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Author Topic: New OK route sheld spotted on Indian Nation Turnpike.  (Read 1325 times)

FakeMikeMorgan

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New OK route sheld spotted on Indian Nation Turnpike.
« on: January 15, 2023, 06:57:45 AM »

https://imgur.com/a/hwvHw2Q

Driving on the Indian Nation Turnpike yesterday and spotted this new route shield for SH 9. Is this a new design or OTA just being OTA?
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US 89

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Re: New OK route sheld spotted on Indian Nation Turnpike.
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2023, 09:24:43 AM »

That’s not new - that sign has been posted on this forum a few times over the years. Gotta love Oklahoma.

Bobby5280

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Re: New OK route sheld spotted on Indian Nation Turnpike.
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2023, 12:01:52 PM »

There's still at least a couple or so locations around the state with the old circle-shield signs. Here's one on the East side of Lawton:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.5953863,-98.352328,3a,75y,178.59h,83.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHv--h9vMsEDzUTUlNFOrkQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en

I do not like the current OK highway shield design. It just doesn't work. They can't strike the right balance with the size of the OK state shape and its line stroke width. The route numbers cut through the state shape in often very awkward ways. ODOT just needs to go back to the drawing board and do something else.

A few years ago I created an alternative design which would definitely function far better.


The route numerals don't cut through the "meat cleaver" state shape. Instead I have "OKLAHOMA" cutting across it to fill some negative space; the lettering also uses the same Eurostile Bold type that is used on the OK state flag. The line stroke of the meat cleaver and shield border is similar in weight to the bold Oklahoma letters. The square-ish letters work great with the square shield. I'm not meaning to toot my horn too loudly, but this is just a more professional looking concept. The current ones out in the field suck. I've been designing signs for a living nearly 30 years.
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Scott5114

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Re: New OK route sheld spotted on Indian Nation Turnpike.
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2023, 04:22:29 PM »

https://imgur.com/a/hwvHw2Q

Driving on the Indian Nation Turnpike yesterday and spotted this new route shield for SH 9. Is this a new design or OTA just being OTA?

Just OTA being OTA. That was posted before the meat cleaver was even invented, actually. So who knows why someone decided to put a state outline there.
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Bobby5280

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Re: New OK route sheld spotted on Indian Nation Turnpike.
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2023, 08:35:21 PM »

Also haven't all caps legends on big green signs been verboten by the MUTCD for like, um, decades?
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swake

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Re: New OK route sheld spotted on Indian Nation Turnpike.
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2023, 11:10:11 PM »

There's still at least a couple or so locations around the state with the old circle-shield signs. Here's one on the East side of Lawton:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.5953863,-98.352328,3a,75y,178.59h,83.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHv--h9vMsEDzUTUlNFOrkQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en

I do not like the current OK highway shield design. It just doesn't work. They can't strike the right balance with the size of the OK state shape and its line stroke width. The route numbers cut through the state shape in often very awkward ways. ODOT just needs to go back to the drawing board and do something else.

A few years ago I created an alternative design which would definitely function far better.


The route numerals don't cut through the "meat cleaver" state shape. Instead I have "OKLAHOMA" cutting across it to fill some negative space; the lettering also uses the same Eurostile Bold type that is used on the OK state flag. The line stroke of the meat cleaver and shield border is similar in weight to the bold Oklahoma letters. The square-ish letters work great with the square shield. I'm not meaning to toot my horn too loudly, but this is just a more professional looking concept. The current ones out in the field suck. I've been designing signs for a living nearly 30 years.

That looks very cool. Have you sent it to ODOT?
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rte66man

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Re: New OK route sheld spotted on Indian Nation Turnpike.
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2023, 11:01:52 AM »

Another example of circle shields still living in the wild:

WB US64 near Morrison:
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.3190176,-96.9191427,3a,75y,289.84h,77.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sXEM-sBgTVcionq1kzACimg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Bobby, I think your example where the signs aren't on a state highway are more common. The ODOT district responsible seemed to have skipped over that situation. Until a recent widening, SB MacArthur approaching NW 39th Expressway had a circle shield for OK66.
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Bobby5280

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Re: New OK route sheld spotted on Indian Nation Turnpike.
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2023, 06:43:26 PM »

Quote from: swake
That looks very cool. Have you sent it to ODOT?

No. I haven't tried. Although it would be tempting to do so. The numeral sizes, border stroke width and various other details are all specifically sized to proper standards (and thus can be scaled to larger panel sizes such as 36" X 36" without elements having odd-ball dimensions).

I can't remember for certain when ODOT shifted from the old circle shields to the current design. But I think the current OK state highway design has been around long enough to deserve a "design refresh."
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Scott5114

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Re: New OK route sheld spotted on Indian Nation Turnpike.
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2023, 06:57:02 PM »

I can't remember for certain when ODOT shifted from the old circle shields to the current design.

2006.
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StogieGuy7

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Re: New OK route sheld spotted on Indian Nation Turnpike.
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2023, 11:11:14 AM »

I can't remember for certain when ODOT shifted from the old circle shields to the current design.

2006.

The meat cleaver is so lame that even the circle is a big improvement on it. It's a shame because they could have done more with it.
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hbelkins

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Re: New OK route sheld spotted on Indian Nation Turnpike.
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2023, 02:06:28 PM »

I don't really see any difference in the way the numbers interact with the state outline of the meat cleaver than they do Florida's outline.
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Scott5114

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Re: New OK route sheld spotted on Indian Nation Turnpike.
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2023, 03:01:28 PM »

I can't remember for certain when ODOT shifted from the old circle shields to the current design.

2006.

The meat cleaver is so lame that even the circle is a big improvement on it. It's a shame because they could have done more with it.

Speaking as someone who drives past them every time I leave the city, and has two of them in his house...They're really not that bad once you actually see one in the field.
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CoreySamson

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Re: New OK route sheld spotted on Indian Nation Turnpike.
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2023, 03:30:38 PM »

Yeah, I concur with Scott that the meat cleaver shield actually looks pretty nice. I like it just as much (if not better than) the Texas state highway shield.
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Bobby5280

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Re: New OK route sheld spotted on Indian Nation Turnpike.
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2023, 04:29:39 PM »

Quote from: hbelkins
I don't really see any difference in the way the numbers interact with the state outline of the meat cleaver than they do Florida's outline.

Florida's design works far better because the 180 rotated L-shape of the Florida state outline allows numerals to fit better. Yeah, a lot of the Gulf Coast side of the state shape is deleted, but the iconography of the FL state shape still reads through clearly.

That's not the case in the Oklahoma design. It takes both the Red River border portion and Panhandle for the OK state icon to read clearly. But in this case we have numerals deleting some or even all of that Red River portion of the shape.
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StogieGuy7

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Re: New OK route sheld spotted on Indian Nation Turnpike.
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2023, 09:32:10 AM »

I can't remember for certain when ODOT shifted from the old circle shields to the current design.

2006.

The meat cleaver is so lame that even the circle is a big improvement on it. It's a shame because they could have done more with it.

Speaking as someone who drives past them every time I leave the city, and has two of them in his house...They're really not that bad once you actually see one in the field.

I've seen them in the field many times and remain quite unimpressed. It's a square (which is a duller shape than a circle, IMHO) with an offset outline halfway above the number.  Seems off-balance and is boring. At least Florida nestles the numbers into the Gulf Coast, which looks balanced and even.
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situveux1

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Re: New OK route sheld spotted on Indian Nation Turnpike.
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2023, 09:37:55 AM »

I can't remember for certain when ODOT shifted from the old circle shields to the current design.

2006.

The meat cleaver is so lame that even the circle is a big improvement on it. It's a shame because they could have done more with it.

Speaking as someone who drives past them every time I leave the city, and has two of them in his house...They're really not that bad once you actually see one in the field.

I've seen them in the field many times and remain quite unimpressed. It's a square (which is a duller shape than a circle, IMHO) with an offset outline halfway above the number.  Seems off-balance and is boring. At least Florida nestles the numbers into the Gulf Coast, which looks balanced and even.

I'm 1000% biased, so take it for what it is... but I still think Kansas has the best design. The black on yellow is the best visible contrast possible. It's a great representation of the state and since it's not a state outline, it extends well with 3 digit route numbers. And it doesn't get much better balance than a circle/oval design.
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StogieGuy7

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Re: New OK route sheld spotted on Indian Nation Turnpike.
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2023, 09:55:34 AM »

I can't remember for certain when ODOT shifted from the old circle shields to the current design.

2006.

The meat cleaver is so lame that even the circle is a big improvement on it. It's a shame because they could have done more with it.

Speaking as someone who drives past them every time I leave the city, and has two of them in his house...They're really not that bad once you actually see one in the field.

I've seen them in the field many times and remain quite unimpressed. It's a square (which is a duller shape than a circle, IMHO) with an offset outline halfway above the number.  Seems off-balance and is boring. At least Florida nestles the numbers into the Gulf Coast, which looks balanced and even.

I'm 1000% biased, so take it for what it is... but I still think Kansas has the best design. The black on yellow is the best visible contrast possible. It's a great representation of the state and since it's not a state outline, it extends well with 3 digit route numbers. And it doesn't get much better balance than a circle/oval design.

Definitely one of the very best indeed. Original, attractive and appropriate to the state. Utah's beehive, Colorado's state-flag themed shield would also be vying for the top spot.
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Bobby5280

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Re: New OK route sheld spotted on Indian Nation Turnpike.
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2023, 02:34:07 PM »

One drawback to Kansas' sunflower symbol shield: it has to be horizontally stretched out of symmetrical proportions to fit 3 digit route numbers. It's either that or use really condensed numerals that are less legible.

New Mexico has the same kind of problem with its round Zia-themed shield. On big green signs they tend to just use the generic round cirles and ovals and leave the Zia symbols on the post-mounted reassurance signs.

Another issue with Kansas' state highway shield: yellow background colors are typically used on various types of standard warning signs (diamond shaped signs, chevron signs on sharp roadway curves, etc).
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StogieGuy7

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Re: New OK route sheld spotted on Indian Nation Turnpike.
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2023, 03:24:49 PM »

One drawback to Kansas' sunflower symbol shield: it has to be horizontally stretched out of symmetrical proportions to fit 3 digit route numbers. It's either that or use really condensed numerals that are less legible.

New Mexico has the same kind of problem with its round Zia-themed shield. On big green signs they tend to just use the generic round cirles and ovals and leave the Zia symbols on the post-mounted reassurance signs.

Another issue with Kansas' state highway shield: yellow background colors are typically used on various types of standard warning signs (diamond shaped signs, chevron signs on sharp roadway curves, etc).

Kansas stretches the dimensions a little for 3di highways, but thanks to the flower pedals the stretching is hardly noticeable (unlike KY, where circles become ovals).  NM handles the zia by shrinking the numerical font size - enough to detract from the design. I always thought that just using circles (and ovoids) on BGS' was a real cop out for NM. 

Then again, look how Texas handles their state-shaped FM/RM highway badges (the most common shield in the state). Talk about mailing it in.
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Bobby5280

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Re: New OK route sheld spotted on Indian Nation Turnpike.
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2023, 06:44:08 PM »

It's not offensive for a state using generic round state highway markers to use ovals for 3 digit routes. Both are just ordinary geometric shapes. People are accustomed to thinking of sunflowers as being round. An oval sunflower shape just seems odd.

I think NM DOT had no choice but to use the generic circle designs for state highway markers on big green signs. In order to incorporate the Zia details the shields would have to be significantly larger for the numerals to scale to acceptable sizes.

Texas' Farm to Market and Ranch to Market signs also do not translate at all to big green sign designs. The Texas state shape is a pretty lousy container for route numerals (even worse than the diamond shapes used by NC and MI). It's easy to see why TX DOT uses ordinary rectangles for BGS FM and RM route markers. The numerals can be larger and more legible in that treatment.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2023, 06:46:29 PM by Bobby5280 »
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