Take Your Health Seriously

[thspfc]

Okay so if I have it right the lesson out this thread is that EBT users should be banned from buying Mountain Dew and energy drinks?

No, it's "the poor are subhuman."

And undeserving of Mountain Dew or Red Bull.

Hopefully nobody mistakes my sarcasm.  I'm just taken aback by some these assertions being made about EBT users.  There even a "these people"  in this thread, can't say I'm surprised by who wrote it. 

How the fuck is this about health and diet monitoring now?

Because restricting people from buying garbage with money they were given for free would improve their health.

So, mandate the COVID vaccine.

?

I'm open to discussing if this is an equivalency, I'd just like an explanation first.

You care about publicly funded public health by restricting people who receive public funds from eating what they want.

COVID vaccines were also funded with public dollars.  Therefore, just like you want to force the poor to be healthy so taxes are not wasted, forcing people to get vaccinated so our taxes would not go to waste and improve public health would be consistent.

I'm not paying to government so that people can remain unvaccinated though. In the case of food stamps, I'm paying the government so that a lot of people can buy Mtn Dew.

I know that not all people using food stamps are buying unhealthy things.

You paid the government to get the vaccine developed.  Every person that does not get the vaccine that could represents a waste of that investment, just like you think people purchasing junk food with EBT are wasting your money.  Therefore, if you are going to restrict diets out of the idea of wasting government funds, then we also need a vaccine mandate to ensure our funding of the vaccine also does not go to waste.

It is inconsistent to force people to do what you want in the case of food stamps while shying away from vaccine mandates when both actions improve public health.  Either you are for heavy-handed government in enforcing public health, or you're not. 

Or, you're just wanting to be a jerk towards poor people.

Seeing as there is a large surplus of vaccines right now in the US, I'd say you're right about it being the same as food stamps, as the money is being wasted.

I did reverse my position on additional restrictions upthread, this reinforces that decision. So thank you.

Just one thing: banning cigarettes would fall under the "heavy-handed"  category. So if I was in favor of both restrictions on food stamps and vaccine mandates (which I am not), would I be in favor of that as well?

[JayhawkCO]

 

I find it hilarious that we're arguing the tax ramifications when in reality, none of your money goes to anything we're talking about.

Let's say you make $60k a year. That means you're in the 22% tax bracket. So you pay $13,200 a year in taxes (or less). Last stat I saw says SNAP benefits are 1.3% of the government's budget, so now we're down to $171.60.  38 million people are on SNAP benefits, and let's say 50% (a very high number for argument's sake) are "wasting their benefits", so you're basically buying 80 Red Bulls for 19 million people to share.

I have more important things to worry about than those people each getting 1.5 microliters of an energy drink on my dime.

[Scott5114]

↑ Indeed. And at the same time, the Air Force is buying $500 staplers or whatever else sort of overengineered faff some bright guy at Northrup Grumman shit out.

Hell, if I made $60k and some guy from a charity came up to me and asked for a $171 donation explicitly to buy Red Bulls for poor people, I'd probably just hand him the two Benjamins and tell him to keep the change. I've worked third shift before.

[thspfc]

I find it hilarious that we're arguing the tax ramifications when in reality, none of your money goes to anything we're talking about.

Let's say you make $60k a year. That means you're in the 22% tax bracket. So you pay $13,200 a year in taxes (or less). Last stat I saw says SNAP benefits are 1.3% of the government's budget, so now we're down to $171.60.  38 million people are on SNAP benefits, and let's say 50% (a very high number for argument's sake) are "wasting their benefits", so you're basically buying 80 Red Bulls for 19 million people to share.

I have more important things to worry about than those people each getting 1.5 microliters of an energy drink on my dime.

We all have more important things to worry about, but just because it's an insignificant sum of money doesn't mean it's totally meaningless. I wouldn't throw a dollar bill in a river.

[Scott5114]

I should hope not. Throwing a dollar bill in a river is pollution. You know how dirty those things are? Sheesh.

[JayhawkCO]

I find it hilarious that we're arguing the tax ramifications when in reality, none of your money goes to anything we're talking about.

Let's say you make $60k a year. That means you're in the 22% tax bracket. So you pay $13,200 a year in taxes (or less). Last stat I saw says SNAP benefits are 1.3% of the government's budget, so now we're down to $171.60.  38 million people are on SNAP benefits, and let's say 50% (a very high number for argument's sake) are "wasting their benefits", so you're basically buying 80 Red Bulls for 19 million people to share.

I have more important things to worry about than those people each getting 1.5 microliters of an energy drink on my dime.

We all have more important things to worry about, but just because it's an insignificant sum of money doesn't mean it's totally meaningless. I wouldn't throw a dollar bill in a river.

But I also wouldn't jump in to save it.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

My tax dollars go to all kinds of shit I don't approve of. Some dude can have a Dew on me.

[kphoger]

My wife and I use EBT.  And, I must admit, it is a little unsettling that we can buy deep-fried bacon-wrapped lard sticks (if such a thing existed) with it just as easily as we can buy kale and cucumbers.

From my perspective as one of "these people"...

Even though I find it a little unsettling that I can buy junk food with it just as well as healthy food, I also appreciate the freedom it affords us to actually choose our own diet.  We eat a well-balanced home-cooked diet at least five or six days out of the week.  But the boys also like to have a bowl of ice cream every so often.  And my wife, who operates a licensed home daycare, gives out M&Ms as a reward during potty training.  And so on and so forth.  Part of having a balanced diet is allowing yourself to have a little bit of a sugary or fatty treat every once in a while.

As for junk food being addictive, it's totally true.  I've finally gotten myself off soda, and it took a couple of years.  And still, sometimes, I fix myself a gin and tonic not because I crave the gin but because I crave the tonic.  The only juice I drink is a quarter-glass full of grapefruit juice in the morning;  if I didn't limit myself to that small amount, then I'd probably end up going through a jug of Jumex every two or three days–just like I used to back when I was single.

And as for fat people being more likely to be on EBT, well, let me be blunt:  salads cost more than tacos.  The more money you have to spend, the more freedom you have to make healthy shopping choices.  If you're poor enough to be on EBT, then chances are good you're not cooking braised endive as a side dish:  no, you're more likely to be buying ramen noodles by the case-quantity in order to get those EBT dollars to stretch all the way to the end of the month.  We manage to get a balanced diet from EBT, but that's partly because I grew up in with parents who (a) were decently well off and (b) love to cook from scratch–especially my dad–and taught me how to cook since almost before I can remember.

[Rothman]

And that just makes me think of the reality that newer generations are less likely to be as affluent as their parents now in the U.S. (which has dropped to a laughable level on the social mobility index...).

[Scott5114]

Cooking ability is an excellent point to bring up. My mom taught me how to cook a half-dozen or so dishes when I was a kid, but I can never manage to make them come out quite right, so I can only cook for myself so often before I start to need a break from it and eat something unhealthy. Some people didn't even have the benefit of having a parent teach them how to cook (maybe they worked odd hours and were never around, or they didn't know how to cook). What are these people supposed to do, eat raw chicken?

The subject of what even constitutes a healthy diet has been relentlessly obfuscated by the marketing departments of the agriculture and diet industries, as well, so it's hard to even know what is healthy and what is not anymore. Nobody ever taught me about macronutrients; I had to learn that from some fitness app sponsored by an athletic-gear manufacturer.

These are the sorts of things we should probably be teaching in school instead of whatever new and exciting ways of torturing Greek letters the mathematicians have come up with.

[kkt]

My tax dollars go to all kinds of shit I don't approve of. Some dude can have a Dew on me.

[kkt]

Yes, some cooking classes would be a good use of that money.  How to eat for cheap without loading up on carbs...  how to prepare large dishes and then keep the leftovers and use them... 

[J N Winkler]

With cooking, as with other skills, one has to start small and then build up.  I was lucky to have two parents and a grandmother living nearby who all knew how to cook and passed on many of their skills, but I have taught myself much of what I know since the types of foods I fix have changed over the years.

I have found it helps to have a meal plan to guide grocery shopping and help ensure I prepare food on time that meets dietary goals for quantity and diversity.  Taking yesterday as an example:

*  Breakfast:  coffee, orange juice, hot oatmeal

*  Lunch:  15-bean soup, carrots

*  Dinner:  broccoli pasta (broccoli and garlic cooked in olive oil and then water, served over cooked whole-wheat spaghetti with feta cheese--based on an old Moosewood recipe)

*  Supper/before-bed snack:  clementine, Cheerios with milk, apple

All of these except the dinner dish are part of my daily routine, and I make bean soup for the whole week on Sunday.  I start preparing the broccoli pasta (mincing the garlic cloves, chopping a crown or two of broccoli, readying boiling water for the pasta) about 30 minutes to an hour before the expected serving time.  All other heating occurs in the microwave.

This gives me about five or six servings from five different vegetables (onion, tomato, garlic, carrot, broccoli) and carries me over the 100% fiber RDA by the time I finish lunch (oatmeal has about 33% of the RDA while bean soup has about 60% from beans alone).

There are some dishes I like that exceed my nutrient diversity goals, but I don't fix them often, usually because they take too long.  For example, I have never managed to get ratatouille on the table with less than an hour-and-half preparation time, so I seldom cook it, even though it gives me servings from six different vegetables (onion, garlic, zucchini, eggplant, bell pepper, and tomato).  (I also find it to be a very lean dish, to the point I need to eke it out with a poached egg.)

[HighwayStar]

Money is a fictional substance invented by the government, so it's kind of questionable as to whether it's ever actually "yours" to begin with. (Ask a Russian oligarch how their hard-earned rubles have been doing over the past week.)

No, money is not "invented" by government, nor is it "fictional", money has existed for as long as man had anything that could resemble an economy that used any kind of markets. It is a natural consequence of allowing people to trade.

Governments can and do regulate and attempt to manipulate the monetary system.

As to the rubles, they are still right in the account where the Russian oligarch left them. They still have the money, it has not disappeared. Its value for international trade may be lower, but that type of fluctuation happens all the time to all currencies, especially those without a reserve status. And of course, if Russia were to swap to a Petro-Ruble system they would be able to restore a significant amount of value to the currency.

[Scott5114]

Money is a fictional substance invented by the government, so it's kind of questionable as to whether it's ever actually "yours" to begin with. (Ask a Russian oligarch how their hard-earned rubles have been doing over the past week.)

No, money is not "invented" by government, nor is it "fictional", money has existed for as long as man had anything that could resemble an economy that used any kind of markets. It is a natural consequence of allowing people to trade.

Governments can and do regulate and attempt to manipulate the monetary system.

As to the rubles, they are still right in the account where the Russian oligarch left them. They still have the money, it has not disappeared. Its value for international trade may be lower, but that type of fluctuation happens all the time to all currencies, especially those without a reserve status. And of course, if Russia were to swap to a Petro-Ruble system they would be able to restore a significant amount of value to the currency.

Incorrect.

[kphoger]

Some people didn't even have the benefit of having a parent teach them how to cook (maybe they worked odd hours and were never around, or they didn't know how to cook).

In my wife's case, she was basically raised by her grandparents (she came from a very broken home), and her grandmother cooked and baked.  But she also didn't want anyone else in the kitchen when she was cooking.  Some people have a "this is my kitchen" mentality while they're cooking, and I totally get it.  An effect of that, however, is that my wife didn't actually learn how to cook.  When I first met her, all she really knew how to make was pineapple upside-down cake.  But then, when she moved to be closer to me (10 miles away instead of 500), she took a job as a live-in nanny, and part of the job description was cooking supper for the family.  Talk about a short learning curve!  She started out following cookbook recipes to the letter, but she quickly learned the basics of cooking that way.  Nowadays, she hardly ever follows a recipe exactly the way it's laid out.  She can't just open up the refrigerator and cupboards and invent a meal idea on the spot, the way I can, but otherwise she's now quite the decent cook.

In my dad's case, his mother didn't teach him how to cook.  And my mom's parents barely even knew how to cook.  But, early on in their marriage, my parents worked different shifts.  A lot of days, they'd pass each other on the road–one going to work and one coming home.  And it was my mom who worked the evening shift.  My dad, at the time, was still in college/seminary and working on the side.  My older sister was still quite little at that time, and he found himself in charge of cooking most evenings:  for himself, a good friend who helped with babysitting and such, and my sister.  So he bought a copy of the 1971 New York Times International Cookbook and learned how to cook from that.  By the time I came along and was old enough to help in the kitchen, he was a whiz a cooking.

The subject of what even constitutes a healthy diet has been relentlessly obfuscated by the marketing departments of the agriculture and diet industries, as well, so it's hard to even know what is healthy and what is not anymore. Nobody ever taught me about macronutrients; I had to learn that from some fitness app sponsored by an athletic-gear manufacturer.

I teach my kids the value of eating a variety of foods every week, and they're often involved in the meal planning (we plan two weeks at a time).  For example, we try to have three different kinds of meat each week, and we change up the side dishes.  Some meals are more carb-heavy, others are more fat-heavy, others are basically lean (this is actually due to the diet plan that my wife [sort of] follows, which has one keep carbs and fats in separate meals as much as possible).  We've also had conversations about moderation–and that includes sugar as well as alcohol.

These are the sorts of things we should probably be teaching in school instead of whatever new and exciting ways of torturing Greek letters the mathematicians have come up with.

Yeah, my high school had gotten rid of home ec by the time I was there, but I think it's a valuable thing.  I'm not 100% sure it's the school's responsibility to teach it, but I'd say it's just as important as p.e.–so, if schools should be teaching exercise, then maybe they should also be teaching healthy life skills like cooking.

All of these except the dinner dish are part of my daily routine ...

I used to have a less varied diet as well:  the same thing for both breakfast and lunch every day, and only supper changing from day to day.  But, when I started to eat healthier lunches a year ago or so, I also added some variety.  I now have four lunch meals that I cycle through–two each week.  I do believe in the efficacy of a varied diet, and I'd like to encourage you to throw some more variety in each week.  Even if you don't get quite the same nutrient load from whatever other meal you put on the calendar, you at least give your body the opportunity to get some nutrients you might not have realized were lacking in your current plan.

[Dirt Roads]

In my wife's case, she was basically raised by her grandparents (she came from a very broken home), and her grandmother cooked and baked.  But she also didn't want anyone else in the kitchen when she was cooking.  Some people have a "this is my kitchen" mentality while they're cooking, and I totally get it.  An effect of that, however, is that my wife didn't actually learn how to cook.  When I first met her, all she really knew how to make was pineapple upside-down cake.  <snipped>

If the only thing your wife knew how to cook was Pineapple Upside-Down Cake, she was 15 steps ahead of my mother.  Her mother kept everyone out of the kitchen, so my Mom didn't hardly know what a frying pan was.  Dad always joked that she "burnt water the first time she tried", and it turned out to be a true story.  Good thing she didn't know what to do with a frying pan, or I probably wouldn't be here.

[jeffandnicole]

One of my pandemic regrets is I didn't start to cook, which with me working at home would've been very convenient to do.

My mom was working evening shift after she went back to work after having us kids, so my dad started learning to cook. He did fine, although most things were fairly plain (but I didn't know anything else, so it was all good to me).

[kphoger]

Adding on to that list, I'd just ban food stamps from soda, energy drinks, and candy/other high sugar foods.

My wife and I just got back from our big biweekly grocery shopping trip.

At the checkout line in Sprouts, she grabbed an energy drink because she was feeling a little groggy.  It was not covered by EBT.

Then, at Dillon's (Kroger), one of the items we bought was a bottle of A&W root beer.  It was covered by EBT.  How does that make you feel?  If you think it shouldn't have been covered, then consider that we bought it because it's an ingredient in some barbecue pulled pork we're cooking later in the week and serving with tortillas and cole slaw.  That is to say, we're using the root beer as a food item as part of a home-cooked family dinner.

Dad always joked that she "burnt water the first time she tried", and it turned out to be a true story.

I came pretty close to that, myself.  When I was in church youth group back in the 90s, I once put a saucepan on to hard-boil an egg in the church kitchen.  (We were doing prep work for the Easter breakfast the next day, and I thought it would be humorous for one of the candy-filled plastic Easter eggs to be a real egg instead.)  Then I forgot I'd put the saucepan on.  We finished up, some kids went to play elsewhere in the building, and I went home next door.  Eventually, smoke started billowing out of the church kitchen windows.  The water had boiled away, and then there was just the egg on the bottom of the saucepan over the flame–which doesn't turn out well, apparently.

[thspfc]

Adding on to that list, I'd just ban food stamps from soda, energy drinks, and candy/other high sugar foods.

My wife and I just got back from our big biweekly grocery shopping trip.

At the checkout line in Sprouts, she grabbed an energy drink because she was feeling a little groggy.  It was not covered by EBT.

Then, at Dillon's (Kroger), one of the items we bought was a bottle of A&W root beer.  It was covered by EBT.  How does that make you feel?  If you think it shouldn't have been covered, then consider that we bought it because it's an ingredient in some barbecue pulled pork we're cooking later in the week and serving with tortillas and cole slaw.  That is to say, we're using the root beer as a food item as part of a home-cooked family dinner.

99% of people who buy root beer are planning on drinking the root beer. You can't account for every little possible use.

[kphoger]

I'm just saying...  today, the system worked.

[Rothman]

Kphoger doesn't need thspfc's approval for the purchase.

[snowc]

Ok folks, take Golden Corral for a good example, including Rothman
So, we have a GC in Smithfield (and yes we saw a taxi too, A NYC one!)
My family visited it today, bypassing I95 because of the bridgework due to a truck  it!
We paid $12 each for the meal, and my father got it for free (his birthday is next saturday)
Upon arrival, the lady gave us our utensils and told us the breakdown.
I headed to the buffet, and they had mostly comfort food.
They didnt have chicken tenders, but had the BEST hamburgers ever.
I had some cottage cheese (LOVE IT), shredded cheese, hard boiled egg, and some rolls.
Those burgers are what I call steakburgers. They tasted like home! 
We had a family of four in back of us, and they apologized for their autistic daughter (yes i am autistic as well)
So, it was a good meal, but crowded.
Rothman, is the GC in Erie Blvd still open? The last time i visited in December 2021, they were closed.

[Max Rockatansky]

Golden Corral killed the idea of chain buffets for me.  I was brought to one once for lunch, it was incredibly underwhelming and bland.

[snowc]

Golden Corral killed the idea of chain buffets for me.  I was brought to one once for lunch, it was incredibly underwhelming and bland.

Well played, Taco Bell.