and plenty of r-cuts to stave off signalization.

QuoteThere are numerous examples of these expressway type roadways that feature free flow with interchanges, but also uncontrolled access. Then in some urban areas, you have jersey freeways, which are urban arterials without access control, but have no median breaks and tight interchange designs and overpasses every mile or so. A mix between a true freeway design and a standard arterial. It has a higher capacity than a standard arterial, obviously, due to lack of interruptions (signals) and is used where right of way would be expensive to purchase.

Yes, I mentioned in the OP that the highway in question was like a rural version of a Jersey freeway. The big difference is the presence or lack of restrictions on left turns, though I think that with Jersey freeways, that's mainly due to a chronic lack of median width to accommodate left turn pockets.

thspfc

The only unique thing I noticed is how some of the off and on ramps have residential driveways.

Tom958

Quote from: Dirt Roads on June 19, 2021, 09:33:34 AMSeems to me that much of the Appalachian Regional Corridor (ARC) system was constructed with this philosophy, but the unrestricted development that came along behind was easier to solve with traffic signals than highway improvements.  NCDOT hates traffic signals in close proximity to each other, so the Superstreet efforts here seem to be working backwards towards the same goal.

As a younger roadgeek, I was appalled to learn that, to at least some agencies, maintaining free flow of traffic wasn't a primary consideration. I thought that "developmental highways" meant ones that would redraw the time-and-distance map in favor of access-challenged areas, but much of the real intent was to encourage rural sprawl. And, indeed, much of Appalachia has a chronic shortage of buildable land due to the terrain.

What I'm saying is that the proliferation of traffic lights and driveways is often regarded as a feature, not a bug.

froggie

If I understand the OP correctly, then US 52 between St. Paul and Rochester, MN fits the bill.  Largely 1960s dualization with a few town bypasses.  Original Lafayette Freeway (north of I-494) constructed in the 1970s.  Extension of the freeway down to MN 55 West in 1995 completed the 4-lane corridor.  At one point, there were 4 signals along the corridor (2 in Cannon Falls, 1 in Coates, 1 along the 52/55 concurrency), but over the past 20 years all four signals were replaced by interchanges, with a small smattering of other interchanges also built, plus the full freeway reconstruction in Rochester and adjacent parts of Olmsted County.

While the long-term vision for the corridor is for a full freeway, MnDOT has recently started replacing the more crash-prone intersections with R-cuts, particularly in rural Dakota County.

sprjus4

Quote from: Tom958 on June 19, 2021, 09:57:15 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 19, 2021, 09:18:46 AM
US-77/59 between Refugio and Houston is a free-flowing expressway without traffic signals and various interchanges scattered throughout for 200 miles. Then it ties into I-69 and traverses the Houston metro south to north. Once bypasses are constructed around Refugio and Odem, this free-flow expressway would continue to I-37 and then Corpus Christi.

CA-58 between CA-99 and I-15 also now meets this description with the completion of the Kramer Junction bypass.

That's the kind of thing I'm looking for, though my cursory inspection doesn't reveal the egregiously substandard interchanges found on that part of US 412. Both appear to be in the process of being upgraded to full freeway, though not necessarily at a rapid pace. Plus, the one in Texas has the whole frontage road culture to deal with access control issues.

QuoteUS-50/US-301 between Washington DC and Middletown, DE (at DE-1) is also a free flowing expressway, freeway design on the southern end until the US-50 split, then expressway north of there. This highway, however, is mostly on limited access right of way but has various intersections. Unlike the OP, and the above example, is not uncontrolled access.

Yeah, the limited access is a killer, but it does have a few substandard interchanges and plenty of r-cuts to stave off signalization.

QuoteThere are numerous examples of these expressway type roadways that feature free flow with interchanges, but also uncontrolled access. Then in some urban areas, you have jersey freeways, which are urban arterials without access control, but have no median breaks and tight interchange designs and overpasses every mile or so. A mix between a true freeway design and a standard arterial. It has a higher capacity than a standard arterial, obviously, due to lack of interruptions (signals) and is used where right of way would be expensive to purchase.

Yes, I mentioned in the OP that the highway in question was like a rural version of a Jersey freeway. The big difference is the presence or lack of restrictions on left turns, though I think that with Jersey freeways, that's mainly due to a chronic lack of median width to accommodate left turn pockets.
Regarding Jersey freeways, those corridors are often are carrying heavy volumes of traffic, often moving at 50-70 mph (regardless of speed limit), and having left turns would simply be dangerous. The right turns are already bad enough. They're effectively substandard freeways.

index

Quote from: thspfc on June 19, 2021, 10:02:03 AM
The only unique thing I noticed is how some of the off and on ramps have residential driveways.


Try an entire intersection, plus driveways:

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.9996742,-80.5481443,3a,60y,3.55h,83.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZz1fMkpEwaY7sPkVHwIB_w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

This is designated as a street but ever since it was converted when that interchange was built, it obviously functions as a pair of on and off-ramps as well now. And you also have a driveway where it's only a ramp.
I love my 2010 Ford Explorer.



Counties traveled

hbelkins

I drove a pretty good chunk of 412, if not all of it (can't remember for sure) several years ago and really don't remember a whole lot special about it.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

jakeroot

From the links in the OP, it reminds me a lot of a British A-Road that has been half upgraded to motorway status.

The newer portions of US-412 are a bit like the A1(M) from South Mimms to Letchworth: proper ramps and acceleration/deceleration lanes, and no unusual bits like driveways.
The older (and cheaper!) portions of US-412 are more like the A1 north of Letchworth: janky ramps, very short acceleration/deceleration lanes, tied into older road network, at-grade junctions, etc.

Both setups have their place. Although objectively, yes, proper interchanges are better than a bunch of RIROs and awkward ramps, the latter can usually still improve upon 'nothing'.

Tom958

Quote from: froggie on June 19, 2021, 08:15:03 PM
If I understand the OP correctly, then US 52 between St. Paul and Rochester, MN fits the bill.  Largely 1960s dualization with a few town bypasses.  Original Lafayette Freeway (north of I-494) constructed in the 1970s.  Extension of the freeway down to MN 55 West in 1995 completed the 4-lane corridor.  At one point, there were 4 signals along the corridor (2 in Cannon Falls, 1 in Coates, 1 along the 52/55 concurrency), but over the past 20 years all four signals were replaced by interchanges, with a small smattering of other interchanges also built, plus the full freeway reconstruction in Rochester and adjacent parts of Olmsted County.

While the long-term vision for the corridor is for a full freeway, MnDOT has recently started replacing the more crash-prone intersections with R-cuts, particularly in rural Dakota County.

A respectable entry, but it's a great deal neater than the Tennessee example. It has quite a few farm driveways, but no commercial access that I saw, and much of it is served by frontage roads. In contrast, this larger view of the McDonalds-within-the-interchange area shows commercial development dotting both sides of the highway, and there aren't any frontage roads anywhere in the corridor. A bit further east we see more low-type commercial uses near at intersection and subdivision-type houses along the highway. In fairness, the houses appear to predate the '90s dualization, but it wouldn't have been that heavy of a lift to provide a frontage road to serve them. Instead, TDOT went for median cuts every quarter of a mile. Remember, too, that they did the same on the new terrain four lane section near Jackson.

On the plus side, the Minnesota example does feature some substandard interchanges, with ramps signed for 20 mph. However, to combat tl;dr, I didn't mention that their counterparts in Tennessee not only have lower design speeds, but don't have proper ramp terminals or even accel or decel lanes. The entries are dead yields and the exits require traffic to slow to turning speed in the traffic lane or maybe on the shoulder, as would be done at unsignalized intersections.

I'm starting to think this thing actually is unique. 

Tom958

Quote from: jakeroot on June 19, 2021, 10:11:40 PM
From the links in the OP, it reminds me a lot of a British A-Road that has been half upgraded to motorway status.

The newer portions of US-412 are a bit like the A1(M) from South Mimms to Letchworth: proper ramps and acceleration/deceleration lanes, and no unusual bits like driveways.
The older (and cheaper!) portions of US-412 are more like the A1 north of Letchworth: janky ramps, very short acceleration/deceleration lanes, tied into older road network, at-grade junctions, etc.

Both setups have their place. Although objectively, yes, proper interchanges are better than a bunch of RIROs and awkward ramps, the latter can usually still improve upon 'nothing'.

That's a very perceptive observation. It was in the back of my mind, too, though I decided not to mention it because of the tl;dr factor. The philosophy over there seems to be that any rural highway that warrants four lanes also warrants some degree of grade separation and limits on access, with wide medians and generous clear zones being a far lower priority. That leads to bridge designs that are a great deal more economical than our own. On the contrary, the usual practice seems to be to close off the median and require u-turns to access roadside properties and low-volume side roads, with some sort of grade-separated crossing provided every two miles or so. That is definitely not what TDOT was going for here.

The kind of fortyish-foot median rural divided highways we have in the US are rare in the UK and indeed in Europe at large, and that's essentially what this section of US 412 still is.

Tom958

Quote from: index on June 19, 2021, 09:50:04 PMTry an entire intersection, plus driveways:
This t
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.9996742,-80.5481443,3a,60y,3.55h,83.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZz1fMkpEwaY7sPkVHwIB_w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

This is designated as a street but ever since it was converted when that interchange was built, it obviously functions as a pair of on and off-ramps as well now. And you also have a driveway where it's only a ramp.

Some Jersey freeway action in North Carolina. I'm surprised that I didn't know about this. This type of thing is fairly common in the northeast. My Facebook post about this included a qualifier: "Ever seen an interchange with houses on the ramps? Maybe, but not one that was built in the 1990s." This one looks like mid '60s. Actually, this one in Fayetteville wasn't built until 1980.

ATTENTION: While I'm replying "no, it's not" to everything so far, it's clear to me that everyone who's offered an example has done so in good faith, and I appreciate it.  :clap:

sprjus4

US-74 southeast of Downtown Charlotte is partially and actively being converted into a Jersey freeway design.

Tom958

A very reasonable comparison could be made with US 72 from Scottsboro, AL to South Pittsburg, TN. Like that section of US 412, it has interchanges at every state highway it crosses (none of which are substandard), and substantial portions are dualized legacy highway. However, there are several well-used traffic signal, most serving commercial areas that are close to towns and infuriatingly close to interchanges. It would've been simple enough to make the new-terrain sections near Scottsboro and Stevenson controlled access and force Walmart and Bruce's Foodland to build at interchanges, but they won't do so unless they're required to, I presume because the stores are more visible and accessible if they're directly on the main highway.

The real test of TDOT's approach on 412 will come if and when Walmart or a grocery store chain decides to build in the area. The granting of a median cut for that McDonald's isn't encouraging.

Avalanchez71

Is the uniqueness of SR 20/US 412 the fact that of the lack of traffic signals?  This was built during the time that the political clout was high for this area.  They are building additional four lane sections of US 412 but they are not anything like this section.  I recall tons of homes directly off the highway in sections.

Tom958

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 21, 2021, 08:26:07 AM
Is the uniqueness of SR 20/US 412 the fact that of the lack of traffic signals?  This was built during the time that the political clout was high for this area.  They are building additional four lane sections of US 412 but they are not anything like this section.  I recall tons of homes directly off the highway in sections.

It's a whole menu of things: no traffic lights, numerous interchanges, multiple recently-built substandard interchanges; no effort, on most sections, to discourage roadside development and, in places, active measures to promote it. And, in overview, a conspicuous lack of provision for future conversion to full freeway.

If there was political influence on the scoping, what would've been its origin and objective? Adding capacity and improving safety, obviously,  but what beyond that? Not interfering with free access and development potential? Eliminating signals? Maybe both, maybe plus some other things. Honestly, it does look like a camel: a horse designed by a committee.

Or maybe TDOT had wanted to test this concept for a while and finally had the opportunity- - it'd be easier to build all those bridges on existing 20-412 if it was being dualized at the same time. Maybe test the concept there before trying it on highways that had already been dualized.


webny99

Quote from: froggie on June 19, 2021, 08:15:03 PM
If I understand the OP correctly, then US 52 between St. Paul and Rochester, MN fits the bill.  Largely 1960s dualization with a few town bypasses.  Original Lafayette Freeway (north of I-494) constructed in the 1970s.  Extension of the freeway down to MN 55 West in 1995 completed the 4-lane corridor.  At one point, there were 4 signals along the corridor (2 in Cannon Falls, 1 in Coates, 1 along the 52/55 concurrency), but over the past 20 years all four signals were replaced by interchanges, with a small smattering of other interchanges also built, plus the full freeway reconstruction in Rochester and adjacent parts of Olmsted County.

While the long-term vision for the corridor is for a full freeway, MnDOT has recently started replacing the more crash-prone intersections with R-cuts, particularly in rural Dakota County.

That part of US 52 is wonderful - magical, almost, from the perspective of someone from New York, where that type of divided highway is basically non-existent (and such a road would have a 55 mph speed limit even if it did exist). Coming in from Wisconsin to get to the southern metro, I-90 to US 52 is just as fast if not faster than I-94. I'd like to see the I-90/US 52 interchange upgraded to remove the at-grades, but that's a minor quibble, especially for the west-to-north movement.

There are similar sections of US 14 and US 169, but I'm not sure if those would fit with what the OP is looking for either.

SkyPesos

I can't find information on when US 23/OH 15 between Waldo and Findlay was turned from a two lane to an expressway, though otherwise, it seem to fit your description.

renegade

Quote from: SkyPesos on June 21, 2021, 07:59:56 PM
I can't find information on when US 23/OH 15 between Waldo and Findlay was turned from a two lane to an expressway, though otherwise, it seem to fit your description.
Wikipedia says that stretch opened in 1966.
Don’t ask me how I know.  Just understand that I do.

Tom958

Quote from: SkyPesos on June 21, 2021, 07:59:56 PM
I can't find information on when US 23/OH 15 between Waldo and Findlay was turned from a two lane to an expressway, though otherwise, it seem to fit your description.

No, it doesn't. It has no driveways, occasional frontage roads to provide access to adjacent properties, and no substandard interchanges.

It does have this interesting interchange, though.



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