Drive-thru's backing up onto streets

[CardInLex]

How do megachurches do it?  Are there city police officers directing traffic, or are there private entities doing so?

Southeast Christian here in Louisville hires off duty police officers to direct traffic at most of their campuses. A lot of times they set the signals to flash to direct traffic in and out.

[HighwayStar]

How do megachurches do it?  Are there city police officers directing traffic, or are there private entities doing so?

Southeast Christian here in Louisville hires off duty police officers to direct traffic at most of their campuses. A lot of times they set the signals to flash to direct traffic in and out.

I thought back in the day there were various special provisions for churches, maybe we should adopt some special traffic laws for churches, and chicken restaurants endorsed by the savior.

[Scott5114]

Start ticketing drivers for obstructing traffic and you'll see the problem sort itself out. The chicken might be good, but is it $150-and-points-on-your-license good?

[jeffandnicole]

Start ticketing drivers for obstructing traffic and you'll see the problem sort itself out. The chicken might be good, but is it $150-and-points-on-your-license good?

If a motorist is in the proper lane waiting to make a legal turn, there's no obstruction of traffic. If I'm waiting to turn because of a pedestrian, is that obstruction? If I'm waiting to turn because of a jam on another roadway, is that obstruction? If traffic is jammed in general, is everyone guilty of obstructing?

[kphoger]

maybe we should adopt some special traffic laws for churches, and chicken restaurants endorsed by the savior.

Reminded me of this passage:

And they sent to him some of the city Councilmembers and some of the Representatives, to entrap him in his talk. And they came and said to him, "Teacher, we know that you are true, and care for no politics; for you do not regard the position of Democrats, but truly teach the way of Chick-fil-A. Is it lawful to pay traffic violations to the city, or not? Should we pay them, or should we not?"  But knowing their hypocrisy, he said to them, "Why put me to the test? Bring me the citation, and let me look at it."  And they brought one. And he said to them, "Whose signature is this?"  They said to him, "The police officer's."  Jesus said to them, "Render to Santa Barbara the things that are Santa Barbara's, and to Chick-fil-A the things that are Chick-fil-A's."  And they were amazed at him.

Mark 12:13-17  [New California Version]

[abefroman329]

If traffic is jammed in general, is everyone guilty of obstructing?

Everyone who's "blocking the box," so to speak, is guilty of obstructing.

[GaryV]

New California Version

Love it

[HighwayStar]

If traffic is jammed in general, is everyone guilty of obstructing?

Everyone who's "blocking the box," so to speak, is guilty of obstructing.

I feel this magnifies the problem. You can ticket people for actual violations like blocking an intersection, but then people will simply start lining up in lanes using even more space. Not sure that really fixes anything.

[SEWIGuy]

Complete misuse of police resources ticketing people who just want a good chicken sandwich.

[Max Rockatansky]

Complete misuse of police resources ticketing people who just want a good chicken sandwich.

Subjective measure there.  Good/decent for fast food would be the term I would use.  Definitely not worth a 90 minute wait to get, especially when other options exist in Santa Barbara.

[abefroman329]

I'll tell you who has mastered the fine art of drive-thru traffic management: Portillo's.

[abefroman329]

If traffic is jammed in general, is everyone guilty of obstructing?

Everyone who's "blocking the box," so to speak, is guilty of obstructing.

I feel this magnifies the problem. You can ticket people for actual violations like blocking an intersection, but then people will simply start lining up in lanes using even more space. Not sure that really fixes anything.

It eliminates gridlock.

[jeffandnicole]

If traffic is jammed in general, is everyone guilty of obstructing?

Everyone who's "blocking the box," so to speak, is guilty of obstructing.

I feel this magnifies the problem. You can ticket people for actual violations like blocking an intersection, but then people will simply start lining up in lanes using even more space. Not sure that really fixes anything.

It eliminates gridlock.

Yeah, agreed, don't block an intersection. I've read on these boards where people feel that if they entered before the light is red, it's their God given right to block the intersection, when in fact they're committing another violation by doing so.

That said, that's not what I was thinking of when I stated about congestion. I'm thinking along the lines of a normal highway jam.

[abefroman329]

That said, that's not what I was thinking of when I stated about congestion. I'm thinking along the lines of a normal highway jam.

My guess is, if you can move your vehicle, and you're not, then you're obstructing traffic (with "but I'll lose my place in the Homophobic Chicken drive-thru line!" not being a valid reason why you can't move your vehicle).

[rickmastfan67]

That said, that's not what I was thinking of when I stated about congestion. I'm thinking along the lines of a normal highway jam.

My guess is, if you can move your vehicle, and you're not, then you're obstructing traffic (with "but I'll lose my place in the Homophobic Chicken drive-thru line!" not being a valid reason why you can't move your vehicle).

Please try to keep the politics out of this thread so we don't have to lock it.

[roadman65]

Complete misuse of police resources ticketing people who just want a good chicken sandwich.

If they are obstructing traffic flow on a busy arterial, yes.

Dunkin' Donuts on South Florida Avenue does block the right lane northbound in Lakeland, Florida.  That's because everyone is fixed their on Dunkin Coffee and Doughnuts.  To me traffic is more important than good coffee or food, let them be forced to keep moving.

[Scott5114]

maybe we should adopt some special traffic laws for churches, and chicken restaurants endorsed by the savior.

Reminded me of this passage:

And they sent to him some of the city Councilmembers and some of the Representatives, to entrap him in his talk. And they came and said to him, "Teacher, we know that you are true, and care for no politics; for you do not regard the position of Democrats, but truly teach the way of Chick-fil-A. Is it lawful to pay traffic violations to the city, or not? Should we pay them, or should we not?"  But knowing their hypocrisy, he said to them, "Why put me to the test? Bring me the citation, and let me look at it."  And they brought one. And he said to them, "Whose signature is this?"  They said to him, "The police officer's."  Jesus said to them, "Render to Santa Barbara the things that are Santa Barbara's, and to Chick-fil-A the things that are Chick-fil-A's."  And they were amazed at him.

Mark 12:13-17  [New California Version]

Do we really need to even leave the thread open after this? It's not like anyone's going to post anything better.

[jeffandnicole]

Complete misuse of police resources ticketing people who just want a good chicken sandwich.

If they are obstructing traffic flow on a busy arterial, yes.

Dunkin' Donuts on South Florida Avenue does block the right lane northbound in Lakeland, Florida.  That's because everyone is fixed their on Dunkin Coffee and Doughnuts.  To me traffic is more important than good coffee or food, let them be forced to keep moving.

Then why did the town/county allow them to build there in the first place?

It goes back to a government-created problem. The government zoned land as commercial. A business did research and determined their business would be a good fit at that location. The business reviewed all regulations pertaining to that spot. A business bought/leased the land (or agreed to if they were permitted to operate there). The business' representatives went to the government to get permits and licenses as necessary to open their business there. After the government reviewed the required documents, they grant the business permission to operate.

If the government had any qualms of a business operating there, they had the full power to restrict that land prior to it being zoned commercial.

Again, this isn't a business problem. It's a government problem. If traffic back up onto a roadway, that's the result of thr government failing to properly review the business's proposal.  No different than the government approving housing developments, warehouses or shopping centers that cause congestion.

[HighwayStar]

Complete misuse of police resources ticketing people who just want a good chicken sandwich.

If they are obstructing traffic flow on a busy arterial, yes.

Dunkin' Donuts on South Florida Avenue does block the right lane northbound in Lakeland, Florida.  That's because everyone is fixed their on Dunkin Coffee and Doughnuts.  To me traffic is more important than good coffee or food, let them be forced to keep moving.

Then why did the town/county allow them to build there in the first place?

It goes back to a government-created problem. The government zoned land as commercial. A business did research and determined their business would be a good fit at that location. The business reviewed all regulations pertaining to that spot. A business bought/leased the land (or agreed to if they were permitted to operate there). The business' representatives went to the government to get permits and licenses as necessary to open their business there. After the government reviewed the required documents, they grant the business permission to operate.

If the government had any qualms of a business operating there, they had the full power to restrict that land prior to it being zoned commercial.

Again, this isn't a business problem. It's a government problem. If traffic back up onto a roadway, that's the result of thr government failing to properly review the business's proposal.  No different than the government approving housing developments, warehouses or shopping centers that cause congestion.

Exactly.

In the Santa Barbra Chick Fil A case the traffic is a result of artificially constricted supply of Chick Fil A restaurants. Obviously a government problem.

But even more generally I would say these fall under that description more generally. Consider a stadium that is known to have traffic issues. Its not the stadium's fault that people go to games, so when lines to get in are backed up on surface roads it falls to the government to manage that traffic issue. Usually they detail some police units to manage traffic for major events.

If your Chick Fil A is backing up then put some cops out to help with traffic just like a concert or football game has.

And for a longer term solution maybe include X spaces worth of line on premises as a requirement for restaurants with a drive through.

[Rothman]

Complete misuse of police resources ticketing people who just want a good chicken sandwich.

If they are obstructing traffic flow on a busy arterial, yes.

Dunkin' Donuts on South Florida Avenue does block the right lane northbound in Lakeland, Florida.  That's because everyone is fixed their on Dunkin Coffee and Doughnuts.  To me traffic is more important than good coffee or food, let them be forced to keep moving.

Then why did the town/county allow them to build there in the first place?

It goes back to a government-created problem. The government zoned land as commercial. A business did research and determined their business would be a good fit at that location. The business reviewed all regulations pertaining to that spot. A business bought/leased the land (or agreed to if they were permitted to operate there). The business' representatives went to the government to get permits and licenses as necessary to open their business there. After the government reviewed the required documents, they grant the business permission to operate.

If the government had any qualms of a business operating there, they had the full power to restrict that land prior to it being zoned commercial.

Again, this isn't a business problem. It's a government problem. If traffic back up onto a roadway, that's the result of thr government failing to properly review the business's proposal.  No different than the government approving housing developments, warehouses or shopping centers that cause congestion.

Exactly.

In the Santa Barbra Chick Fil A case the traffic is a result of artificially constricted supply of Chick Fil A restaurants. Obviously a government problem.

But even more generally I would say these fall under that description more generally. Consider a stadium that is known to have traffic issues. Its not the stadium's fault that people go to games, so when lines to get in are backed up on surface roads it falls to the government to manage that traffic issue. Usually they detail some police units to manage traffic for major events.

If your Chick Fil A is backing up then put some cops out to help with traffic just like a concert or football game has.

And for a longer term solution maybe include X spaces worth of line on premises as a requirement for restaurants with a drive through.

I believe that it was noted elsewhere that Santa Barbara no longer allows new drive-throughs through zoning.

Too early in the morning to find the quote...

[jeffandnicole]

If your Chick Fil A is backing up then put some cops out to help with traffic just like a concert or football game has.

What's interesting with this is, at least here in Philly, the police really aren't controlling traffic all that much. They are stationed at intersections with traffic lights. The lines of traffic entering the parking lots just queue up on the road for as long as needed...just like traffic queueing up to get into a drive thru.

Too early in the morning to find the quote...

This isn't the exact article you referenced, but it does mention it.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-03-15/chick-fil-a-drive-through-backlash-isnt-a-first-in-california

Someone of the concerns brought up veer far away from traffic issues, including that drive thru lines can be "magnets for gangs, graffiti and panhandlers", which is pretty unlikely in much of the country.

[kphoger]

Complete misuse of police resources ticketing people who just want a good chicken sandwich.

If they are obstructing traffic flow on a busy arterial, yes.

Dunkin' Donuts on South Florida Avenue does block the right lane northbound in Lakeland, Florida.  That's because everyone is fixed their on Dunkin Coffee and Doughnuts.  To me traffic is more important than good coffee or food, let them be forced to keep moving.

I think you've hit on it, there.  The police need their doughnuts and coffee.

[HighwayStar]

If your Chick Fil A is backing up then put some cops out to help with traffic just like a concert or football game has.

What's interesting with this is, at least here in Philly, the police really aren't controlling traffic all that much. They are stationed at intersections with traffic lights. The lines of traffic entering the parking lots just queue up on the road for as long as needed...just like traffic queueing up to get into a drive thru.

Too early in the morning to find the quote...

This isn't the exact article you referenced, but it does mention it.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-03-15/chick-fil-a-drive-through-backlash-isnt-a-first-in-california

Someone of the concerns brought up veer far away from traffic issues, including that drive thru lines can be "magnets for gangs, graffiti and panhandlers", which is pretty unlikely in much of the country.

Oh never let Philly be the standard of what should be done. They also park in the median here.

[HighwayStar]

The staffing shortage could have been legitimate, but limiting customers to one item is obviously a terrible resolution (does this mean literally one item? what about meal combos? people with a spouse and/or kids (basically everyone)? etc.). A better solution would be to cone off the drive thru after a set number of cars, or even just telling people about the staff shortage combined with longer wait times could be a significant deterrent.

Yeah, all five of us were in the car, picking up lunch on the way home from church.  I told her through the speaker that we had planned to order a taco party pack (12 identical tacos).  Her answer:  Sorry about that.

While I think a lot of places are having issues with this type of thing now, I found a real sign of the times filling out a survey for Jack In The Box today.
On the list of radio buttons you can choose for a complaint about the service, one of the options is now "Restaurant Hours Not Followed", it seems corporate is catching on to this kind of stuff.

[jeffandnicole]

The staffing shortage could have been legitimate, but limiting customers to one item is obviously a terrible resolution (does this mean literally one item? what about meal combos? people with a spouse and/or kids (basically everyone)? etc.). A better solution would be to cone off the drive thru after a set number of cars, or even just telling people about the staff shortage combined with longer wait times could be a significant deterrent.

Yeah, all five of us were in the car, picking up lunch on the way home from church.  I told her through the speaker that we had planned to order a taco party pack (12 identical tacos).  Her answer:  Sorry about that.

While I think a lot of places are having issues with this type of thing now, I found a real sign of the times filling out a survey for Jack In The Box today.
On the list of radio buttons you can choose for a complaint about the service, one of the options is now "Restaurant Hours Not Followed", it seems corporate is catching on to this kind of stuff.

Corporate is well aware. They can easily pull reports that shows no payroll and $0 sales during what should be normal operating hours.

Options on surveys like that are meant to appease the complainer. The restaurant will write back "we have contacted management". Customer is happy it appears something was done.