Worst control city on an interstate in your state

[mgk920]

Not my state, but California's "Beach Cities" on CA-91 is groan-inducing. Am I supposed to know which of the ten trillion cities in Orange County have beaches and which don't?

IIRC, the mileage sign (which I think is gone) just past CA-71 listed Beach Cities at 43 miles - meaning the Beach Cities wasn't even referring to Orange County, but to Manhattan Beach/Redondo Beach/Hermosa Beach at the historical end of CA-91 (at CA-1).

All the recent re-signing projects have doubled down on Beach Cities - not sure why Anaheim isn't an acceptable control for CA-91 westbound.

That's like 'Shore Points' on EB I-195 in New Jersey.

Mike

[DTComposer]

Not my state, but California's "Beach Cities" on CA-91 is groan-inducing. Am I supposed to know which of the ten trillion cities in Orange County have beaches and which don't?

IIRC, the mileage sign (which I think is gone) just past CA-71 listed Beach Cities at 43 miles - meaning the Beach Cities wasn't even referring to Orange County, but to Manhattan Beach/Redondo Beach/Hermosa Beach at the historical end of CA-91 (at CA-1).

All the recent re-signing projects have doubled down on Beach Cities - not sure why Anaheim isn't an acceptable control for CA-91 westbound.

That's like 'Shore Points' on EB I-195 in New Jersey.

Mike

And of course, "Other Desert Cities" on I-10.
What really bothers me about that is not just that vagueness, but that it's co-signed with Indio - so it ignores that one of those "other" cities is Palm Springs - an internationally-known destination.

It wasn't a population thing, since Palm Springs was larger than Indio when those signs were put up (and was larger until the mid-'90s). It wasn't a direct connection thing, since Palm Springs is just a few miles down CA-111 or Indian Canyon Road from I-10, and Caltrans uses non-direct destinations all the time (San Francisco on I-5, for example). Signing I-10 as Palm Springs/Indio just makes sense to me.

[hobsini2]

I-80 west used to have Moline

I have an early childhood memory of that, from the 80/55 interchange, in the mid- to late-1980s.  But for some reason I was thinking the signs said Rock Island instead.

The I-80/55 Interchange used to say Des Moines and Toledo in the 1980s. Moline/Rock Island along with Gary, Indiana was only used at smaller interchanges starting at US 30 Maple St.

Streetview in 2019:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.520737,-87.9958213,3a,15y,126.87h,91.39t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sqyTWFWp9tc9M8wV93xNPsQ!2e0!5s20190901T000000!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-1.3863218745748895%26panoid%3DqyTWFWp9tc9M8wV93xNPsQ%26yaw%3D126.87071376307884!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDYxMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

When IDOT reconstructed the 30 interchange in 2021, the sign changed to Iowa and Indiana.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5206797,-87.9957522,3a,75y,124.82h,96.3t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sjvocErq50ElVP5gD_7qehQ!2e0!5s20221101T000000!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-6.298654863004444%26panoid%3DjvocErq50ElVP5gD_7qehQ%26yaw%3D124.82390835123319!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDYxMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

You can still find a few Gary, Indiana relics in Joliet (Briggs St, Richards St, 52/53 Chicago St and Center St) but not for long.

[kphoger]

I-80 west used to have Moline

I have an early childhood memory of that, from the 80/55 interchange, in the mid- to late-1980s.  But for some reason I was thinking the signs said Rock Island instead.

The I-80/55 Interchange used to say Des Moines and Toledo in the 1980s. Moline/Rock Island along with Gary, Indiana was only used at smaller interchanges starting at US 30 Maple St.

It must just be a false memory, then, because I'm certain my memory is of the 80/55 interchange.  I specifically remember it because, just west of the interchange, were the first hitchhikers I ever remember seeing as a kid—a family with suitcases hitching from the shoulder.  I grew up in New Lenox through third grade, so we drove through that interchange whenever we went south or west.

I remember wondering as a young child where there was an island anywhere nearby in Illinois, but I suppose maybe I'm conflating two different memories:  one of I-80 at I-55, the other from somewhere else.

[thenetwork]

I-80 west used to have Moline

I have an early childhood memory of that, from the 80/55 interchange, in the mid- to late-1980s.  But for some reason I was thinking the signs said Rock Island instead.

The I-80/55 Interchange used to say Des Moines and Toledo in the 1980s. Moline/Rock Island along with Gary, Indiana was only used at smaller interchanges starting at US 30 Maple St.

It must just be a false memory, then, because I'm certain my memory is of the 80/55 interchange.  I specifically remember it because, just west of the interchange, were the first hitchhikers I ever remember seeing as a kid—a family with suitcases hitching from the shoulder.  I grew up in New Lenox through third grade, so we drove through that interchange whenever we went south or west.

I remember wondering as a young child where there was an island anywhere nearby in Illinois, but I suppose maybe I'm conflating two different memories:  one of I-80 at I-55, the other from somewhere else.

Back when Toledo and Moline were listed on the overheads at the 80/55 interchange, you could still make out the "shadows" of the US-66 shields that were scraped off after 66 was decommissioned.

[mrsman]

Not my state, but California's "Beach Cities" on CA-91 is groan-inducing. Am I supposed to know which of the ten trillion cities in Orange County have beaches and which don't?

IIRC, the mileage sign (which I think is gone) just past CA-71 listed Beach Cities at 43 miles - meaning the Beach Cities wasn't even referring to Orange County, but to Manhattan Beach/Redondo Beach/Hermosa Beach at the historical end of CA-91 (at CA-1).

All the recent re-signing projects have doubled down on Beach Cities - not sure why Anaheim isn't an acceptable control for CA-91 westbound.

That's like 'Shore Points' on EB I-195 in New Jersey.

Mike

And of course, "Other Desert Cities" on I-10.
What really bothers me about that is not just that vagueness, but that it's co-signed with Indio - so it ignores that one of those "other" cities is Palm Springs - an internationally-known destination.

It wasn't a population thing, since Palm Springs was larger than Indio when those signs were put up (and was larger until the mid-'90s). It wasn't a direct connection thing, since Palm Springs is just a few miles down CA-111 or Indian Canyon Road from I-10, and Caltrans uses non-direct destinations all the time (San Francisco on I-5, for example). Signing I-10 as Palm Springs/Indio just makes sense to me.

I agree with Anaheim as a better control for CA-91 than Beach Cities.  I always assumed Beach Cities referred to the OC beaches since they are closer to Inland Empire, more of a connection between OC and IE than between southern LA county and IE **, and it always seemed like a good corollary to 55 north that had  Riverside as its control (until more recently where they have inexplicably added Anaheim/Riverside, even at the junction of I-5).*  55 north heads to Riverside if you continue on the trajectory of the roadway and make the turn onto 91, and in reverse  55 south is a left exit off the 91 and the first major interchange west of the Santa Ana Canyon that existed, prior to the toll road construction.  Given that the controls were 55 south to Newport Beach and 91 west to Los Angeles, it would seem that Newport Beach (and some of the other nearby OC beaches) were contemplated by Beach Cities.  But obviously, if you found a mileage sign that disputes that, great.

Indio, while lesser known than Palm Springs, was historically the main highway junction in the area as US 60-70-99 split into 99 heading to El Centro and 60-70 heading to Arizona.  We still have the CA-86 freeway junction there today.  Given that "Other Desert Cities" was usually below Indio, and CA practice usually put the closer city first on the BGS, I assume that other desert cities meant the small towns further east from Indio (or further south along CA-86).  Blythe is very small.  IMO, no good reason that Phoenix should not be signed in place of "Other Desert Cities".  But Caltrans seems to just copy the old signage when replacing, even when there are actual issues with the messaging on the signs.

* Yes to Anaheim as a control for 91 west in Riverside County.  No to Anaheim as a control for 55 north, when following it will take you away from Disneyland, Downtown Anaheim, and Anaheim Stadium.  "Anaheim Hills", "East Anaheim" or "Yorba Linda" would be better for 55.  I understand Caltrans wants to distinguish the controls on 55 from those on 241, and if you are in southern OC, it makes no sense to take 55 to Riverside instead of 241, even with the toll, but the controls should make sense.  Like most Caltrans practice, the sign should lead towards the center of Anaheim if they use Anaheim as a control.

** Connections between OC and IE.  First, IE is closer to OC than to LA's South Bay.  Second a lot more IE people who commute via 91 are going to OC area, not LA county.  Even for those who work in the South Bay or LAX areas, I assume that more would commute using 60-605-105 than 91 as 91 has historically been a much busier corridor, whereas traffic on 60 is better since the traffic load can be shared with 10 and 210.  Third, during the period from 1951 all the way to the mid-1980s, all of Greater Los Angeles was in two area codes: 213 and 714.  714 incorporated some of the very eastern parts of LA county like Pomona, but it was mostly OC, SB, and Riverside Counties, while most of LA county (including the San Gabriel Valley) was 213.  Most of OC and most of IE shared an area code (714) all the way to 1992 when 909 was created.  Fourth, given the geography and everything else, a lot of sports allegiances meant that IE, especially the Riverside County portion, favored Angels, Ducks, and Rams (when they played in Anaheim) over Dodgers, Kings, and Raiders (when they played at the Coliseum).  Just a long way of saying that if a person in western Riverside county were headed to "the beach" they were far more likely heading to Huntington/Newport/Laguna over Redondo/Hermosa/Manhattan.

[Scott5114]

Geez, they put Beach Cities on a freakin' mileage sign? Wonder if that was ever the case with other Desert Cities...