__________ is/are overrated.

[JayhawkCO]

In all seriousness, though, there are lots of ways to have fun as a young adult, and even date when you're mature enough, without sexual activity.

(Exhibit A: outdoor activities like hiking, kayaking, camping, fishing, mountain biking)
(Exhibit B: shopping)
(Exhibit C: going on a vacation to somewhere that's not one of those steamy "adults only" destinations like Las Vegas)
(Exhibit D: "Renaissance man" activities like creating artwork, sculpting statues, or writing literature)

Or you can realize that being sexual is a normal part of human behavior and you should try out all you can to figure out what you like and what you don't. I did all that stuff in high school, and got some too. If you're only consumed with sex, sure, that's not ideal. But you can easily mix it in to your myriad interests.

I know, right. I have to admit that I'm surprised to see like three different repressive views on human sexuality all arguing with one another in this thread.

I'm an atheist, so while I don't personally believe that there's a higher power telling me not to have sex, at least I can understand why someone who is religious would follow the doctrine or whatever. But anyone else who thinks sex (or even "lesser sexual activity") between consenting peers is bad? No comprendo.

[TheGrassGuy]

In all seriousness, though, there are lots of ways to have fun as a young adult, and even date when you're mature enough, without sexual activity.

(Exhibit A: outdoor activities like hiking, kayaking, camping, fishing, mountain biking)
(Exhibit B: shopping)
(Exhibit C: going on a vacation to somewhere that's not one of those steamy "adults only" destinations like Las Vegas)
(Exhibit D: "Renaissance man" activities like creating artwork, sculpting statues, or writing literature)

Or you can realize that being sexual is a normal part of human behavior and you should try out all you can to figure out what you like and what you don't. I did all that stuff in high school, and got some too. If you're only consumed with sex, sure, that's not ideal. But you can easily mix it in to your myriad interests.

Again, better safe than sorry. It's natural, yes, but it's not something appropriate for young people to do, and it should be the last on young people's lists of priorities. My parents would've given me unthinkable punishments if they'd discovered that I was making out even once. YMMV of course, but it's definitely something to teach the next generation.

In all seriousness, though, there are lots of ways to have fun as a young adult, and even date when you're mature enough, without sexual activity.

(Exhibit A: outdoor activities like hiking, kayaking, camping, fishing, mountain biking)
(Exhibit B: shopping)
(Exhibit C: going on a vacation to somewhere that's not one of those steamy "adults only" destinations like Las Vegas)
(Exhibit D: "Renaissance man" activities like creating artwork, sculpting statues, or writing literature)

Or you can realize that being sexual is a normal part of human behavior and you should try out all you can to figure out what you like and what you don't. I did all that stuff in high school, and got some too. If you're only consumed with sex, sure, that's not ideal. But you can easily mix it in to your myriad interests.

I know, right. I have to admit that I'm surprised to see like three different repressive views on human sexuality all arguing with one another in this thread.

I'm an atheist, so while I don't personally believe that there's a higher power telling me not to have sex, at least I can understand why someone who is religious would follow the doctrine or whatever. But anyone else who thinks sex (or even "lesser sexual activity") between consenting peers is bad? No comprendo.

While I did grow up in a religious family, and Christian scriptures do condemn sex before marriage while treating it as a divine gift for solely the appropriate contexts, there are many reasons against premarital sex that I listed which have nothing to do with religion.

[Rothman]

In all seriousness, though, there are lots of ways to have fun as a young adult, and even date when you're mature enough, without sexual activity.

(Exhibit A: outdoor activities like hiking, kayaking, camping, fishing, mountain biking)
(Exhibit B: shopping)
(Exhibit C: going on a vacation to somewhere that's not one of those steamy "adults only" destinations like Las Vegas)
(Exhibit D: "Renaissance man" activities like creating artwork, sculpting statues, or writing literature)

Or you can realize that being sexual is a normal part of human behavior and you should try out all you can to figure out what you like and what you don't. I did all that stuff in high school, and got some too. If you're only consumed with sex, sure, that's not ideal. But you can easily mix it in to your myriad interests.

I know, right. I have to admit that I'm surprised to see like three different repressive views on human sexuality all arguing with one another in this thread.

I'm an atheist, so while I don't personally believe that there's a higher power telling me not to have sex, at least I can understand why someone who is religious would follow the doctrine or whatever. But anyone else who thinks sex (or even "lesser sexual activity") is bad? No comprendo.

Back in the day, I do think it was a matter of simple economics to wait given the available birth control methods, maternal mortality rate and the division of male/female household duties that were more about survival than oppression...until civilization improved.

[JayhawkCO]

In all seriousness, though, there are lots of ways to have fun as a young adult, and even date when you're mature enough, without sexual activity.

(Exhibit A: outdoor activities like hiking, kayaking, camping, fishing, mountain biking)
(Exhibit B: shopping)
(Exhibit C: going on a vacation to somewhere that's not one of those steamy "adults only" destinations like Las Vegas)
(Exhibit D: "Renaissance man" activities like creating artwork, sculpting statues, or writing literature)

Or you can realize that being sexual is a normal part of human behavior and you should try out all you can to figure out what you like and what you don't. I did all that stuff in high school, and got some too. If you're only consumed with sex, sure, that's not ideal. But you can easily mix it in to your myriad interests.

Again, better safe than sorry. It's natural, yes, but it's not something appropriate for young people to do, and it should be the last on young people's lists of priorities. My parents would've given me unthinkable punishments if they'd discovered that I was making out even once. YMMV of course, but it's definitely something to teach the next generation.

Well, I'll 100% disagree. I don't agree that it's inappropriate. Yeah, if you're masturbating in front of a crowd, I get it. But if your parents would actually punish you for following human instinct, in my opinion (and I'm trying not to be insulting or too judgey), that's bad parenting. I have a 5-month-old and when it's time to talk to him about sex, the conversation will be "do what makes you feel good" provided a) you're very aware of consent and what the other person wants and b) you use protection.

[JayhawkCO]

While I did grow up in a religious family, and Christian scriptures do condemn sex before marriage while treating it as a divine gift for solely the appropriate contexts, there are many reasons against premarital sex that I listed which have nothing to do with religion.

I know you listed them. I just disagree with all of them. 

[JayhawkCO]

Back in the day, I do think it was a matter of simple economics to wait given the available birth control methods, maternal mortality rate and the division of male/female household duties that were more about survival than oppression...until civilization improved.

Not even back in the day. I just turned 40 and I had my first kid five months ago. I was finally in a financial situation where I felt comfortable having one (not to mention being in a better mental state to do so a.k.a. not being a numbskull in my 20's).

[TheGrassGuy]

1. Dating, especially before college.

High school dating is a complete waste of time, money, and effort that could be better directed towards academics, extracurriculars, or community service.

I mean, I feel like dating in high school is specifically for some of those extracurriculars...

Are we on the same page here? By "extracurriculars," I'm referring to stuff like sports and clubs in school.

He's talking about fucking.

9. Premarital sex.

Or, at least, pre-engagement sex. Again, sorry if I'm sounding like your parents, but... fuck fucking. Hard to pass the opportunity to say that. I'd rather sit out on a fleeting sense of temporary superficial primordial pleasure than to risk exposure to STDs like syphilis and AIDS, causing unplanned pregnancies, and ruining other people's lives. It's so upsetting how the age at which people have been getting into intimate relationships has been getting lower and lower over the years.

10. The 1980s.

80's culture isn't as "groovy" as a lot of people make it out to be, especially people who were born after the 80's.

11. The Liberty Bell, Times Square, the White House and the Capitol Building (as a tourist), Navy Pier, Fisherman's Wharf, the Space Needle, the Gastown clock, the Christ the Redeemer statue, the Little Mermaid statue, the Mannekin Pis statue, the Eiffel Tower, and the Leaning Tower of Pisa.

I'm pretty sure nobody's complained about overrated and underwhelming tourist attractions here yet.

[formulanone]

11. The Liberty Bell, Times Square, the White House and the Capitol Building (as a tourist), Navy Pier, Fisherman's Wharf, the Space Needle, the Gastown clock, the Christ the Redeemer statue, the Little Mermaid statue, the Mannekin Pis statue, the Eiffel Tower, and the Leaning Tower of Pisa.

I'm pretty sure nobody's complained about overrated and underwhelming tourist attractions here yet.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=25764.0

(Large quote blocks are overrated.)

[kphoger]

I have a 5-month-old and when it's time to talk to him about sex, the conversation will be "do what makes you feel good" provided a) you're very aware of consent and what the other person wants and b) you use protection.

Forgive me, but "what makes you feel good" is not how I teach my children to navigate life.

[kphoger]

Clothes are overrated.

Well at the very least, spending a ton of money on "name brand" clothes that are the same or only marginally better quality is overrated.

Sorry, I should clarify.  Wearing clothes is overrated.

Honestly, we'd be fine half the year without them.

No, not for me anyway.  Need clothes in winter because it's cold.  Need clothes in summer for protection against skin cancer.  Not that fond of sunscreen and I'd rather only have to wear it on my head and maybe arms.

Curiosity got the better of me, so I decided to see how many days in Wichita get up to at least 70°F.  Turns out it's more than 50%.  So I figure the "because it's cold" part would not apply to at least part of the day for at least half the year.



But as for skin cancer:  yes, I'm sure I underrate the risk of skin cancer.  My wife always gripes at me for not wearing sunscreen in the summer.

[Scott5114]

Sex is no different than taking a roadtrip with someone else:
- can fuck up your life really badly if you don't take basic safety precautions
- can result in misery if you do it with the wrong person
- the vast majority of the time, neither of those things happen, and you just have fun
- is really about the same whether you're married or not

There's no sense in being weird about it any more than any other leisure activity.

[kphoger]

Sex is no different than taking a roadtrip with someone else:
- can fuck up your life really badly if you don't take basic safety precautions
- can result in misery if you do it with the wrong person
- the vast majority of the time, neither of those things happen, and you just have fun
- is really about the same whether you're married or not

There's no sense in being weird about it any more than any other leisure activity.

Disagree.

And I'm someone who has had both pre-marital sex and marital sex, and I'm also someone who has had a child out of wedlock.  Two points I'll touch on below.

A sexual relationship creates a bond between the people involved that is (unlike) (deeper than) (more spiritual than) (stronger than) the bond that might otherwise exist without it.  Leaving "the wrong person" is a more difficult process if you're sexually involved than if you aren't, because your sexual passion can cloud your judgment and cause you to go against your better senses.

Defining the process that makes babies as merely a "leisure activity" works to erode the connection between bearing children and having a committed long-term relationship.  The entirety of that erosion isn't mitigated by using protection, because it's a cognitive shift that happens in the mind and in the heart.

[Scott5114]

A sexual relationship creates a bond between the people involved that is (unlike) (deeper than) (more spiritual than) (stronger than) the bond that might otherwise exist without it.

This hasn't been my experience at all, so that probably explains the difference in our opinion on this.

[J N Winkler]

The Liberty Bell, Times Square, the White House and the Capitol Building (as a tourist), Navy Pier, Fisherman's Wharf, the Space Needle, the Gastown clock, the Christ the Redeemer statue, the Little Mermaid statue, the Mannekin Pis statue, the Eiffel Tower, and the Leaning Tower of Pisa.

How many people visit the cities in which these are situated just to see those specific things?  I've been to Paris multiple times and not once visited the Eiffel Tower, though I do try to make it to the Louvre.

I'm pretty sure nobody's complained about overrated and underwhelming tourist attractions here yet.

There was earlier conversation in this thread about Florida and tourist attractions situated within it, such as Disney World.  (I've actually been and liked Epcot, but the other part--Magic Kingdom?--was a bit of a disappointment.  They had people dressed in plush suits as various Disney animated characters and it made me sad to see a three-year-old chasing "Mickey" as he retreated to an off-limits area.)

Curiosity got the better of me, so I decided to see how many days in Wichita get up to at least 70°F.  Turns out it's more than 50%.  So I figure the "because it's cold" part would not apply to at least part of the day for at least half the year.



But as for skin cancer:  yes, I'm sure I underrate the risk of skin cancer.  My wife always gripes at me for not wearing sunscreen in the summer.

Wearing clothes in the summer is also about leaving less surface exposed to biting insects, including ones that can cause difficult-to-treat diseases like Rocky Mountain spotted fever.  Clothes also protect the skin from vinyl and leather seating surfaces that have gotten hot in the sun and help keep sweat and anal secretions off furniture.

[kphoger]

anal secretions

* kphoger checks, just to be sure...

Yep, that's the first time the phrase has been used on this forum![/me]

[kphoger]

A sexual relationship creates a bond between the people involved that is (unlike) (deeper than) (more spiritual than) (stronger than) the bond that might otherwise exist without it.

This hasn't been my experience at all, so that probably explains the difference in our opinion on this.

Actually, I've long thought that such a deep-seated bond is likely the reason sacred prostitution has been a feature of so many ancient religions:  because sexual intercourse, by its profundity of experience, has been believed by multiple cultures to be a gateway to or touchpoint with the supernatural.

[jakeroot]

The amount of posting in this thread is making me realize: reading every post in a thread is overrated.

[JayhawkCO]

I have a 5-month-old and when it's time to talk to him about sex, the conversation will be "do what makes you feel good" provided a) you're very aware of consent and what the other person wants and b) you use protection.

Forgive me, but "what makes you feel good" is not how I teach my children to navigate life.

Obviously we're all welcome to raise our kids differently, but I will raise my child to do what interests them and what gives them a feeling of contentment. Whether that's dancing, studying dinosaurs, being interested in the opposite/same sex, etc. I think as long as you have honest conversations with children (and eventually teenagers) about the things that are in the world and how to enjoy them while still being safe and respectful to other people, it's a better style of parenting than complete prohibition on anything "fun" and then when the kid goes to college, they go crazy because there's so much they haven't been exposed to. Think of it like rumspringa without the religion beforehand. Again, your thoughts may differ.

A sexual relationship creates a bond between the people involved that is (unlike) (deeper than) (more spiritual than) (stronger than) the bond that might otherwise exist without it.

This hasn't been my experience at all, so that probably explains the difference in our opinion on this.

Actually, I've long thought that such a deep-seated bond is likely the reason sacred prostitution has been a feature of so many ancient religions:  because sexual intercourse, by its profundity of experience, has been believed by multiple cultures to be a gateway to or touchpoint with the supernatural.

There were several studies done about why suicide bombers in the 2000's were almost all Muslim, and the general consensus was that the drive to get to heaven to get the 99 virgins was a good enough reason for these poor virgins from the rural Middle East to kill themselves; the rich men in their villages were the ones with all of the women, and in turn, all of the sex. I'll try to track down the study.

I think there's a corollary to the modern "basement dwelling white guys in America" committing mass shootings. For whatever reason, their social circles don't include a lot of women, and so they're also not having sex. I would be very surprised if any of these mass shooters, especially the ones under the age of 25, had ever had consensual sex that they didn't pay for, and likely not that either.

Sacred prostitution, if it existed in modern times, at least would mitigate some of these types of issues. In reality, I think sacred prostitution, at the time, was just a way for rich dudes to get around what the mullah was advising against.

[kphoger]

... it's a better style of parenting than complete prohibition on anything "fun" and then when the kid goes to college, they go crazy because there's so much they haven't been exposed to. Think of it like rumspringa without the religion beforehand. Again, your thoughts may differ.

You're equating "wait until marriage to have sex" with "anything fun is prohibited"?  Really?

In reality, I think sacred prostitution, at the time, was just a way for rich dudes to get around what the mullah was advising against.

Huh?  No, I'm talking about ancient Greek, Babylonian, and Hittite cultures–where sacred prostitution was an explicit part of the religion practice, not a means around that religion's tenets.  In fact, personal moral conduct as a feature of religious dogma is a rather modern Western thing, whereas ancient Near Eastern religions tended to be more concerned with the act of cultic worship itself.

[JayhawkCO]

... it's a better style of parenting than complete prohibition on anything "fun" and then when the kid goes to college, they go crazy because there's so much they haven't been exposed to. Think of it like rumspringa without the religion beforehand. Again, your thoughts may differ.

You're equating "wait until marriage to have sex" with "anything fun is prohibited"?  Really?

I put fun in quotes for a reason. Sex, drugs, and rock and roll are "fun".

In reality, I think sacred prostitution, at the time, was just a way for rich dudes to get around what the mullah was advising against.

Huh?  No, I'm talking about ancient Greek, Babylonian, and Hittite cultures–where sacred prostitution was an explicit part of the religion practice, not a means around that religion's tenets.  In fact, personal moral conduct as a feature of religious dogma is a rather modern Western thing, whereas ancient Near Eastern religions tended to be more concerned with the act of cultic worship itself.

I thought you were talking about nikah mut'ah, or Muslim temporary marriages where basically you're paying a woman (or her family a dowry) to get temporarily married in order to have sex. Either way, more often than not, from glancing quickly at a Wikipedia article about sacred prostitution to get me up to speed (so I'm admitting I might be missing something), it looks like mostly the holy or rich men were the ones allowed to partake in the "ritual", so it's not a ton different.

[Scott5114]

Heh, since we're on the subject, sort of, I'll go ahead and say marriage is overrated. Or at least the legal concept of it. I'm content enough with my marriage that I'm not interested in ending it, but sometimes I miss not having our property and financial interests so intertwined. I was a lot happier when I could distance myself from my wife's financial affairs; getting to see all of the gory details has added a lot of stress to the relationship we didn't have when we were just living together. I sometimes wonder if it would have been better to remain in a state of having a committed, long-term, live-in relationship, or in other words, a marriage in all but name.

"You can only have sex if you're willing to assume the other person's credit card debt" would be a really weird take it if it weren't rooted in religious tradition.

[TheGrassGuy]

Heh, since we're on the subject, sort of, I'll go ahead and say marriage is overrated. Or at least the legal concept of it. I'm content enough with my marriage that I'm not interested in ending it, but sometimes I miss not having our property and financial interests so intertwined. I was a lot happier when I could distance myself from my wife's financial affairs; getting to see all of the gory details has added a lot of stress to the relationship we didn't have when we were just living together. I sometimes wonder if it would have been better to remain in a state of having a committed, long-term, live-in relationship, or in other words, a marriage in all but name.

I'm not sure I'm with you about marriage itself, but I can see some logic in deeming weddings to be overrated. I agree with one of the up-thread posters that it's much quicker and simple to just sign papers in some government office with your spouse, rather than plan a huge and financially taxing ceremony. It's not like we, as 21st-century human beings, are obliged to bind to tradition to the maximum extent possible at all times.

"You can only have sex if you're willing to assume the other person's credit card debt" would be a really weird take it if it weren't rooted in religious tradition.

Honestly, it's not so much the precise formalities and legal fine print surrounding marriage as it is the commitment you and your partner have for each other. I (and my family members) actually used to believe that sexual intercourse must be preceded by formal marriage, however our views have since widened to include engagement.

I have a 5-month-old and when it's time to talk to him about sex, the conversation will be "do what makes you feel good" provided a) you're very aware of consent and what the other person wants and b) you use protection.

Forgive me, but "what makes you feel good" is not how I teach my children to navigate life.

Obviously we're all welcome to raise our kids differently, but I will raise my child to do what interests them and what gives them a feeling of contentment. Whether that's dancing, studying dinosaurs, being interested in the opposite/same sex, etc. I think as long as you have honest conversations with children (and eventually teenagers) about the things that are in the world and how to enjoy them while still being safe and respectful to other people, it's a better style of parenting than complete prohibition on anything "fun" and then when the kid goes to college, they go crazy because there's so much they haven't been exposed to. Think of it like rumspringa without the religion beforehand. Again, your thoughts may differ.

Don't worry guys, I'm not that religious. If you're implying that I'm creationist or homophobic you're getting the idea completely wrong. I just grew up in a religious family, that's all. Anyways, can we all agree about some basic standards or "house rules" about the right way for raising children in a family? A lot of these are essentially common sense, such as prohibitions against drug, alcohol, nicotine/tobacco/vape use. Not talking to strangers. Reading the ratings for movies and video games until your children demonstrate adequate maturity. Restricting internet usage to make sure your kids get enough outdoor and face-to-face time. Feeding your children a healthy, nutritious, and balanced diet. Taking away their privileges whenever they get bad grades, steal, tell lies, cheat, or use inappropriate language. Signing them up for extracurricular activities (while maintaining a balance between "forcing them against their will" and "letting them be quitters"). Being "assertive" parents rather than "autocratic" or "permissive" parents. And last but not least, teaching them about the wide range of dangers of abusing the gift of procreation before lifelong commitment to one partner (who may or may not be of the opposite sex).

[skluth]

Beaches are overrated.

Since I moved to a snowy-winter environment I have been doing about three week-long beach vacations per year and have loved them all, errrrr well most of them anyway.  A good book and a cooler full of soda and beer whisk so many cares away.

Edit to add:  I guess the one I wasn't that impressed with in the last few years was Honolulu/Waikiki.  And that was at the depths of the Covid-19 issues when it was probably as empty as it would ever be.  Hawaii has so many beautiful beaches on Maui and the Big Island, but I just didn't care much for Waikiki's urban environment.

Beaches in general aren't overrated, but Waikiki may be the most overrated beach on the planet. It's been 40 years but I can't imagine it being any less unimpressive than when I saw it then. There are a lot of great beaches in Hawaii; Waikiki isn't one of them. We had three beaches when I was stationed on Midway Island which were better and I saw several better beaches on Oahu.

[TheGrassGuy]

Beaches are overrated.

Since I moved to a snowy-winter environment I have been doing about three week-long beach vacations per year and have loved them all, errrrr well most of them anyway.  A good book and a cooler full of soda and beer whisk so many cares away.

Edit to add:  I guess the one I wasn't that impressed with in the last few years was Honolulu/Waikiki.  And that was at the depths of the Covid-19 issues when it was probably as empty as it would ever be.  Hawaii has so many beautiful beaches on Maui and the Big Island, but I just didn't care much for Waikiki's urban environment.

Beaches in general aren't overrated, but Waikiki may be the most overrated beach on the planet. It's been 40 years but I can't imagine it being any less unimpressive than when I saw it then. There are a lot of great beaches in Hawaii; Waikiki isn't one of them. We had three beaches when I was stationed on Midway Island which were better and I saw several better beaches on Oahu.

I've even heard reports that the beach isn't natural, due to the presence of a layer of concrete below the sand.

[Max Rockatansky]

Beaches are overrated.

Since I moved to a snowy-winter environment I have been doing about three week-long beach vacations per year and have loved them all, errrrr well most of them anyway.  A good book and a cooler full of soda and beer whisk so many cares away.

Edit to add:  I guess the one I wasn't that impressed with in the last few years was Honolulu/Waikiki.  And that was at the depths of the Covid-19 issues when it was probably as empty as it would ever be.  Hawaii has so many beautiful beaches on Maui and the Big Island, but I just didn't care much for Waikiki's urban environment.

Beaches in general aren't overrated, but Waikiki may be the most overrated beach on the planet. It's been 40 years but I can't imagine it being any less unimpressive than when I saw it then. There are a lot of great beaches in Hawaii; Waikiki isn't one of them. We had three beaches when I was stationed on Midway Island which were better and I saw several better beaches on Oahu.

Waikiki was more interesting to walk around in than trying to spend time on it's fake beach.  All the better beaches on the Windward Side of Oahu.