Worst control city on an interstate in your state

[kphoger]

... if you polled 100 random non-New Mexicans or people who live in the panhandle of Texas ...

Jayhawk said that he thinks most people even in the panhandle would not know it.

That's not how I read his post.  I parsed it like this:

if you polled 100 random non -{New Mexicans} or -{people who live in the panhandle of Texas}

That is to say, the non- part applies to both sets.

[roadman65]

Sometimes I'm tempted to run a survey (outside the forum) to find out how many people actually know these towns that roadgeeks think are well known. Tucumcari. Fort Stockton. Green River. Winnemucca. (Limon.) I would guess that at least 75% of Americans couldn't tell you where any of those towns are, or what highways go through them. Far less than 1% would know all five.

Interestingly, I had personally driven through Fort Stockton, Green River, and Limon all before I'd even graduated high school.  So, even though I grew up 710 miles, 565 miles, and 170 miles away (respectively) from them, my dad and I certainly knew where they were.

And I certainly knew as a kid what state Winnemucca was in, just from paging through an atlas.  It's a "big dot" town on I-80 in an otherwise barren part of the state, and it has an interesting name.  You might be underestimating the number of people who enjoy casually flipping through their Rand McNally once in a while.  I certainly know a few non-roadgeeks who do.

People have changed over time.  I knew of people I worked with in Orlando who had no idea where Winter Park was despite it being a suburb to the north directly bordering Orlando.   Then I’ve heard one person who never heard of Altamonte Springs, a popular retail destination in Central Florida part of the Orlando area.  This was pre GPS and cell phone era.

Add the GPS to it and it makes more ignorance to anything else the GPS tell you.  Remember most people wait for either the verbal or screen instructions for instructions on where to drive to. Details around you, are not even comprehended.  I worked at the Beeline West in Orlando ( toll plaza at MM 8 on FL 528) and people arriving from nearby Orlando Airport are asking me “where are the nearest restaurants cause I just got off the plane and I’m starving?”  Considering the north exit from the airport to FL 528 is located at a strip of every chain restaurant imaginable well seen from the cone a view of a driver heading into the 528 ramps, their minds are focused on the instructions that the GPS is giving and worrying about the cars around them.  They won’t  see even a large billboard attracting attention, let alone the road ahead with food establishments they’re looking for.

[kphoger]

People have changed over time.  I knew of people I worked with in Orlando who had no idea where Winter Park was despite it being a suburb to the north directly bordering Orlando.   Then I've heard one person who never heard of Altamonte Springs, a popular retail destination in Central Florida part of the Orlando area.  This was pre GPS and cell phone era.

People living in big cities are different.  When you never have any need to drive any farther than thirty miles for any reason, then your knowledge of the outside world can be very limited in scope.  In contrast, people who do actually drive for travel tend to have a wider knowledge of the outside world.

Beyond that, as I said, there is a decent number of people who enjoy some casual atlas-flipping, planning an armchair road trip, from time to time.

(I remember telling someone in Kansas City that we were from western Kansas.  Their answer was "you mean, like, Salina?"  No, we said, Salina isn't in western Kansas.  They then looked at us with an uncomprehending blank stare.  Contrast that with the people I grew up around in western Kansas, most of whom could tell you multiple routes for driving to each of Denver, Wichita, Lincoln, etc.)

[SkyPesos]

(I remember telling someone in Kansas City that we were from western Kansas.  Their answer was "you mean, like, Salina?"  No, we said, Salina isn't in western Kansas.  They then looked at us with an uncomprehending blank stare.  Contrast that with the people I grew up around in western Kansas, most of whom could tell you multiple routes for driving to each of Denver, Wichita, Lincoln, etc.)

Sounds like Bostonians calling Worcester "western Massachusetts" .

[JoePCool14]

First off, in my experience, most Americans don't know how to get anywhere that's more than 100 miles away if that. I know people who have lived in DuPage County their whole lives and they are clueless how to get to say Rockford. That being said, there are some places that stand out more than others regardless of population. Take Wisconsin Dells or Vail or Pigeon Forge. None of those are towns that are any bigger than Tucumcari. But they are know as tourist places.  But if you do any traveling in the west or southwest, you do notice towns like Tucumcari as halfway points between the bigger cities.

Back in high school, there was a Costco that we would get lunch from sometimes that was about half a mile away from the school how the crow flies. Some of my friends couldn't even figure out how to get there from the school. It was two left turns. It's embarrassing how people can't navigate themselves these days.

The roadgeek in me knew how to direct people to places when I was around 6 or 7. Not that I expect every 6-year-old to have that capability.

[JayhawkCO]

... if you polled 100 random non-New Mexicans or people who live in the panhandle of Texas ...

Jayhawk said that he thinks most people even in the panhandle would not know it.

That's not how I read his post.  I parsed it like this:

if you polled 100 random non -{New Mexicans} or -{people who live in the panhandle of Texas}

That is to say, the non- part applies to both sets.

That's indeed how I meant it. Sorry for the lack of clarity.

[hobsini2]

People have changed over time.  I knew of people I worked with in Orlando who had no idea where Winter Park was despite it being a suburb to the north directly bordering Orlando.   Then I've heard one person who never heard of Altamonte Springs, a popular retail destination in Central Florida part of the Orlando area.  This was pre GPS and cell phone era.

People living in big cities are different.  When you never have any need to drive any farther than thirty miles for any reason, then your knowledge of the outside world can be very limited in scope.  In contrast, people who do actually drive for travel tend to have a wider knowledge of the outside world.

Beyond that, as I said, there is a decent number of people who enjoy some casual atlas-flipping, planning an armchair road trip, from time to time.

(I remember telling someone in Kansas City that we were from western Kansas.  Their answer was "you mean, like, Salina?"  No, we said, Salina isn't in western Kansas.  They then looked at us with an uncomprehending blank stare.  Contrast that with the people I grew up around in western Kansas, most of whom could tell you multiple routes for driving to each of Denver, Wichita, Lincoln, etc.)

It's kind of like the phenomenon here with people in Chicagoland. Unless you are a roadgeek or from downstate, to most people from here, anything south of I-80 in a lot of peoples minds is "Downstate" when in a geographical sense, Downstate doesn't start in reality until you are south of the Springfield-Champaign corridor.

[hobsini2]

... if you polled 100 random non-New Mexicans or people who live in the panhandle of Texas ...

Jayhawk said that he thinks most people even in the panhandle would not know it.

That's not how I read his post.  I parsed it like this:

if you polled 100 random non -{New Mexicans} or -{people who live in the panhandle of Texas}

That is to say, the non- part applies to both sets.

That's indeed how I meant it. Sorry for the lack of clarity.

My apologizes Jayhawk.

[JayhawkCO]

... if you polled 100 random non-New Mexicans or people who live in the panhandle of Texas ...

Jayhawk said that he thinks most people even in the panhandle would not know it.

That's not how I read his post.  I parsed it like this:

if you polled 100 random non -{New Mexicans} or -{people who live in the panhandle of Texas}

That is to say, the non- part applies to both sets.

That's indeed how I meant it. Sorry for the lack of clarity.

My apologizes Jayhawk.

Zero offense taken.

[JoePCool14]

People have changed over time.  I knew of people I worked with in Orlando who had no idea where Winter Park was despite it being a suburb to the north directly bordering Orlando.   Then I’ve heard one person who never heard of Altamonte Springs, a popular retail destination in Central Florida part of the Orlando area.  This was pre GPS and cell phone era.

People living in big cities are different.  When you never have any need to drive any farther than thirty miles for any reason, then your knowledge of the outside world can be very limited in scope.  In contrast, people who do actually drive for travel tend to have a wider knowledge of the outside world.

Beyond that, as I said, there is a decent number of people who enjoy some casual atlas-flipping, planning an armchair road trip, from time to time.

(I remember telling someone in Kansas City that we were from western Kansas.  Their answer was "you mean, like, Salina?"  No, we said, Salina isn't in western Kansas.  They then looked at us with an uncomprehending blank stare.  Contrast that with the people I grew up around in western Kansas, most of whom could tell you multiple routes for driving to each of Denver, Wichita, Lincoln, etc.)

It's kind of like the phenomenon here with people in Chicagoland. Unless you are a roadgeek or from downstate, to most people from here, anything south of I-80 in a lot of peoples minds is "Downstate" when in a geographical sense, Downstate doesn't start in reality until you are south of the Springfield-Champaign corridor.

But "Downstate" is really more of a political and cultural term than a geographical one. Technically, south of I-80 is "downstate" of Chicago. Even some consider Galena as "downstate". It's a similar debate for "Up North" in Michigan.

[hbelkins]

We have a thread on what constitutes "upstate New York," which I was reminded of yesterday watching a "Law & Order" rerun.

Van Buren referred to Nyack as being "upstate," and I yelled at the TV, "Nyack's not upstate! It's in the metro area!"

[CtrlAltDel]

It's kind of like the phenomenon here with people in Chicagoland. Unless you are a roadgeek or from downstate, to most people from here, anything south of I-80 in a lot of peoples minds is "Downstate" when in a geographical sense, Downstate doesn't start in reality until you are south of the Springfield-Champaign corridor.

But "Downstate" is really more of a political and cultural term than a geographical one. Technically, south of I-80 is "downstate" of Chicago. Even some consider Galena as "downstate". It's a similar debate for "Up North" in Michigan.

Geographically speaking, wouldn't "downstate" be underground?

I'll show myself out.

[kirbykart]

Sometimes I'm tempted to run a survey (outside the forum) to find out how many people actually know these towns that roadgeeks think are well known. Tucumcari. Fort Stockton. Green River. Winnemucca. (Limon.) I would guess that at least 75% of Americans couldn't tell you where any of those towns are, or what highways go through them. Far less than 1% would know all five.

Interestingly, I had personally driven through Fort Stockton, Green River, and Limon all before I'd even graduated high school.  So, even though I grew up 710 miles, 565 miles, and 170 miles away (respectively) from them, my dad and I certainly knew where they were.

And I certainly knew as a kid what state Winnemucca was in, just from paging through an atlas.  It's a "big dot" town on I-80 in an otherwise barren part of the state, and it has an interesting name.  You might be underestimating the number of people who enjoy casually flipping through their Rand McNally once in a while.  I certainly know a few non-roadgeeks who do.

Yeah, I also think a good chunk of people could tell you at least what state Winnemucca is in. I'm sure many know Ely and Tonopah as well.

  Limon and Tucumcari, on the other hand... Never heard of either before joining this forum. Same for Green River, UT, and I've never even heard of this "Fort Stockton" place. (Just Googled... Wow, it's in west Texas! Would have guessed Colorado or Wyoming. Is this actually used as a control? [OTOH, there's basically nothing else between El Paso and San Antonio, which I understand to be an extremely long distance {over 500 miles}]).

[JoePCool14]

It's kind of like the phenomenon here with people in Chicagoland. Unless you are a roadgeek or from downstate, to most people from here, anything south of I-80 in a lot of peoples minds is "Downstate" when in a geographical sense, Downstate doesn't start in reality until you are south of the Springfield-Champaign corridor.

But "Downstate" is really more of a political and cultural term than a geographical one. Technically, south of I-80 is "downstate" of Chicago. Even some consider Galena as "downstate". It's a similar debate for "Up North" in Michigan.

Geographically speaking, wouldn't "downstate" be underground?

I'll show myself out.

Actually, this is down State.

[kphoger]

People have changed over time.  I knew of people I worked with in Orlando who had no idea where Winter Park was despite it being a suburb to the north directly bordering Orlando.   Then I've heard one person who never heard of Altamonte Springs, a popular retail destination in Central Florida part of the Orlando area.  This was pre GPS and cell phone era.

People living in big cities are different.  When you never have any need to drive any farther than thirty miles for any reason, then your knowledge of the outside world can be very limited in scope.  In contrast, people who do actually drive for travel tend to have a wider knowledge of the outside world.

Beyond that, as I said, there is a decent number of people who enjoy some casual atlas-flipping, planning an armchair road trip, from time to time.

(I remember telling someone in Kansas City that we were from western Kansas.  Their answer was "you mean, like, Salina?"  No, we said, Salina isn't in western Kansas.  They then looked at us with an uncomprehending blank stare.  Contrast that with the people I grew up around in western Kansas, most of whom could tell you multiple routes for driving to each of Denver, Wichita, Lincoln, etc.)

It's kind of like the phenomenon here with people in Chicagoland. Unless you are a roadgeek or from downstate, to most people from here, anything south of I-80 in a lot of peoples minds is "Downstate" when in a geographical sense, Downstate doesn't start in reality until you are south of the Springfield-Champaign corridor.

But "Downstate" is really more of a political and cultural term than a geographical one. Technically, south of I-80 is "downstate" of Chicago. Even some consider Galena as "downstate". It's a similar debate for "Up North" in Michigan.

I'm OK with the liberal definition of "downstate" in Illinois.  But people in Chicago also tend to think it's synonymous with "southern Illinois", such that Springfield is in southern Illinois.  It isn't.

[Flint1979]

People have changed over time.  I knew of people I worked with in Orlando who had no idea where Winter Park was despite it being a suburb to the north directly bordering Orlando.   Then I've heard one person who never heard of Altamonte Springs, a popular retail destination in Central Florida part of the Orlando area.  This was pre GPS and cell phone era.

People living in big cities are different.  When you never have any need to drive any farther than thirty miles for any reason, then your knowledge of the outside world can be very limited in scope.  In contrast, people who do actually drive for travel tend to have a wider knowledge of the outside world.

Beyond that, as I said, there is a decent number of people who enjoy some casual atlas-flipping, planning an armchair road trip, from time to time.

(I remember telling someone in Kansas City that we were from western Kansas.  Their answer was "you mean, like, Salina?"  No, we said, Salina isn't in western Kansas.  They then looked at us with an uncomprehending blank stare.  Contrast that with the people I grew up around in western Kansas, most of whom could tell you multiple routes for driving to each of Denver, Wichita, Lincoln, etc.)

It's kind of like the phenomenon here with people in Chicagoland. Unless you are a roadgeek or from downstate, to most people from here, anything south of I-80 in a lot of peoples minds is "Downstate" when in a geographical sense, Downstate doesn't start in reality until you are south of the Springfield-Champaign corridor.

But "Downstate" is really more of a political and cultural term than a geographical one. Technically, south of I-80 is "downstate" of Chicago. Even some consider Galena as "downstate". It's a similar debate for "Up North" in Michigan.

I saw someone awhile back that was from Wayne, Michigan (a suburb of Detroit) and this was in St. Charles in the middle of Saginaw County. He said this is up north to him I said heck you aren't even up north yet you still have probably an hour to go. It all depends on who you ask though to some people it's the Zilwaukee Bridge, US-10, M-55, West Branch, Standish, Clare, Ludington and so on. It's probably close to M-46 though but on the eastern side of the state you certainly don't feel up north when your in Saginaw.

[GaryV]

It's kind of like the phenomenon here with people in Chicagoland. Unless you are a roadgeek or from downstate, to most people from here, anything south of I-80 in a lot of peoples minds is "Downstate" when in a geographical sense, Downstate doesn't start in reality until you are south of the Springfield-Champaign corridor.

But "Downstate" is really more of a political and cultural term than a geographical one. Technically, south of I-80 is "downstate" of Chicago. Even some consider Galena as "downstate". It's a similar debate for "Up North" in Michigan.

Geographically speaking, wouldn't "downstate" be underground?

I'll show myself out.

No, it would be in the depths of the valleys in non-flat Illinois.
ba-dum boom

[SEWIGuy]

People have changed over time.  I knew of people I worked with in Orlando who had no idea where Winter Park was despite it being a suburb to the north directly bordering Orlando.   Then I've heard one person who never heard of Altamonte Springs, a popular retail destination in Central Florida part of the Orlando area.  This was pre GPS and cell phone era.

People living in big cities are different.  When you never have any need to drive any farther than thirty miles for any reason, then your knowledge of the outside world can be very limited in scope.  In contrast, people who do actually drive for travel tend to have a wider knowledge of the outside world.

Beyond that, as I said, there is a decent number of people who enjoy some casual atlas-flipping, planning an armchair road trip, from time to time.

(I remember telling someone in Kansas City that we were from western Kansas.  Their answer was "you mean, like, Salina?"  No, we said, Salina isn't in western Kansas.  They then looked at us with an uncomprehending blank stare.  Contrast that with the people I grew up around in western Kansas, most of whom could tell you multiple routes for driving to each of Denver, Wichita, Lincoln, etc.)

It's kind of like the phenomenon here with people in Chicagoland. Unless you are a roadgeek or from downstate, to most people from here, anything south of I-80 in a lot of peoples minds is "Downstate" when in a geographical sense, Downstate doesn't start in reality until you are south of the Springfield-Champaign corridor.

But "Downstate" is really more of a political and cultural term than a geographical one. Technically, south of I-80 is "downstate" of Chicago. Even some consider Galena as "downstate". It's a similar debate for "Up North" in Michigan.

I'm OK with the liberal definition of "downstate" in Illinois.  But people in Chicago also tend to think it's synonymous with "southern Illinois", such that Springfield is in southern Illinois.  It isn't.

I don't necessarily agree with this. I think most people from Chicago have a good understanding where Springfield is.

[dvferyance]

Wisconsin doesn't really have any bad ones. Except for Hudson which is occasionally used on I-94 WB. For many years I didn't care for Tomah but I get it now it's a place where both interstates go. I really don't get why control city freak only gave Wisconsin a C I think it deserved a better grade at least a B.

[kirbykart]

^Wisconsin is pretty weird though. Fond du Lac isn't great

Tomah

Where? I'm not a huge fan of using junction towns as primary controls (maybe as secondaries). I don't like La Crosse too much either.
Then there's Wausau on I-39

[Flint1979]

^Wisconsin is pretty weird though. Fond du Lac isn't great

Tomah

Where? I'm not a huge fan of using junction towns as primary controls (maybe as secondaries). I don't like La Crosse too much either.
Then there's Wausau on I-39

All those control cities are fine there is nothing wrong with any of them. Almost all these cities are decent sized cities in Wisconsin. Like what's wrong with La Crosse? It's the largest city on the western border of Wisconsin, it's a college town with over 20,000 students and is a transportation hub.

[roadman65]

What I get is the fact that some cities pick and choose cities either the old US routes it replaced to use on interstates or a once former terminus of the freeway.  However, New York finally realized that Scranton for I-84 West is best interest for motorists in Orange County over previous Port Jervis used because I-84 finally made it in PA  later on in the game.

It's about time NJ DOT does for I-78 replacing the former US 22 places with Allentown heading west from Newark.  Ditto for LaDOTD using Bay St. Louis on I-10 at Slidell and now use Mobile as that is the next major city. Heck even Gulfport is better than what is there now.

[mgk920]

^Wisconsin is pretty weird though. Fond du Lac isn't great

Tomah

Where? I'm not a huge fan of using junction towns as primary controls (maybe as secondaries). I don't like La Crosse too much either.
Then there's Wausau on I-39

Well, going northwestward from Wisconsin Dells, WI, it would otherwise be a choice between La Crosse or Eau Claire.  OTOH, most people there already know where 'Tomah' is and of its importance to the transport network in the state.  It is sort of similar to the importance of 'Cove Fort' (a real 'blip on the map' if there ever was one) to points west of the Rockies on I-70.

Mike

[dvferyance]

^Wisconsin is pretty weird though. Fond du Lac isn't great

Tomah

Where? I'm not a huge fan of using junction towns as primary controls (maybe as secondaries). I don't like La Crosse too much either.
Then there's Wausau on I-39

Well, going northwestward from Wisconsin Dells, WI, it would otherwise be a choice between La Crosse or Eau Claire.  OTOH, most people there already know where 'Tomah' is and of its importance to the transport network in the state.  It is sort of similar to the importance of 'Cove Fort' (a real 'blip on the map' if there ever was one) to points west of the Rockies on I-70.

Mike

Until recently I felt the same way. But I get it now. The problem is if you use either La Crosse or Eau Claire you are alienating the other interstate it doesn't go to. It's not like Tomah is ever used going EB.

[roadman65]

https://goo.gl/maps/gqLbki3PJUJBFvTt6

This guide sign takes the cake.

Port Jervis is actually ahead on on straight through US 6 & 209, not onto the freeway.  Though the freeway here does connect again later to US 6 to return to Port Jervis, why direct someone past the said city to loop back to it.

Newburgh needs to be posted here instead.