Will Walmart ever fail?

[webny99]

What!?!? That's fascinating, but if they insisted on returning that much product, why wouldn't you just resend them what they returned last time?

We may have eventually come to that, I can't remember for sure, but I don't think so.  But shipping was a different department.

... Basically, we had so much new product on hand, due to the up-front 'in stock' agreement, that I don't think we ever needed to resell the returns back to them:  our warehouse would numerically never run out of new stock.

Right, I was thinking of it more from a financial perspective and it seems like it would make sense to use the returns to fill the new orders to avoid holding so much inventory. But if they did that without holding enough new inventory and got found out by the customer, I'm sure there would have been legal ramifications.

Still, it seems absurd to waste product like that. I wonder if it would have made sense for you to stock product stickered for Walmart separate from else and fill their orders from that stockpile. That would have also saved them the step of stickering the product again.

[Scott5114]

Or better yet, institute a policy that they don't get full credit for goods with stickered products. If they're not going to put them on their sales floor, they have no business stickering them.

But of course Lord Walton demands it to be so.

[GCrites]

In some states things have to be snickered unless they are bulk items. Michigan is one I think.

[Scott5114]

In some states things have to be snickered

I'm sure Mars, Inc. appreciates that.

[kkt]

Even libraries' clientelle wants books reasonably promptly after they come out, not after they've been sent out to a bookstore, sat on the shelf for several months, and then returned.  If it's a novel or popular nonfiction, once it comes out in paperback a lot of people won't wait for the library's copy to be available.

For a lot of library books the purchase price is a fairly small part of getting the book and making it ready for the shelf.  Verifying that it's the same book as you ordered, cataloging, putting a call number label on it, and stamping it as library property add up to more in staff time than the purchase price... especially since most libraries buy most of their books from a wholesaler that gives them a good discount.

[kphoger]

One wonders how much purported economic activity in this country is that sort of thing. Things being produced, shipped somewhere, shipped back, destroyed, all without ever being used for their intended purpose. Trees killed, fuel burned, simply because not doing so negatively affects some line item on a report somewhere.

I was thinking of it more from a financial perspective and it seems like it would make sense to use the returns to fill the new orders to avoid holding so much inventory.

I think you're still not appreciating the pickle we were in.  By the time the company realized how that distributor ran their operation, we had already had gazillions of copies printed and warehoused in order to fulfil orders.  Remember, we were contractually guaranteeing them in stock, so we had to have the stock up front ourselves.  By the time we could have made any of the decisions you suggest, it was already too late to have made a difference in our stock levels or overhead:  the printing had already been done, trees killed, conveyor systems upgraded, warehouse space constructed/purchased, etc.

Before that time, our usual customers were places like Mardel, Family Christian Stores, LifeWay, et al–bookstores just as likely as not to be run by Christian managers, selling Christian literature, who love literature.  The quantity of returns from stores like that is a lot less, and the condition is a lot better, than from the likes of Kmart's, Sam's Club's, or Wal-Mart's middle-man distributors.  And the business environment, procedures, and relationships were a world apart in general.

I wonder if it would have made sense for you to stock product stickered for Walmart separate from else and fill their orders from that stockpile. That would have also saved them the step of stickering the product again.

Or better yet, institute a policy that they don't get full credit for goods with stickered products. If they're not going to put them on their sales floor, they have no business stickering them.

Well, we still had to go through each item, piece by piece, and determine its overall condition–not just whether it had no sticker, a sticker that could be removed, or a sticker that wasn't worth trying to remove.  Was the book bent? were the pages yellowed? was the cover scratched up?  And, based on the overall condition, we scanned it into the system as either 'good' or 'damaged' and warehoused it appropriately.  It was still a labor-intensive process, no matter how you slice it.  And for what?  It was literally no advantage to us as a company over just sending them new stock.

Eventually, if I remember correctly, the decision was made to automatically treat all returns of that product line (maybe just from that distributor, maybe from every customer, I can't recall) as 'damaged', because it made no sense to waste time or space re-warehousing it.  But again, that's a huge decision for people whose lives are defined by putting books in people's hands.  The VPs were, quite understandably, very slow in making that decision.  By that point, I had personally stretch-wrapped hundreds of pallets–perhaps more than a thousand, perhaps thousands–full of 1120 books each that would never be sold, destined for a shredder in Tennessee.

[snowc]

Also, order minimums are a thing. If I need $10 worth of items and pickup/delivery has a $25 order minimum, I don't want to have to add $15 worth of stuff I don't really need just to satisfy the order minimum. (Yeah, I could just do something like pad the order out with something that will keep that I'll use eventually, like cans of tuna, but most of the time the whole reason I'm under the order minimum is because I'm trying to get a few items to stretch things out until payday.)

We do grocery pickup in Erwin and we havent had any problems. $35 is recommended now, albeit you have to pay a $5.99 below minimum fee. After all, we had some items that had to be shipped, for example, my Equate body wash (dove knockoff) had to be shipped via FedEx to the house.
Oh and by the way, forgot to tell you all since its been two months I've been off this forum. I am finally starting to drive! 

[abefroman329]

One wonders how much purported economic activity in this country is that sort of thing. Things being produced, shipped somewhere, shipped back, destroyed, all without ever being used for their intended purpose. Trees killed, fuel burned, simply because not doing so negatively affects some line item on a report somewhere.

Yeah, I don't even know where to begin with that one.  T-shirts declaring, say, the Cincinnati Bengals the winners of Super Bowl LVI that will never see a sales floor, but they had to be produced just in case the Bengals won, so they could be sold immediately after the game ended.  Amazon's policy of not accepting returns of items where it's not cost-effective and simply giving the item to the customer for free (although, at least in that situation, I get to choose where it ends up).

And it's even worse on a global scale.  Stories are legion of, say, fish being caught in Country X, shipped to Country Y halfway around the world to be processed, and then shipped back to Country X to be sold, all because that's cheaper than processing the fish in Country X.

[kphoger]

Amazon's policy of not accepting returns of items where it's not cost-effective and simply giving the item to the customer for free (although, at least in that situation, I get to choose where it ends up).

None of the large middle-man distributors I received returns from at that publishing house had any interest in our sending product back that wasn't ours to begin with.  It was cheaper for them to have just 'lost' that product than it was to re-process it and send it to the correct publisher.  On occasion, that meant we got to pick through it and keep whatever we wanted–otherwise it was just go in the trash.

I ended up with quite a few interesting music CDs that way, including some albums I still listen to more than fifteen years later.  For example, that's how I first discovered Avril Lavigne, Delerium, and Jeff Parker (very different genres).  One day, one of us went home with a numbered edition of the Geneva Bible, worth three figures.  And one day, someone had fun driving over a Britney Spears CD with a 20,000-pound forklift, over and over again.

[catch22]

One wonders how much purported economic activity in this country is that sort of thing. Things being produced, shipped somewhere, shipped back, destroyed, all without ever being used for their intended purpose. Trees killed, fuel burned, simply because not doing so negatively affects some line item on a report somewhere.

Yeah, I don't even know where to begin with that one.  T-shirts declaring, say, the Cincinnati Bengals the winners of Super Bowl LVI that will never see a sales floor, but they had to be produced just in case the Bengals won, so they could be sold immediately after the game ended.  Amazon's policy of not accepting returns of items where it's not cost-effective and simply giving the item to the customer for free (although, at least in that situation, I get to choose where it ends up).

And it's even worse on a global scale.  Stories are legion of, say, fish being caught in Country X, shipped to Country Y halfway around the world to be processed, and then shipped back to Country X to be sold, all because that's cheaper than processing the fish in Country X.

I used to work in the IT department of a global auto parts manufacturer, which did stuff like this all the time.

An example:  One of our subsidiaries made wiper blades.  The extruded rubber blades and and the various metal and plastic pieces for the wiper arms were made in a plant in Indiana.  Then, the parts were sent to a warehouse in Texas.  From there, the pieces were separated into smaller lots and sent to our plant in Mexico, where they were assembled.  Then, the parts got sent back to the Texas location, sat around for a while and then shipped back to Indiana where they were packaged for retail and OEM customers.  Then, they were shipped to our warehouse in Alabama for distribution to customers.

[Scott5114]

Also, order minimums are a thing. If I need $10 worth of items and pickup/delivery has a $25 order minimum, I don't want to have to add $15 worth of stuff I don't really need just to satisfy the order minimum. (Yeah, I could just do something like pad the order out with something that will keep that I'll use eventually, like cans of tuna, but most of the time the whole reason I'm under the order minimum is because I'm trying to get a few items to stretch things out until payday.)

We do grocery pickup in Erwin and we havent had any problems. $35 is recommended now, albeit you have to pay a $5.99 below minimum fee. After all, we had some items that had to be shipped, for example, my Equate body wash (dove knockoff) had to be shipped via FedEx to the house.

If I don't have $35 to spend to satisfy an order minimum, I sure as hell don't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.

[Scott5114]

One wonders how much purported economic activity in this country is that sort of thing. Things being produced, shipped somewhere, shipped back, destroyed, all without ever being used for their intended purpose. Trees killed, fuel burned, simply because not doing so negatively affects some line item on a report somewhere.

Yeah, I don't even know where to begin with that one.  T-shirts declaring, say, the Cincinnati Bengals the winners of Super Bowl LVI that will never see a sales floor, but they had to be produced just in case the Bengals won, so they could be sold immediately after the game ended.  Amazon's policy of not accepting returns of items where it's not cost-effective and simply giving the item to the customer for free (although, at least in that situation, I get to choose where it ends up).

And it's even worse on a global scale.  Stories are legion of, say, fish being caught in Country X, shipped to Country Y halfway around the world to be processed, and then shipped back to Country X to be sold, all because that's cheaper than processing the fish in Country X.

I used to work in the IT department of a global auto parts manufacturer, which did stuff like this all the time.

An example:  One of our subsidiaries made wiper blades.  The extruded rubber blades and and the various metal and plastic pieces for the wiper arms were made in a plant in Indiana.  Then, the parts were sent to a warehouse in Texas.  From there, the pieces were separated into smaller lots and sent to our plant in Mexico, where they were assembled.  Then, the parts got sent back to the Texas location, sat around for a while and then shipped back to Indiana where they were packaged for retail and OEM customers.  Then, they were shipped to our warehouse in Alabama for distribution to customers.

Hell, I had to cause one of these things myself once. My playing cards are printed on a particular non-standard thickness of plastic stock (the next thicker stock is as thick as a credit card, too thick to shuffle comfortably, but the next thinner one flops around like a dead fish in your hands). So I had to custom-order a medium thickness of stock. But the minimum order size for that is way too big for me to afford having that many cards around, so I couldn't have the printer order the plastic themselves. So I had to custom order the plastic from a place in Texas and ship it to Oklahoma. Then I had to ship just the portion to be printed on from Oklahoma to Michigan, where my printer is. Then they shipped the finished product back to Oklahoma. 

[kalvado]

One wonders how much purported economic activity in this country is that sort of thing. Things being produced, shipped somewhere, shipped back, destroyed, all without ever being used for their intended purpose. Trees killed, fuel burned, simply because not doing so negatively affects some line item on a report somewhere.

Yeah, I don't even know where to begin with that one.  T-shirts declaring, say, the Cincinnati Bengals the winners of Super Bowl LVI that will never see a sales floor, but they had to be produced just in case the Bengals won, so they could be sold immediately after the game ended.  Amazon's policy of not accepting returns of items where it's not cost-effective and simply giving the item to the customer for free (although, at least in that situation, I get to choose where it ends up).

And it's even worse on a global scale.  Stories are legion of, say, fish being caught in Country X, shipped to Country Y halfway around the world to be processed, and then shipped back to Country X to be sold, all because that's cheaper than processing the fish in Country X.

I used to work in the IT department of a global auto parts manufacturer, which did stuff like this all the time.

An example:  One of our subsidiaries made wiper blades.  The extruded rubber blades and and the various metal and plastic pieces for the wiper arms were made in a plant in Indiana.  Then, the parts were sent to a warehouse in Texas.  From there, the pieces were separated into smaller lots and sent to our plant in Mexico, where they were assembled.  Then, the parts got sent back to the Texas location, sat around for a while and then shipped back to Indiana where they were packaged for retail and OEM customers.  Then, they were shipped to our warehouse in Alabama for distribution to customers.

Hell, I had to cause one of these things myself once. My playing cards are printed on a particular non-standard thickness of plastic stock (the next thicker stock is as thick as a credit card, too thick to shuffle comfortably, but the next thinner one flops around like a dead fish in your hands). So I had to custom-order a medium thickness of stock. But the minimum order size for that is way too big for me to afford having that many cards around, so I couldn't have the printer order the plastic themselves. So I had to custom order the plastic from a place in Texas and ship it to Oklahoma. Then I had to ship just the portion to be printed on from Oklahoma to Michigan, where my printer is. Then they shipped the finished product back to Oklahoma.

How about overnighting a 20 lb piece of electronics from NY to CA and back to replace a single transistor at the vendor facility? That is because $200k instrument is not working, and there is no spare available. When stakes are high, shipping things all over the place is fairly common and understandable.
I have issues with that if the value of the product and work involved is fairly trivial, and work is not very specialized. Overnight air shipping of oysters to processing facility and back because those who can afford oysters don't want to do processing for the price they are willing to pay for the product is a whole different story.
   

[GCrites]

How about overnighting a 20 lb piece of electronics from NY to CA and back to replace a single transistor at the vendor facility? That is because $200k instrument is not working, and there is no spare available. When stakes are high, shipping things all over the place is fairly common and understandable.

   

[snowc]

Also, order minimums are a thing. If I need $10 worth of items and pickup/delivery has a $25 order minimum, I don't want to have to add $15 worth of stuff I don't really need just to satisfy the order minimum. (Yeah, I could just do something like pad the order out with something that will keep that I'll use eventually, like cans of tuna, but most of the time the whole reason I'm under the order minimum is because I'm trying to get a few items to stretch things out until payday.)

We do grocery pickup in Erwin and we havent had any problems. $35 is recommended now, albeit you have to pay a $5.99 below minimum fee. After all, we had some items that had to be shipped, for example, my Equate body wash (dove knockoff) had to be shipped via FedEx to the house.

If I don't have $35 to spend to satisfy an order minimum, I sure as hell don't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.

You can still buy stuff on Walmart but if its under $35, you have to pay an additional $5.99 for the below minimum fee.

[snowc]

How about overnighting a 20 lb piece of electronics from NY to CA and back to replace a single transistor at the vendor facility? That is because $200k instrument is not working, and there is no spare available. When stakes are high, shipping things all over the place is fairly common and understandable.

   

And packages don't usually get there until 2pm in the afternoon, like my smartwatch thats supposed to come today. 

[kphoger]

If I don't have $35 to spend to satisfy an order minimum, I sure as hell don't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.

You can still buy stuff on Walmart but if its under $35, you have to pay an additional $5.99 for the below minimum fee.

If he doesn't have $35 to satisfy an order minimum, then he sure as heck doesn't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.

Yeah, that's his point.  What he would get in exchange for that $5.99 is literally nothing.  It's just an added fee.  A person who is in the financial position to not afford a $35 online order generally isn't in the financial position to pay $6 service fees.

[hbelkins]

If I don't have $35 to spend to satisfy an order minimum, I sure as hell don't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.

You can still buy stuff on Walmart but if its under $35, you have to pay an additional $5.99 for the below minimum fee.

If he doesn't have $35 to satisfy an order minimum, then he sure as heck doesn't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.

Yeah, that's his point.  What he would get in exchange for that $5.99 is literally nothing.  It's just an added fee.  A person who is in the financial position to not afford a $35 online order generally isn't in the financial position to pay $6 service fees.

I've been doing the Walmart pickup thing recently. It saves a lot of time. Order online, you can see what the store has in stock, it saves you from wandering all over the store only to find the one item your wife wanted that's on the other side of the store from everything else you need is out of stock, and you get in, pick up your items and get out.

I recently got dinged for a $5.99 minimum order fee for pickup that I'd never had before. If I had known I was going to be charged that, I would have ordered additional items to bring my total over $35. I complained online and the fee was waived. Apparently the fee is supposed to be charged only for delivery, but for some strange reason my pickup order was charged.

[vdeane]

If I don't have $35 to spend to satisfy an order minimum, I sure as hell don't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.

You can still buy stuff on Walmart but if its under $35, you have to pay an additional $5.99 for the below minimum fee.

If he doesn't have $35 to satisfy an order minimum, then he sure as heck doesn't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.

Yeah, that's his point.  What he would get in exchange for that $5.99 is literally nothing.  It's just an added fee.  A person who is in the financial position to not afford a $35 online order generally isn't in the financial position to pay $6 service fees.

I think he was saying he didn't have $35 worth of things to buy, not that he couldn't spend $35.  In any case, who wants to spend $6 for nothing?

[kphoger]

If I don't have $35 to spend to satisfy an order minimum, I sure as hell don't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.

You can still buy stuff on Walmart but if its under $35, you have to pay an additional $5.99 for the below minimum fee.

If he doesn't have $35 to satisfy an order minimum, then he sure as heck doesn't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.

Yeah, that's his point.  What he would get in exchange for that $5.99 is literally nothing.  It's just an added fee.  A person who is in the financial position to not afford a $35 online order generally isn't in the financial position to pay $6 service fees.

I think he was saying he didn't have $35 worth of things to buy, not that he couldn't spend $35.  In any case, who wants to spend $6 for nothing?

I'm pretty sure "If I don't have $35 to spend" means exactly what it says–especially considering he had said ten days earlier, "most of the time the whole reason I'm under the order minimum is because I'm trying to get a few items to stretch things out until payday".

[abefroman329]

I've been doing the Walmart pickup thing recently. It saves a lot of time. Order online, you can see what the store has in stock, it saves you from wandering all over the store only to find the one item your wife wanted that's on the other side of the store from everything else you need is out of stock, and you get in, pick up your items and get out.

It works about as well as anything else related to Walmart works.  It was disastrous the first time I used it - I got an alert that it was ready, I went to the store to pick it up, and the employees were caught completely off guard - naturally, there was no order waiting for me.

Target has order pickup down to an exact science.  Best Buy does as well, although if it's something I don't need immediately and it meets the order minimum, I'll just do the free same/next-day shipping.

[snowc]

If I don't have $35 to spend to satisfy an order minimum, I sure as hell don't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.

You can still buy stuff on Walmart but if its under $35, you have to pay an additional $5.99 for the below minimum fee.

If he doesn't have $35 to satisfy an order minimum, then he sure as heck doesn't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.

Yeah, that's his point.  What he would get in exchange for that $5.99 is literally nothing.  It's just an added fee.  A person who is in the financial position to not afford a $35 online order generally isn't in the financial position to pay $6 service fees.

I've been doing the Walmart pickup thing recently. It saves a lot of time. Order online, you can see what the store has in stock, it saves you from wandering all over the store only to find the one item your wife wanted that's on the other side of the store from everything else you need is out of stock, and you get in, pick up your items and get out.

I recently got dinged for a $5.99 minimum order fee for pickup that I'd never had before. If I had known I was going to be charged that, I would have ordered additional items to bring my total over $35. I complained online and the fee was waived. Apparently the fee is supposed to be charged only for delivery, but for some strange reason my pickup order was charged.

Its supposed to be waived for Walmart Plus users, not for regular users. 

[snowc]

Just got this message: 

Dear redacted,
We love discovering new ways to make Walmart+ even more valuable for members, and we're really proud of how the program has evolved over the last year. We recently expanded our fuel benefit to save you up to 10 cents per gallon at more than 14,000 stations nationwide and added six months of Spotify Premium to the growing list of membership perks. This is just the beginning for Walmart+.
As part of that evolution, we've taken time to re-evaluate our existing offerings. As a result, we will be discontinuing the Rx for less program as a Walmart+ benefit effective May 31. At that time, we'll be updating our Terms of Use solely to reflect this change. If you are actively using Rx for less, expect a follow-up email today with more information on next steps.
Walmart remains fully committed to offering health and wellness benefits to meet our customers' needs. We have a history of launching products and programs that have transformed the industry and created significant healthcare savings for our customers, including revolutionizing the healthcare industry 15 years ago when we launched the $4 generic prescription program, and, more recently, ReliOn™ analog insulin. These programs resulted in significant savings for customers and helped lower the cost of healthcare overall, while demonstrating Walmart's commitment to offering affordable, accessible healthcare. Customers will continue to benefit from these programs at Walmart pharmacies.
All other Walmart+ member benefits are not changing. You still have access to free delivery from stores, fuel discounts, free shipping with no minimum, Scan & Go and more. By continuing to use your Walmart+ benefits after May 31, or by renewing your membership after this date, you are agreeing to the updated Terms of Use, which will be available here as of June 1.
Thank you for being a valued Walmart+ member. To adjust your membership settings, visit your account. For questions, visit the Help Center.
   

No more free meds for W+ users! 

[Scott5114]

If I don't have $35 to spend to satisfy an order minimum, I sure as hell don't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.

You can still buy stuff on Walmart but if its under $35, you have to pay an additional $5.99 for the below minimum fee.

If he doesn't have $35 to satisfy an order minimum, then he sure as heck doesn't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.

Yeah, that's his point.  What he would get in exchange for that $5.99 is literally nothing.  It's just an added fee.  A person who is in the financial position to not afford a $35 online order generally isn't in the financial position to pay $6 service fees.

I think he was saying he didn't have $35 worth of things to buy, not that he couldn't spend $35.  In any case, who wants to spend $6 for nothing?

I'm pretty sure "If I don't have $35 to spend" means exactly what it says–especially considering he had said ten days earlier, "most of the time the whole reason I'm under the order minimum is because I'm trying to get a few items to stretch things out until payday".

You're both right, honestly. My financial position hasn't been great since I left my last job–which I'm not complaining about, mind you, I still feel like it was the best decision to make–so if I have $25 to spend and need $15 worth of groceries, spending $21 on that $15 worth of groceries would be, in my view, a horrible financial decision. At the same time, even if I had $1000 to spend and only need $15 worth of groceries (and thus could afford the $6 fee), I would still rather save myself the $6 by going inside and picking the items myself–if I have $15 in my cart I can probably self-check or use an express lane anyway so it's not even going to be that much of a time saver.

Or to look at it through a sheer mathematical model–assuming I value my time at $15/hour, I would need to spend 24 minutes inside the store for the $6 fee to start making some degree of financial sense. (This is before you account for the fact that pickup takes a nonzero amount of time to accomplish too, so what you're really looking at is the difference between "time going in would cost you" and "time pickup takes".) And I'm pretty confident in my ability to buy less than $35 worth of groceries in 24 minutes, especially since I have the freedom to go to the store at 3 am if I wish.

[kkt]

I prefer shopping for myself.  If the store is out of what I really wanted, I want to figure out what to do instead, not trust that someone is going to make the same choice I would.