__________ is/are overrated.

[kphoger]

There are even schools called the 'Medical College of Wisconsin' and the 'Milwaukee School of Engineering (MSOE)' that, to the best of my knowledge, are unaffiliated with any university.

Mike

The same Medical College of Wisconsin that does indeed offer MD and PhD programs?

Nylon pick

[GaryV]

There are even schools called the 'Medical College of Wisconsin' and the 'Milwaukee School of Engineering (MSOE)' that, to the best of my knowledge, are unaffiliated with any university.

How does that differ from private schools that do happen to have "university" in their name, e.g. University of Phoenix?

[kphoger]

How does that differ from private schools that do happen to have "university" in their name, e.g. University of Phoenix?

Or Harvard University, which is a private school.  Is there any real difference between a college and a university, other than a rough correlation to size?

Velcro strips

[JayhawkCO]

Or Harvard University, which is a private school.  Is there any real difference between a college and a university, other than a rough correlation to size?

In theory, a university consists of multiple colleges.

[1995hoo]

Or Harvard University, which is a private school.  Is there any real difference between a college and a university, other than a rough correlation to size?

In theory, a university consists of multiple colleges.

And then you have the College of William & Mary, which is a university but doesn't use that word. I believe the rationale is that its original charter from 1693 said it was to be known as a college.

[mgk920]

To the best of my knowledge, the 'Medical College of Wisconsin' (located in the Milwaukee area) has no connection with the University of Wisconsin (located in Madison).  UW Medical even has a residency clinic here in Appleton.

Mike

[DTComposer]

Or Harvard University, which is a private school.  Is there any real difference between a college and a university, other than a rough correlation to size?

In theory, a university consists of multiple colleges.

Also in theory (or at least historically), a university is supposed to be more "research-oriented" and has the ability to grant doctoral degrees.

For many years the "state schools" were branded as colleges instead of universities based on this difference - so you'd have University of Michigan and Michigan State College, University of Washington and Washington State College, etc. In the post-WWII boom many of the state college systems expanded both their size and focus and were granted "university" status.

[mgk920]

Also, right now, I would be more inclined to hire a lawyer who APPRENTICED his or her way into the  Bar - rolling up the sleeves and getting the hands dirty with practical real life experience the whole way (rather than graduating from this or that university law school with whatever built in agenda).

Mike

[kphoger]

To the best of my knowledge, the 'Medical College of Wisconsin' (located in the Milwaukee area) has no connection with the University of Wisconsin (located in Madison).

Mike

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.  Chicago State University has no connection with either Chicago Theological Seminary or The Chicago School of Professional Psychology.  So what?

DI box

[hbelkins]

The purpose of the degree has always been to show how smart you are to employers.

Better reread your history before making this point again!

The purpose of degrees has always been to show how smart you are to employers.

That sounds like a "university studies" degree or "general studies" degree.

You basically majored in nothing except going to school.

This is also known as the D1 athlete degree.

No, that's physical education.

[Molandfreak]

Also, right now, I would be more inclined to hire a lawyer who APPRENTICED his or her way into the  Bar - rolling up the sleeves and getting the hands dirty with practical real life experience the whole way (rather than graduating from this or that university law school with whatever built in agenda).

Mike

Ok, now we're actually getting somewhere to the heart of your issue, but pop quiz, hotshot:

Where did JD Vance do his apprenticeship? Where did Mike Pence do his apprenticeship? Where did Marco Rubio do his apprenticeship? Where did Ted Cruz do his apprenticeship?

That's right, they are all conservative, bar-admitted attorneys who studied at a traditional law school. In some states, you can do an apprenticeship in lieu of completing traditional law school, but nine times out of ten the apprenticeship route is simply not economically wise for several reasons:

• In California, those who have not attended an accredited law school are required to pass a "Baby Bar," which is notoriously more difficult than the actual bar exam and has a pass rate of around 10%. Chances are you are going to spend years trying to clear this hurdle if you do an apprenticeship. I'm sure there is a similar story in other states that accept apprenticeships in lieu of traditional law school.
• Some law firms who know they have a non-lawyer who wishes to become one will pay a portion of tuition at an accredited law school anyway, because it is the fastest option.

For other fields, it is a similar story where you can technically advance to a high-level position without a degree. However, it takes years to decades within lower-level positions where you may be just barely scraping by if you aren't independently wealthy or don't have a spouse who is already making the kind of money you would in the position you are aiming for.

For someone who is complaining so much about agendas, you sure are doing a ton to advance one on a forum that proports to be apolitical.

[Molandfreak]

By the way, Wisconsin is not a state that allows anyone to sit for their Bar unless they have received a JD from an ABA-accredited institution or are already admitted to the Bar in another state, so while it's not completely impossible, I would bet that the number of attorneys in Wisconsin who have not attended law school is very miniscule.

[mgk920]

By the way, Wisconsin is not a state that allows anyone to sit for their Bar unless they have received a JD from an ABA-accredited institution or are already admitted to the Bar in another state, so while it's not completely impossible, I would bet that the number of attorneys in Wisconsin who have not attended law school is very miniscule.

Those rules were made by men (and women) and they can so be similarly unmade.  BTW, how much formal post-secondary education did POTUS Harry S. Truman have (keeping in mind that he was a county judge before he was (reluctantly) swept up into national politics)?

Mike

[Roadgeekteen]

By the way, Wisconsin is not a state that allows anyone to sit for their Bar unless they have received a JD from an ABA-accredited institution or are already admitted to the Bar in another state, so while it's not completely impossible, I would bet that the number of attorneys in Wisconsin who have not attended law school is very miniscule.

Those rules were made by men (and women) and they can so be similarly unmade.  BTW, how much formal post-secondary education did POTUS Harry S. Truman have (keeping in mind that he was a county judge before he was (reluctantly) swept up into national politics)?

Mike

He attended Spalding's Commercial College, a community college, but did not get any degree.

[Molandfreak]

By the way, Wisconsin is not a state that allows anyone to sit for their Bar unless they have received a JD from an ABA-accredited institution or are already admitted to the Bar in another state, so while it's not completely impossible, I would bet that the number of attorneys in Wisconsin who have not attended law school is very miniscule.

Those rules were made by men (and women) and they can so be similarly unmade.  BTW, how much formal post-secondary education did POTUS Harry S. Truman have (keeping in mind that he was a county judge before he was (reluctantly) swept up into national politics)?

Mike

He attended Spalding's Commercial College, a community college, but did not get any degree.

Plus, the experience of someone born in 1884 is not going to be remotely comparable to someone alive today. In the 1930s, most municipal managers didn't even have a high school diploma. That would never fly today.

[Molandfreak]

Those rules were made by men (and women) and they can so be similarly unmade.

The point is if you are to seek out an attorney in Wisconsin today, you're going to have a tough time finding one who has never set foot in an ABA-accredited law school, either as a foreign attorney retraining with an LL.M, or someone with a traditional JD or LL.B from a school in the US.

[DTComposer]

By the way, Wisconsin is not a state that allows anyone to sit for their Bar unless they have received a JD from an ABA-accredited institution or are already admitted to the Bar in another state, so while it's not completely impossible, I would bet that the number of attorneys in Wisconsin who have not attended law school is very miniscule.

Those rules were made by men (and women) and they can so be similarly unmade.  BTW, how much formal post-secondary education did POTUS Harry S. Truman have (keeping in mind that he was a county judge before he was (reluctantly) swept up into national politics)?

Mike

He attended Spalding's Commercial College, a community college, but did not get any degree.

Plus, the experience of someone born in 1884 is not going to be remotely comparable to someone alive today. In the 1930s, most municipal managers didn't even have a high school diploma. That would never fly today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_the_United_States_by_education

So one president in the last 125 years did not graduate college, and no president in the last 73 years.

[Scott5114]

By the way, Wisconsin is not a state that allows anyone to sit for their Bar unless they have received a JD from an ABA-accredited institution or are already admitted to the Bar in another state, so while it's not completely impossible, I would bet that the number of attorneys in Wisconsin who have not attended law school is very miniscule.

Those rules were made by men (and women) and they can so be similarly unmade.  BTW, how much formal post-secondary education did POTUS Harry S. Truman have (keeping in mind that he was a county judge before he was (reluctantly) swept up into national politics)?

Mike

I seem to have lost track—what's the thing that's overrated here? Men? Women? Rules? Harry S. Truman? County judges?

[formulanone]

By the way, Wisconsin is not a state that allows anyone to sit for their Bar unless they have received a JD from an ABA-accredited institution or are already admitted to the Bar in another state, so while it's not completely impossible, I would bet that the number of attorneys in Wisconsin who have not attended law school is very miniscule.

Those rules were made by men (and women) and they can so be similarly unmade.  BTW, how much formal post-secondary education did POTUS Harry S. Truman have (keeping in mind that he was a county judge before he was (reluctantly) swept up into national politics)?

Mike

I seem to have lost track—what's the thing that's overrated here? Men? Women? Rules? Harry S. Truman? County judges?

Ugh, I'll use the pliers and extract the "Chipmunk Librarian Degree" or "Gender Refrigerator Studies" clap-trap that I bet at least one person wants to say, but won't say it, so we'll just pretend there's not a 238-pound elephant in the room, even if it actually doesn't matter a hill of beans what others do with their lives.

Sure, go get that apprenticeship and start your own job 5-10 years after making little to nothing per hour and spending the next 5+ years in debt for tools, equipment, advertising, transportation which is only "cheap" if you're joining the family business. Be your own boss...where a forty hour work week is actually an eighty hour work week! There's no problem with that, but that path is a totally different climb for everyone. I meet burnt-out technicians all the time and they get fed up with the body aches and the varying pay but have little other choices once they reach a certain age.

...so, that airplane food? I hate when the Biscoff are pre-crumbled.

[Roadgeekteen]

By the way, Wisconsin is not a state that allows anyone to sit for their Bar unless they have received a JD from an ABA-accredited institution or are already admitted to the Bar in another state, so while it's not completely impossible, I would bet that the number of attorneys in Wisconsin who have not attended law school is very miniscule.

Those rules were made by men (and women) and they can so be similarly unmade.  BTW, how much formal post-secondary education did POTUS Harry S. Truman have (keeping in mind that he was a county judge before he was (reluctantly) swept up into national politics)?

Mike

I seem to have lost track—what's the thing that's overrated here? Men? Women? Rules? Harry S. Truman? County judges?

Harry Truman is an underrated President

[DTComposer]

By the way, Wisconsin is not a state that allows anyone to sit for their Bar unless they have received a JD from an ABA-accredited institution or are already admitted to the Bar in another state, so while it's not completely impossible, I would bet that the number of attorneys in Wisconsin who have not attended law school is very miniscule.

Those rules were made by men (and women) and they can so be similarly unmade.  BTW, how much formal post-secondary education did POTUS Harry S. Truman have (keeping in mind that he was a county judge before he was (reluctantly) swept up into national politics)?

Mike

I seem to have lost track—what's the thing that's overrated here? Men? Women? Rules? Harry S. Truman? County judges?

Harry Truman is an underrated President

Is he? It seems most academic rankings put him in the #6-#10 spots, which is pretty damn good.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_United_States

[Roadgeekteen]

By the way, Wisconsin is not a state that allows anyone to sit for their Bar unless they have received a JD from an ABA-accredited institution or are already admitted to the Bar in another state, so while it's not completely impossible, I would bet that the number of attorneys in Wisconsin who have not attended law school is very miniscule.

Those rules were made by men (and women) and they can so be similarly unmade.  BTW, how much formal post-secondary education did POTUS Harry S. Truman have (keeping in mind that he was a county judge before he was (reluctantly) swept up into national politics)?

Mike

I seem to have lost track—what's the thing that's overrated here? Men? Women? Rules? Harry S. Truman? County judges?

Harry Truman is an underrated President

Is he? It seems most academic rankings put him in the #6-#10 spots, which is pretty damn good.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_United_States

Right after his presidency he had a terrible reputation. It's gotten better over time but most of the public only knows him for nukes and Korea.

[Rothman]

By the way, Wisconsin is not a state that allows anyone to sit for their Bar unless they have received a JD from an ABA-accredited institution or are already admitted to the Bar in another state, so while it's not completely impossible, I would bet that the number of attorneys in Wisconsin who have not attended law school is very miniscule.

Those rules were made by men (and women) and they can so be similarly unmade.  BTW, how much formal post-secondary education did POTUS Harry S. Truman have (keeping in mind that he was a county judge before he was (reluctantly) swept up into national politics)?

Mike

I seem to have lost track—what's the thing that's overrated here? Men? Women? Rules? Harry S. Truman? County judges?

Harry Truman is an underrated President

Is he? It seems most academic rankings put him in the #6-#10 spots, which is pretty damn good.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_United_States

Right after his presidency he had a terrible reputation. It's gotten better over time but most of the public only knows him for nukes and Korea.

Here you go again...

[Scott5114]

Here you go again...

No, that was Reagan.

[Roadgeekteen]

Here you go again...

No, that was Reagan.

Wait! That's someone who actually is overrated!