The universe according to MMM

[Roadgeekteen]

NE2 is famous because he has a particular style and sense of humor. But unlike the other users like him, NE2 has enormous road knowledge and has a lot to offer as well.

[abefroman329]

NE2 is famous because he has a particular style and sense of humor. But unlike the other users like him, NE2 has enormous road knowledge and has a lot to offer as well.

Also, let's be honest, he's not the only user who isn't subject to all of the forum's rules.

[roadman65]

What is this obsession with NE2? And all these others users you constantly reference? How do you people even remember what so many different users say?

NE2 tried to scare me off this forum when I first joined. I expressed common dislike of toll roads and mentioned a radio commentator who said all the Central Florida should be gone at the time. Wrong move.

The commentator I mentioned is known by NE2 from living in my radio market. The commentator I stated by name, of course, and turns out to be a person who is politically opposite of NE2.   That then brought the toll verses non toll argument into politics ( or in his mind anyway as I worked at the time in a plant with left leaning liberals who hated the tolls more than I do) and then my second item of discussion was the jughandle on Route 35 in Laurence Harbor, NJ and I said " That the jughandle there was dumb"  he said " I think your posts are dumb"  which at the time I only had maybe ten posts overall and a member for two days maybe. That is being way too forward and rude and if I made that same comment myself I would be challenged into a heated argument.

Good thing the people I work with who are as Left as NE2 agree with my dislike of tolls as I would have left this forum. Anyway, I complained off line to a virtual road friend.  Bad move again.  This other road enthusiast turns out to be an old friend of NE2 and told me to turn the other cheek due to some traumatic event that NE2 endured  earlier in his life that led to his attitude today.

The story gets better as I'm not the best speller in the world either and NE2 loves to point out my spelling and grammar and get angry over it. Heck he nearly crapped his drawers when I used caption over captured in a sentence in a post. Then NE2 posted later on that day that I did it purposely to piss him off, which had me literally to the ground laughing as I admit I do have ignorance toward grammar, but for him to get upset over spelling and grammar is too far out there.

[Roadgeekteen]

NE2 is famous because he has a particular style and sense of humor. But unlike the other users like him, NE2 has enormous road knowledge and has a lot to offer as well.

Also, let's be honest, he's not the only user who isn't subject to all of the forum's rules.

Yeah, like you. Most of your posts are in off topic and half of them at least inderectly mention politics. You barely post about roads.

[roadman65]

I respect Alex and he sees the guy as helpful. I have to admit that he is knowledgeable about roads and stuff and I will credit him there for that. 

When he has outbursts and that one moderator on here uses him as his personal junkyard dog to scare off new users who can later on be a troll is why I responded to MMM with that he don't need to be in the running cause he is a mod already and of course is why I consider him to be a person of interest.

No I don't think about him 24/7 or anything that extreme as I have my own life to keep me busy.

BTW I do have a sympathetic side as I know how hard it is to get proper medical treatment for mental health these days. If he did have a breakdown he has my compassion as I in 1988 suffered a severe breakdown. I couldn't afford a basic shrink and was unaware that if you saw your primary care you can get a referral that would be covered by insurance. So I went to the local free clinic instead and got a quack who was an intern not yet capable of handling such a breakdown and tried to say I was just lazy without wanting to know the details of the problems I presented. He told me push ups was the answer to stop sociopathic behavior as I was afraid I might have been turning into one at the time. 

Shows you how ignorant therapists can be as with that rationale the OKC bombing could have been avoided if Tim McVae did exercises the moment he contemplated blowing up the federal building.

[abefroman329]

You barely post about roads.

Correct, I don't know much about roads, so I come here to learn about them by reading others' posts.  Most of the time, when I post about roads, it's to ask questions about an upcoming road trip, or to talk about how the road trip went, because it's nice to ask questions and then follow up with your own experience (something I learned from FlyerTalk).  I don't drive much and barely drive outside Chicagoland at all, so really the only time I post about roads is if I happen to be driving past, say, the construction of I-490, and want to give an update on what I observed.

If you think I talk too much about politics without being reprimanded by the modmins, then take it up with them.  My original comment was in regards to a forum member who makes personal attacks against other boarders, only to have a sympathetic mod come in behind them and delete the comments without any sort of warning.

[Roadgeekteen]

You barely post about roads.

Correct, I don't know much about roads, so I come here to learn about them by reading others' posts.  Most of the time, when I post about roads, it's to ask questions about an upcoming road trip, or to talk about how the road trip went, because it's nice to ask questions and then follow up with your own experience (something I learned from FlyerTalk).  I don't drive much and barely drive outside Chicagoland at all, so really the only time I post about roads is if I happen to be driving past, say, the construction of I-490, and want to give an update on what I observed.

If you think I talk too much about politics without being reprimanded by the modmins, then take it up with them.  My original comment was in regards to a forum member who makes personal attacks against other boarders, only to have a sympathetic mod come in behind them and delete the comments without any sort of warning.

No you're good. I kinda wish that the mods were more lenient with politics anyway.

[J N Winkler]

What is this obsession with NE2? And all these others users you constantly reference? How do you people even remember what so many different users say?

About one-third of the posts on this forum have been produced by the 16 or so people with post counts over 10,000, so over time you do form a sense of the personalities in play just by osmosis.

Many of us originally came to this forum from the Usenet newsgroup misc.transport.road, where NE2 (under a different handle, of course) was one of the earliest members.  The breadth and depth of his knowledge of route numbering systems is very difficult to match.

[Max Rockatansky]

One of the more "infamous" posters was recently banned.  He did quite a bit during his tenure here which would have likely gotten him kicked out of other road groups several times over.  The reason he wasn't banned until lately is due to this forum being very lite on moderation, not favoritism.  One observation I've had is that getting yourself kicked out tends to come quicker if you don't have any actual valid contributions to the hobby or forum.

[Max Rockatansky]

One of the more "infamous" posters was recently banned.  He did quite a bit during his tenure here which would have likely gotten him kicked out of other road groups several times over.  The reason he wasn't banned until lately is due to this forum being very lite on moderation, not favoritism.  One observation I've had is that getting yourself kicked out tends to come quicker if you don't have any actual valid contributions to the hobby or forum.

My first warning (85%), without any previous warnings was for referencing a fictional plan in a regional board, which I still acknowledged and apologized for, (I was referencing it as a "ha ha the DOT wouldn't like my plan then") and mentioned the plan" not intending to spam the thread, but I was never warned about that before (this was in early december)

I emphasized the last sentence of my previous statement.  You might want to think how it applies to your specific circumstance with the 85% warning.  I'm certainly by no means a moderator, but a lot of your early actions on forum were stirring a hornets nest of discontent. 

[abefroman329]

One of the more "infamous" posters was recently banned.  He did quite a bit during his tenure here which would have likely gotten him kicked out of other road groups several times over.  The reason he wasn't banned until lately is due to this forum being very lite on moderation, not favoritism.  One observation I've had is that getting yourself kicked out tends to come quicker if you don't have any actual valid contributions to the hobby or forum.

Also, I'm not aware of all of this user's posts, but the remarks they made that led to a ban were reprehensible, and I'm pretty sure their posts prior to that were just annoying.

[Max Rockatansky]

One of the more "infamous" posters was recently banned.  He did quite a bit during his tenure here which would have likely gotten him kicked out of other road groups several times over.  The reason he wasn't banned until lately is due to this forum being very lite on moderation, not favoritism.  One observation I've had is that getting yourself kicked out tends to come quicker if you don't have any actual valid contributions to the hobby or forum.

My first warning (85%), without any previous warnings was for referencing a fictional plan in a regional board, which I still acknowledged and apologized for, (I was referencing it as a "ha ha the DOT wouldn't like my plan then") and mentioned the plan" not intending to spam the thread, but I was never warned about that before (this was in early december)

I emphasized the last sentence of my previous statement.  You might want to think how it applies to your specific circumstance with the 85% warning.  I'm certainly by no means a moderator, but a lot of your early actions on forum were stirring a hornets nest of discontent.

I wasn't considered a troll back then. Even all my helicopter ideas I didn't start talking about until Mid-December is. The point being I was never specifically warned about that particular infraction before, and I still got 85% warning level for 1 infraction, which didn't even have any offensive content in it. But the fact that people are openly admitting that only some people are allowed to break the rules or not makes it all clear.

You were very much considered a troll at the time.

[Max Rockatansky]

If you feel were treated unfairly, why not petition a moderator?  Looking for sympathy from the group here isn't working out now is it?

[hotdogPi]

If you feel were treated unfairly, why not petition a moderator?

This doesn't work the way you think it does. Ask any minority in the South before the civil rights era or even today, anyone who's being sexually harassed at work. Even if you are entirely in the right (not that MMM is), you're likely only making things worse for yourself because the people above you have absolute power over you.

[Scott5114]

What is this obsession with NE2? And all these others users you constantly reference? How do you people even remember what so many different users say?

Because everyone on this site is a person, and it's polite to get to know people you're going to spend a lot of time with? And because of that most of us consider the other people on this site our friends?

There is a certain user that hasn't posted for a few weeks and I know this without checking his profile just because I notice we haven't heard from him in a while. And I'd imagine most of the people reading this can guess who I'm talking about, because they noticed the same thing.

Not by the mods. Out of 1540 posts, only 2 were offensive enough to trigger warning levels. I was being moderated from Dec 7 until 2 weeks ago, all but 3 of my posts since then were approved.

Not getting moderated merely means that your posts were judged to not break the rules, not that they were any good.

[Scott5114]

It looks like you haven't realized that 85% thing was probably the mod trolling you. (I don't agree with the use of that particular moderator tool for that sort of thing, thus why I reversed it. Said mod has since stepped down for unrelated reasons, so the issue is entirely moot now.)

[Max Rockatansky]

If you feel were treated unfairly, why not petition a moderator?

This doesn't work the way you think it does. Ask any minority in the South before the civil rights era or even today, anyone who's being sexually harassed at work. Even if you are entirely in the right (not that MMM is), you're likely only making things worse for yourself because the people above you have absolute power over you.

Oh come on, those aren't even close to an apples to apples comparison with what is going on here.  A guy not taking hints about toning down his trollish postings on a web forum doesn't frequently approach the levels of actual violence, civil rights violations or harassment.

At this point, is anyone actually arguing to moderate MMM out?  So long as his more wacky ideas stay contained to fictional threads I personally don't see an issue. 

[Scott5114]

If you feel were treated unfairly, why not petition a moderator?

This doesn't work the way you think it does. Ask any minority in the South before the civil rights era or even today, anyone who's being sexually harassed at work. Even if you are entirely in the right (not that MMM is), you're likely only making things worse for yourself because the people above you have absolute power over you.

Oh come on, those aren't even close to an apples to apples comparison with what is going on here.  A guy not taking hints about toning down his trollish postings on a web forum doesn't frequently approach the levels of actual violence, civil rights violations or harassment.

At this point, is anyone actually arguing to moderate MMM out?  So long as his more wacky ideas stay contained to fictional threads I personally don't see an issue. 

Also, I'll admit our moderation isn't perfect but we do try to be fair...

[kkt]

MMM, I'm not a moderator so I can't comment about the details of the moderation system.  But the main purpose of the board is roads, REAL roads, pictures, history.  There's a place for fictional roads, but it's mainly to keep those posts out of the real roads boards.  Posting there won't get you any brownie points, and posting ridiculous flights of fancy give you a reputation as a troll.

Maybe you can talk about or post nice pictures of the roads near your home?  Take a road trip and take some pictures?  I understand there's loads of great scenery upstate that would be worth a photo or two.

[Scott5114]

It looks like you haven't realized that 85% thing was probably the mod trolling you. (I don't agree with the use of that particular moderator tool for that sort of thing, thus why I reversed it. Said mod has since stepped down for unrelated reasons, so the issue is entirely moot now.)

No no, not the 100% thing on Christmas, before that, and before the ADHD thing, it was something in the New York board that triggered it, not the whole +70, -71 Alps is bored thing. The percentage had decreased to about 30% by that point, but was originally 85.

That was simply because the moderator wanted to screen your posts, most likely because he thought you might be trolling. I don't think there was any specific thing you were actually being punished for. (I personally don't use this tactic because I sort of hate having to approve people's posts, but I understand why other moderators might find it useful.)

[hotdogPi]

Keep in mind that your posts per day was 25 at one time. One day, I had to tell someone else who was countering your posts not to go over the 32 limit (you were already above). You weren't warned for just a single post.

[Scott5114]

@Scott fair enough, but I did have one suggestion/question that I'm not sure was worth making a thread on. Should moderated posts in general appear chronologically in a thread at the time they were made visible, because otherwise the post seems to come out of nowhere in the middle of a discussion, out of sync? If for example, someone being moderated submits a comment at 7 am, but for whatever reason it is not "approved" until 7 pm that same day, and in the meantime 10-20 new posts are in that thread, does it make more sense to let it appear before, or after those new posts?

That isn't something we have control over. Unlike social media sites that have teams of programmers, we don't write the code that controls the forum. We just download it from https://www.simplemachines.org/ and install it. SMF doesn't give us the option to change that out of the box, so if we wanted to, we'd have to rewrite the relevant part of it, and that risks breaking something somewhere else in the code. That's a lot of effort for something that usually only affects only a few users a year.

[Scott5114]

The moderation feature exists on all forums that run SMF. (Long ago I moderated another forum, running phpBB, and it did not have a similar feature.) Of course, each forum's mod team decides whether and when they want to use that feature. I'm sure some don't use it at all, and some use it far more frequently than we do.

In the admin panel, you can set the thresholds of when each moderation category is reached, but I believe we are just using the defaults.

I am not sure which forum software package City-Data uses; it doesn't actually say anywhere on the front page. But I don't think it's SMF. If I had to guess, it's phpBB.

[Scott5114]

And those thresholds are:

35=Moderated Posts
90= Muted
100 = Banned

For this forum?

Correct.

[Scott5114]

One cannot actually issue a permanent ban through the warning interface, only mute the user. Bans are done through the admin panel. Though on the user side the end result is mostly the same (not allowed to post), are there a few key differences between the two. Muted users can view restricted sections of the forum like Fictional while banned users cannot. Also, moderators can issue what are effectively emergency-stop bans by muting a user, since actual bans can only be issued through the admin interface.

I would imagine the reason that the moderation threshold is 35 instead of 33 is because it is the closest multiple of five to 33, and warnings can only be issued in multiples of five points.