Time zones 2

[J N Winkler]

School districts should intracounty.

That wouldn't fly in states where schools have no connection to county administration.  Two of my mother's siblings are (were) graduates of the Renwick district, so called because it extends into both Reno and Sedgwick Counties in Kansas.

[zzcarp]

I've always wondered what it's like to live near the border of two time zones. Must be a mind-bending expierence.

My aunt and uncle lived near a county line that was the dividing point between Eastern and Central time. They had moved from an Eastern time county, and most of their business was done in an Eastern time county. They kept their clocks set to Central time but whenever they made reference to Eastern time, they referred to it as "Louisville time."

My colleague in the Somerset office (Eastern) lives in Russell County (Central). She changes time zones on every commute to work. I've never asked her how she deals with that situation.

My former mother-in-law and her husband live southwest of Campbellsville, KY, in Taylor County (eastern) about 2,000 feet away as the crow flies from the Green County (central) line. When we'd visit, the cell phones would automatically switch between the two time zones at random times to the point I'd set two alarms just to ensure I woke up on time. Later, with the iPhone, I turned off the autochange feature and forced it onto Eastern time for our stays there.

[US 89]

I've always wondered what it's like to live near the border of two time zones. Must be a mind-bending expierence.

I'm only 80 miles from my parents and visiting them involves a time change.

There's a school district in between that has one elementary school in Eastern, with the other elementaries, the middle and high schools in Central.

Time zones should always follow county boundaries.

There are often very good reasons when they don't. Elko County, Nevada is split because West Wendover, NV and Wendover, UT are essentially one town and it would be dumb to have different sides observing different time. So your choice is either to move West Wendover into Utah time or Wendover into Nevada time. Although most of the population there is on the Nevada side, it's about 100 miles in either direction until you get to a larger city, and the stronger economic connections to the Salt Lake City metro area mean it makes far more sense for the community to observe Mountain time.

But Elko County is a massive county, and moving the whole county to Mountain time would be silly. West Wendover is closer to Salt Lake City, 122 miles away, than the other end of its own county. The city of Elko couldn't care less what goes on in Salt Lake, unless they're driving there to satisfy whatever big-city need they might have.

[SSOWorld]

I've always wondered what it's like to live near the border of two time zones. Must be a mind-bending expierence.

My aunt and uncle lived near a county line that was the dividing point between Eastern and Central time. They had moved from an Eastern time county, and most of their business was done in an Eastern time county. They kept their clocks set to Central time but whenever they made reference to Eastern time, they referred to it as "Louisville time."

My colleague in the Somerset office (Eastern) lives in Russell County (Central). She changes time zones on every commute to work. I've never asked her how she deals with that situation.

Less than one month from now as I type this, that which must not be named on this forum happens.

DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME!

No such thing.

The Senate passed a bill getting rid of it but the House didn't pass it.

Actually, I think the vote was to go to year-round DST, not abolish it.

Correct.  I couldn't care either way anymore.  There is no clear winner in it.

[jeffandnicole]

School districts should intracounty.

That wouldn't fly in states where schools have no connection to county administration.  Two of my mother's siblings are (were) graduates of the Renwick district, so called because it extends into both Reno and Sedgwick Counties in Kansas.

Talking about school districts is cute.  Especially in states where each county has a single school district.

NJ has 599 school districts.  NJ also only has 564 municipalities. (Both numbers are down as a few school districts and municipalities have consolidated or merged over the years.)  1 of those school districts serves students in two counties.

Growing up, I went to one school district from K - 6.  Grades 7 - 12 were another school district. And that district also received students from a 2nd K - 6 school district.  Only 2 towns were involved, yet 3 districts were served by those 2 towns.

NJ also has around 17 school districts without any students.  That's almost 1 per county in of itself.

[J N Winkler]

Growing up, I went to one school district from K - 6.  Grades 7 - 12 were another school district. And that district also received students from a 2nd K - 6 school district.  Only 2 towns were involved, yet 3 districts were served by those 2 towns.

Kansas used to have separate school districts for elementary and high schools.  I suspect many of these--certainly most of the rural high school districts, but probably also some of the elementary school districts--had just one school per district.  Moreover, there used to be what were called ecclesiastical school districts, where churches would maintain grade schools.

In the 1950's, ecclesiastical school districts were ruled to violate separation of church and state and thus forced to secularize.  Then, from the late 1950's to the early 1970's, there was a round of school district consolidation where the thousands of existing districts were forced to merge until there are now several hundred, each of which covers all of the K-12 grades.  Many small rural high schools were forced to close in favor of new, larger schools, each of which serves multiple communities from a greenfield location.  Many Kansans blame this process for hastening rural population collapse.

My mother attended St. Marks elementary school (not in the current building, of course) when it was still part of a Catholic ecclesiastical district (St. Mark's Church is across the street).  It has been folded into the post-consolidation Renwick district (Unified School District 267).  My paternal grandmother graduated from Gypsum High School in the late 1930's; today's students now go to Southeast of Saline High School.

The grade school closest to me was actually first formed in the 1870's on its current site as a rural elementary, though I believe all of the buildings that still stand long postdate World War II.

[Bruce]

Not sure if I've lived anywhere where it wasn't pitch dark by 9:15 p.m.

I know you are a bit further east, but I wouldn't say that here in Rochester. The sunset is right around 9PM on the longest day of the year, so if it's a clear evening there's some light until at least 10PM.

Meh, fine, not pitch black, but pretty dark by 9:15.

That's civil twilight territory in Seattle around the solstice. It's not uncommon for some light to be out until 10 pm.

[kkt]

Yes.  July 4, Seattle begins its fireworks show at 10:00 so it can be dark enough.  Sucks when July 5 is a working day, because we don't get home until midnight.

[US 89]

I feel like 10pm is more or less the standard fireworks show time in most places. In Utah growing up our shows would always start at 10, by which point it would be an hour and a half after sunset and there would just be a little bit of light near the western horizon.

When I spent the 4th with family in Montana, their show started at 10 despite a sunset time maybe 15 minutes before. It felt way too light to be doing fireworks.

[formulanone]

I feel like 10pm is more or less the standard fireworks show time in most places. In Utah growing up our shows would always start at 10, by which point it would be an hour and a half after sunset and there would just be a little bit of light near the western horizon.

When I spent the 4th with family in Montana, their show started at 10 despite a sunset time maybe 15 minutes before. It felt way too light to be doing fireworks.

Seems that 9pm (or a few moments later) has been more common when living in Florida and Alabama. It's dark right around that time. Weather permitting, people are usually launching something or blowing something up about a half hour before that and probably still right up to 11pm-12am in some cases. Can't stand having to work/fly out early the next morning.

But having been to one celebration in Port Angeles, Washington; I can understand why it's at 10pm.

[GaryV]

When we watch shows on PBS with music and fireworks (e.g. A Capitol Fourth from DC) their fireworks start between 9:30 and 9:45 and it's dark there. Here in SE Mich it's still pretty light out.

[jeffandnicole]

After sunset here in NJ, which at the 4th of July is usually around 9:15 or so.

[Roadgeekteen]

Our summer sunsets are pretty early, it's always dark or almost by 9.

[webny99]

This is somewhat pointing out the obvious, but being further north makes a big difference as to how long the transition period from light to dark is in the summer. The further north you go, the longer the twilight periods are. There's even a notable difference between here and NYC, where I was surprised not only by how early the sun set, but also how suddenly it went from sunset to total darkness.

[1995hoo]

When we watch shows on PBS with music and fireworks (e.g. A Capitol Fourth from DC) their fireworks start between 9:30 and 9:45 and it's dark there. Here in SE Mich it's still pretty light out.

That's a rerun at 9:30. The live fireworks downtown begin at 9:10 and are done just before 9:30.

[GaryV]

When we watch shows on PBS with music and fireworks (e.g. A Capitol Fourth from DC) their fireworks start between 9:30 and 9:45 and it's dark there. Here in SE Mich it's still pretty light out.

That's a rerun at 9:30. The live fireworks downtown begin at 9:10 and are done just before 9:30.

That's right. I was thinking it was a 2 hour show, but it's usually 1.5 hours.

[kphoger]

Not sure if I've lived anywhere where it wasn't pitch dark by 9:15 p.m.

I know you are a bit further east, but I wouldn't say that here in Rochester. The sunset is right around 9PM on the longest day of the year, so if it's a clear evening there's some light until at least 10PM.

You need to go north for late sunsets. Winnipeg gets latest sunset at 9.40, Edmonton  at 10.07, Anchoradge at 11.40

You don't need to go north.  The town I grew up in, in western Kansas, has a 9:18 PM sunset at the end of June, with dusk approaching 10 PM.  I have a childhood memory of having to come inside from playing basketball in the church parking lot because it was bedtime.

Here in Wichita, we have nearly two straight months when dusk is after 9:15 PM.

[kalvado]

Not sure if I've lived anywhere where it wasn't pitch dark by 9:15 p.m.

I know you are a bit further east, but I wouldn't say that here in Rochester. The sunset is right around 9PM on the longest day of the year, so if it's a clear evening there's some light until at least 10PM.

You need to go north for late sunsets. Winnipeg gets latest sunset at 9.40, Edmonton  at 10.07, Anchoradge at 11.40

You don't need to go north.  The town I grew up in, in western Kansas, has a 9:18 PM sunset at the end of June, with dusk approaching 10 PM.  I have a childhood memory of having to come inside from playing basketball in the church parking lot because it was bedtime.

Here in Wichita, we have nearly two straight months when dusk is after 9:15 PM.

I've been to places where
The sun goes down
Each night and never rises

[US 89]

Not sure if I've lived anywhere where it wasn't pitch dark by 9:15 p.m.

I know you are a bit further east, but I wouldn't say that here in Rochester. The sunset is right around 9PM on the longest day of the year, so if it's a clear evening there's some light until at least 10PM.

You need to go north for late sunsets. Winnipeg gets latest sunset at 9.40, Edmonton  at 10.07, Anchoradge at 11.40

You don't need to go north.  The town I grew up in, in western Kansas, has a 9:18 PM sunset at the end of June, with dusk approaching 10 PM.  I have a childhood memory of having to come inside from playing basketball in the church parking lot because it was bedtime.

Here in Wichita, we have nearly two straight months when dusk is after 9:15 PM.

Western edge of a time zone helps too...

[kphoger]

You don't need to go north.  The town I grew up in, in western Kansas, has a 9:18 PM sunset at the end of June, with dusk approaching 10 PM.  I have a childhood memory of having to come inside from playing basketball in the church parking lot because it was bedtime.

Here in Wichita, we have nearly two straight months when dusk is after 9:15 PM.

Western edge of a time zone helps too...

I live 233 miles from the western edge of this time zone.

[kphoger]

But yes, nearing the western edge of a time zone helps.  For example, Amarillo, 68 miles from the western edge of the time zone, has 11 weeks with dusk after 9:15 PM, and 6 weeks with sunset after 9:00 PM.

You definitely don't need to go north to encounter late sunsets.

[7/8]

This link has lots of great maps on sunrise/sunset times, lengths of days, etc. for US and Canada:
http://us-climate.blogspot.com/2016/06/daylight-twilight-astronomical-maps.html

Here's the map on sunset times on summer solstice:

[CNGL-Leudimin]

Yukon is outdated, it should be all after midnight now. Also, several "spacetime rifts" could be adjusted for territories that don't observe DST (Central/Mountain going around the East side of Saskatchewan instead of West, Mountain/Pacific going around the East side of Sonora and Arizona instead of West), but that is another debate.

[webny99]

You definitely don't need to go north to encounter late sunsets.

That wasn't my point, by the way. My point was you need to go north for longer twilight periods, which only increase as you go north, and also aren't affected by where you are within a time zone.

[kphoger]

You definitely don't need to go north to encounter late sunsets.

That wasn't my point, by the way. My point was you need to go north for longer twilight periods, which only increase as you go north, and also aren't affected by where you are within a time zone.

My original reply was to a post by |kalvado|, not you.