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Author Topic: I-69 Ohio River Bridge  (Read 298341 times)

seicer

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1075 on: March 15, 2021, 01:41:54 PM »

Speaking of those US Route 41 bridges, the report on those spans can be found at https://i69ohiorivercrossing.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/59_Appendix_O-1_US_41_Bridges_Engineering_and_Evaluation_Report.pdf

Interesting tidbit: "The Engineering Report concludes that extending the life of the existing northbound and/or southbound US 41 bridge to 2060 is feasible. The southbound bridge will be 95 years old and the northbound bridge will be 128 years old at that time, but no fatal flaw is identified that would prevent this kind of life extension, assuming the necessary investments in regular maintenance and periodic major rehabilitation are made."

Relating to the eyebars: "The risk of fracture is mitigated somewhat by the parallel nature of the members: eyebars occur in pairs, or in some members as 4 or 6 bars. With regard to the pins, stress demand appears to be fairly low. Continued vigilance in bi-annual fracture critical inspection is assumed. An in-depth inspection of pins, including non-destructive testing, should be performed to confirm no proactive intervention is warranted now or at 2025. This study includes approximately $1M cost (2017 dollars) in anticipation of the need for isolated response to pin and eyebar concerns over the 2025 to 2060-time horizon (see 2045 Major Steel Repair). "
« Last Edit: March 15, 2021, 01:47:22 PM by seicer »
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andy

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1076 on: April 02, 2021, 12:34:50 AM »

A virtual public meeting was held April 1, 2021. Details at https://i69ohiorivercrossing.com/virtual-public-meeting/
Comments are being accepted until April 16, 2021.

Major take aways;
US 41 will not be tolled, partly to minimize financial impact on Henderson businesses.
The river bridges will be narrowed, eliminating the potential to expand to six lanes.
The Indiana ramps to US 41 have been simplified.
The Kentucky ramps have been modified.
Two phase construction. Starting in 2022, south from US60, through 2025. Then north of US60 from 2025 through 2031.
The timeline is based on funding and may be accelerated if  additional funding is identified.
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Life in Paradise

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1077 on: April 02, 2021, 12:07:32 PM »

A virtual public meeting was held April 1, 2021. Details at https://i69ohiorivercrossing.com/virtual-public-meeting/
Comments are being accepted until April 16, 2021.

Major take aways;
US 41 will not be tolled, partly to minimize financial impact on Henderson businesses.
The river bridges will be narrowed, eliminating the potential to expand to six lanes.
The Indiana ramps to US 41 have been simplified.
The Kentucky ramps have been modified.
Two phase construction. Starting in 2022, south from US60, through 2025. Then north of US60 from 2025 through 2031.
The timeline is based on funding and may be accelerated if  additional funding is identified.
I feel that it's a major error to narrow the river bridges.  The cost to make the road wide enough for three lanes is by far the cheapest  during the initial construction.  US41 has a lot of traffic currently, and when I-69 is completed to Indianapolis, that will increase the traffic over the bridge, even though they will have a two lane free option.
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seicer

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1078 on: April 02, 2021, 01:53:02 PM »

Are there considerations for pedestrians and cyclists on the new bridge? That would be a major omission considering the old bridge that will remain in service cannot handle those at all.

Revive 755

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1079 on: April 02, 2021, 10:05:56 PM »

A virtual public meeting was held April 1, 2021. Details at https://i69ohiorivercrossing.com/virtual-public-meeting/

The I-69/Veteran's Memorial Pakrway interchange design still seems bad - it would cost that much more to have a three level free-flow design, rather than having a stoplight that will probably become a high accident location?
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mvak36

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1080 on: April 02, 2021, 11:15:19 PM »

A virtual public meeting was held April 1, 2021. Details at https://i69ohiorivercrossing.com/virtual-public-meeting/
Comments are being accepted until April 16, 2021.

Major take aways;
US 41 will not be tolled, partly to minimize financial impact on Henderson businesses.
The river bridges will be narrowed, eliminating the potential to expand to six lanes.
The Indiana ramps to US 41 have been simplified.
The Kentucky ramps have been modified.
Two phase construction. Starting in 2022, south from US60, through 2025. Then north of US60 from 2025 through 2031.
The timeline is based on funding and may be accelerated if  additional funding is identified.
I feel that it's a major error to narrow the river bridges.  The cost to make the road wide enough for three lanes is by far the cheapest  during the initial construction.  US41 has a lot of traffic currently, and when I-69 is completed to Indianapolis, that will increase the traffic over the bridge, even though they will have a two lane free option.
They’re tolling that bridge anyways so I don’t know why they can’t just build it so it can be expanded in the future if needed. I agree with you that it would be cheaper to do it now.
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edwaleni

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1081 on: April 04, 2021, 07:18:25 PM »

Speaking of those US Route 41 bridges, the report on those spans can be found at https://i69ohiorivercrossing.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/59_Appendix_O-1_US_41_Bridges_Engineering_and_Evaluation_Report.pdf

Interesting tidbit: "The Engineering Report concludes that extending the life of the existing northbound and/or southbound US 41 bridge to 2060 is feasible. The southbound bridge will be 95 years old and the northbound bridge will be 128 years old at that time, but no fatal flaw is identified that would prevent this kind of life extension, assuming the necessary investments in regular maintenance and periodic major rehabilitation are made."

Relating to the eyebars: "The risk of fracture is mitigated somewhat by the parallel nature of the members: eyebars occur in pairs, or in some members as 4 or 6 bars. With regard to the pins, stress demand appears to be fairly low. Continued vigilance in bi-annual fracture critical inspection is assumed. An in-depth inspection of pins, including non-destructive testing, should be performed to confirm no proactive intervention is warranted now or at 2025. This study includes approximately $1M cost (2017 dollars) in anticipation of the need for isolated response to pin and eyebar concerns over the 2025 to 2060-time horizon (see 2045 Major Steel Repair). "

That engineering and evaluation is too high level.

Nothing was mentioned about seismic resiliency. As noted in a previous post, those older bridges rely very heavily on plate bolting to the supporting piers, bolting easily stripped by sway vacilation from a sustained tremblor above 6.0.

The Chester Bridge used a similar design and it toppled over in 1940 due to a derecho that the upper span could not absorb and stripped out the plate bolts. An seismic event would simply bring the sway from underneath instead of over the top.

Same result.
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seicer

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1082 on: April 04, 2021, 08:46:43 PM »

Not entirely. A determination was made to keep the existing bridge in service because it's still in good, serviceable condition and that it can withstand the low impact of the more routine earthquakes that happen. Of course standards have changed and evolved over time but that doesn't mean that we need to completely rebuild our infrastructure from scratch to accommodate an issue that may not occur for centuries. As it is, there is no funding to replace any of the bridges for US Route 41, and there isn't the political will to route all through traffic over a tolled crossing.

edwaleni

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1083 on: April 05, 2021, 09:04:00 AM »

Not entirely. A determination was made to keep the existing bridge in service because it's still in good, serviceable condition and that it can withstand the low impact of the more routine earthquakes that happen. Of course standards have changed and evolved over time but that doesn't mean that we need to completely rebuild our infrastructure from scratch to accommodate an issue that may not occur for centuries. As it is, there is no funding to replace any of the bridges for US Route 41, and there isn't the political will to route all through traffic over a tolled crossing.

I am not saying the bridges are 100% obsolete, I am pointing out that the long term engineering summary made no mention of the seismic risks of keeping any of the older bridges.

As long as the budget can keep them maintained, keep them going.

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The Ghostbuster

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1084 on: April 05, 2021, 08:58:57 PM »

They should leave the existing US 41 bridge as it presently is, or at least add breakdown shoulders on one or both sides of the two traffic lanes. Besides, once the new bridge opens, the existing bridge will likely see less traffic, and that would likely extend the existing bridge's life-span.
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WKDAVE

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1085 on: April 06, 2021, 09:54:49 AM »

A virtual public meeting was held April 1, 2021. Details at https://i69ohiorivercrossing.com/virtual-public-meeting/
Comments are being accepted until April 16, 2021.

Major take aways;
US 41 will not be tolled, partly to minimize financial impact on Henderson businesses.
The river bridges will be narrowed, eliminating the potential to expand to six lanes.
The Indiana ramps to US 41 have been simplified.
The Kentucky ramps have been modified.
Two phase construction. Starting in 2022, south from US60, through 2025. Then north of US60 from 2025 through 2031.
The timeline is based on funding and may be accelerated if  additional funding is identified.
I feel that it's a major error to narrow the river bridges.  The cost to make the road wide enough for three lanes is by far the cheapest  during the initial construction.  US41 has a lot of traffic currently, and when I-69 is completed to Indianapolis, that will increase the traffic over the bridge, even though they will have a two lane free option.

No reason to have a 6-lane bridge, so it is smart to save the money. Current traffic counts are 40,000 on Twin Bridges. None of us will ever see I-69 from Mexico to Canada as Arkansas and Mississippi aren't close to acting. Even Tennessee going south of Dyersburg is questionable for next 10 years, at least. Even if completed to Memphis it would be quicker to use existing "free" route through Illinois to I-70 to get to Indy from there. I think Ohio River crossings (41 and 69) will be in 50,000 range in 25 years. 8 lanes of bridges are not needed for that traffic load (6-lane I-64 Minton Bridge in Louisville carries 80,000+).
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sprjus4

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1086 on: April 06, 2021, 10:28:14 AM »

Even if completed to Memphis it would be quicker to use existing "free" route through Illinois to I-70 to get to Indy from there.
You sure about that? I-70 -> I-57 -> I-55 is currently 464 miles. The current IN-37 -> I-69 -> US-51 routing is 455 miles. That's 9 miles shorter, plus doesn't involve major heavy traffic corridors with large truck percentages. I would easily take a completed I-69 routing over I-70, I-57, and I-55, even if it was 10 or 15 miles longer, which in this case it is not.

The only reason the I-69 routing is not the quickest today is because of the various non-freeway segments, slower speed zones, and traffic signals. Once those are all eliminated, and it is a uniform 70 mph, it will be the faster and more direct route.
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I-55

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1087 on: April 06, 2021, 01:50:01 PM »

Even if completed to Memphis it would be quicker to use existing "free" route through Illinois to I-70 to get to Indy from there.
You sure about that? I-70 -> I-57 -> I-55 is currently 464 miles. The current IN-37 -> I-69 -> US-51 routing is 455 miles. That's 9 miles shorter, plus doesn't involve major heavy traffic corridors with large truck percentages. I would easily take a completed I-69 routing over I-70, I-57, and I-55, even if it was 10 or 15 miles longer, which in this case it is not.

The only reason the I-69 routing is not the quickest today is because of the various non-freeway segments, slower speed zones, and traffic signals. Once those are all eliminated, and it is a uniform 70 mph, it will be the faster and more direct route.

Evansville and Bloomington are 60 and 55 mph respectively and have already been upgraded to interstate standards. The only slower zones on the Illinois route are Effingham and Mt Vernon at 65 mph, but this is countered by the 65+ miles of 75 mph in Arkansas. And knowing INDOT, it wouldn't surprise me if there was a 65 zone near Indy on I-69.
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WKDAVE

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1088 on: April 06, 2021, 07:18:45 PM »

Even if completed to Memphis it would be quicker to use existing "free" route through Illinois to I-70 to get to Indy from there.
You sure about that? I-70 -> I-57 -> I-55 is currently 464 miles. The current IN-37 -> I-69 -> US-51 routing is 455 miles. That's 9 miles shorter, plus doesn't involve major heavy traffic corridors with large truck percentages. I would easily take a completed I-69 routing over I-70, I-57, and I-55, even if it was 10 or 15 miles longer, which in this case it is not.

The only reason the I-69 routing is not the quickest today is because of the various non-freeway segments, slower speed zones, and traffic signals. Once those are all eliminated, and it is a uniform 70 mph, it will be the faster and more direct route.

Basically it will be the same time (10 minutes on a 6.5 hours trip) but to save that 10 minutes will cost you $2-4 in a car and $11-$13 in a semi because they have suggested that pricing will be similar to Louisville tolls. Since there will be considerably less traffic on this toll bridge I wouldn't be surprised to see higher tolls than Louisville.
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ilpt4u

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1089 on: April 06, 2021, 09:29:08 PM »

And if your destination is southwest of Memphis, like Little Rock or Dallas, the extended I-57 will make the I-70/57 route more attractive, as it will bypass Memphis completely

If your destination is south of Memphis, the I-69 route will be competitive with the 70/57/55 route
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