AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: I-49 in Arkansas  (Read 724420 times)

bugo

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6083
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Oklahoma
  • Last Login: December 04, 2019, 03:12:46 PM
    • No Frills Blog
Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #625 on: January 16, 2014, 10:27:12 PM »

Now for some interesting trivia! When I-540 in Crawford and Sebastian Counties was constructed, it was originally done so and signed as U.S. Highway 271. This is a west to east route and as such, the log miles begin at the state line and proceed the distance to I-40. Eventually this section of U.S. Highway 271 was re-designated as Interstate spur 540. What resulted is exit numbers that went one direction and log miles that go another.

Whaaaaa?  What years were I-540 signed as US 71.  I'm having a hard time buying this because I have maps that show I-540 ending at AR 22 and continuing to US 71 as AR 540.  The connection between US 71 and US 271 was the last portion completed, and at that time the entire road was signed as I-540 (I assume). 

What was the number of 271 north of 540?

Yeah we had to go back and look at that one too.
 
The route wasn't signed U.S. Highway 271, it originated FROM U.S. Highway 271. First section was constructed from U.S. 271 to State Highway 22. Minute order 4469 on January 31, 1962 approves the naming of this first section as State Highway 540. Since it progresses west to east (or actually south to north?), the log mile numbering began where it does.
 
Sorry for the confusion. We can upload a copy of the minute order with a graphic illustrating the above if someone can tell us how to paste photos in the thread. Have tried it but cannot seem to make it work.
 
Thanks!

Here is the minute order in question:

Quote
4469 In SEBASTIAN COUNTY, a proposed highway route is hereby established between State Highway No. US 271 south of Fort Smith and the proposed State Highway No. 22 Interchange of Interstate Route No. 540 in Fort Smith, a distance of approximately 6.0 miles, generally along the location shown on the attached sketch, and said route is hereby made a part of the State Highway System, subject to approval by the Bureau of Public Roads as part of the Federal-Aid Primary System.

This says nothing about US 271 following I-540.  It just gave a number for the proposed highway. 

There was, however, a plan to extend US 271 north along AR 59 into Missouri but it was denied by AASHTO (or AASHO).

The link below will display a PDF copy of the graphic associated with MO4469. It illustrates how I-540 progressed from U.S. 271.
 
http://www.arkansashighways.com/forums/minute_order_4469.pdf

No.  This shows proposed I-540 which originally ended at AR 22.  The map shows the proposed AR 540 running from AR 22 to US 271.  The section of I-540 (then AR 540, though likely never signed as such except from US 71 to AR 22) from US 271 to US 71 was the last section to be built.  Proof?  Check out the map on the AHTD website for Sebastian County labelled 1971.
Logged
This signature has been censored by the AARoads Bureau of Morality.

bugo

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6083
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Oklahoma
  • Last Login: December 04, 2019, 03:12:46 PM
    • No Frills Blog
Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #626 on: January 16, 2014, 10:31:59 PM »


The link below will display a PDF copy of the graphic associated with MO4469. It illustrates how I-540 progressed from U.S. 271.
 
http://www.arkansashighways.com/forums/minute_order_4469.pdf
 

AH! This makes more sense .

No, it doesn't.  The map, for some reason, shows completed I-540 north of AR 22 as proposed while it shows the proposed section of AR 540 as complete.  The map is wrong.  Compare it to the 1971 Sebastian County map or the state highway maps from the '70s.

Besides, why would they build that section first?
Logged
This signature has been censored by the AARoads Bureau of Morality.

US71

  • Road Scholar , Master of Snark
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 8860
  • Sign Inspector

  • Age: 59
  • Location: On the road again
  • Last Login: December 05, 2019, 09:37:54 PM
    • The Road Less Taken
Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #627 on: January 16, 2014, 10:53:57 PM »


The link below will display a PDF copy of the graphic associated with MO4469. It illustrates how I-540 progressed from U.S. 271.
 
http://www.arkansashighways.com/forums/minute_order_4469.pdf
 

AH! This makes more sense .

No, it doesn't.  The map, for some reason, shows completed I-540 north of AR 22 as proposed while it shows the proposed section of AR 540 as complete.  The map is wrong.  Compare it to the 1971 Sebastian County map or the state highway maps from the '70s.

Besides, why would they build that section first?

OK. I'll pull my maps in the morning and see what I can find.  I believe the 271 to 22 segment was the last section to at least be designated I-540. I've seen a couple maps showing 540 complete, but being a state route south of AR 22/ Rogers Ave.
 
I think one of the old Arkansas Highways magazines has a photo of a Ar 22/Ar 540 sign assembly at the exit.
Logged
a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -- Simon & Garfunkel

bugo

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6083
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Oklahoma
  • Last Login: December 04, 2019, 03:12:46 PM
    • No Frills Blog
Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #628 on: January 16, 2014, 11:11:13 PM »

I think one of the old Arkansas Highways magazines has a photo of a Ar 22/Ar 540 sign assembly at the exit.

What date?  I'd love to see this.
Logged
This signature has been censored by the AARoads Bureau of Morality.

AHTD

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 303
  • www.idrivearkansas.com

  • Age: 106
  • Location: Arkansas
  • Last Login: June 21, 2017, 07:31:14 PM
    • AHTD Online
Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #629 on: January 17, 2014, 10:51:23 AM »


The link below will display a PDF copy of the graphic associated with MO4469. It illustrates how I-540 progressed from U.S. 271.
 
http://www.arkansashighways.com/forums/minute_order_4469.pdf
 

AH! This makes more sense .

No, it doesn't.  The map, for some reason, shows completed I-540 north of AR 22 as proposed while it shows the proposed section of AR 540 as complete.  The map is wrong.  Compare it to the 1971 Sebastian County map or the state highway maps from the '70s.

Besides, why would they build that section first?

Sorry- our post was too general in terms. Didn't mean to imply I-540 originated from U.S. 271. It was AR540 that was constructed from U.S. 271 to SH22. Thus the log miles in said direction.
 
Upon further review of historical maps, it looks as if the Arkansas Highway Commission in those days designated routes before they were constructed. The minute order clearly designates the highway, but it doesn't appear on the map until the 1970s. And maps dated after this minute order show the progression of I-540 emanating from I-40.
 
These days an "official" designation is not done by minute order until the construction is nearly complete - just before the highway opens. Prior to this the route is "designated" in planning studies, design, etc.
 
You can find all of our historical highway maps here: http://www.arkansashighways.com/planning_research/mapping_graphics/archived_tourist_maps/archived_tourist_maps.aspx
Logged
Travel and construction information available at www.idrivearkansas.com

M86

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 500
  • Livin' the dream, in my dreams

  • Location: South Dakota
  • Last Login: November 30, 2019, 04:47:58 AM
Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #630 on: January 18, 2014, 02:21:55 AM »

AHTD,

What are the plans for Dynamic Message Signage along future I-49, but more specifically I-540 in NWA?  These signs alert motorists to Amber Alerts (Morgan Amber Alerts in AR), not to mention adverse weather conditions and road closures...

Also, US 71/I-540 between the Missouri border and the south side of Fayetteville, there is 40 miles without a mileage distance sign.  I talked with an engineer a year ago and say he would look into it, 
On US 71 southbound, right after the border and state/iDriveArkansas signs needs to be a mileage distance sign.  The same with the AR 340/Lancashire Blvd exit (both north and south bound).
Logged

AHTD

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 303
  • www.idrivearkansas.com

  • Age: 106
  • Location: Arkansas
  • Last Login: June 21, 2017, 07:31:14 PM
    • AHTD Online
Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #631 on: January 18, 2014, 03:33:20 PM »

Will have to do some checking on the message boards. These along with our Highway Advisory Radio stations are evolving in a way that will allow us to be more responsive to real-time conditions.
 
The locations of all permanent message boards and all Highway Advisory Radio stations will soon be available as separate layers on IDrive Arkansas. We anticipate you will be able to see in real-time, the message being displayed by each permanent board and the recording being played by each radio station.
 
As for the mileage distance signs, do you mean mile markers or information signs that state: Fayetteville 23 miles, etc.????
Logged
Travel and construction information available at www.idrivearkansas.com

M86

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 500
  • Livin' the dream, in my dreams

  • Location: South Dakota
  • Last Login: November 30, 2019, 04:47:58 AM
Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #632 on: January 19, 2014, 02:39:25 AM »

As for the mileage distance signs, do you mean mile markers or information signs that state: Fayetteville 23 miles, etc.????
Mileage Distance Signs like right at the MO/AR state line on US 71, there should be a sign that states the distance to future points.  And again at the interchange with US 71 and AR 340.  Both north and south bound.

But it's via the MUTCD, which AHTD abides by.




Logged

O Tamandua

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 364
  • Location: Bella Vista, AR
  • Last Login: December 04, 2019, 11:15:17 PM
    • A-B-P Ministries - An evangelical Christian ministry serving Angola, Brazil, Portugal.
Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #633 on: January 22, 2014, 12:34:21 PM »

AHTD, do you work with Parks and Tourism at all on the visitor welcome centers?  Just wondering if you've heard whether a new visitor's center would be opened along I-49 (when it's eventually completed) at the Arkansas/Missouri border, given how big the combined Northwest Arkansas/Fort Smith area has now become, and how small the existing on at Bella Vista on U.S. 71 is?

Sorry if this is out of your agency's scope.  Just curious on it.  Thank you in advance for anything you can post.
Logged

Grzrd

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3424
  • Interested Observer

  • Location: Atlanta, GA
  • Last Login: July 31, 2019, 11:24:20 AM
Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #634 on: January 22, 2014, 03:10:04 PM »

the modified connector (similar to a roundabout) is designed in such a way to ALLOW traffic on U.S. 71/I-540 to flow unimpeded as it does now (except for backups during peak times). The modiifed connector simply allows access to usable parts of the Bella Vista Bypass so that folks in Hiwassee, Gravette and those that live in west Bella Vista can use it.
I can see how this would be appropriate, as ridiculous as it sounds.  Thank you, AHTD.
I would love to see the plans, as others have stated.
(above quote from Question for AHTD: SPUI / DDI thread)

The January 21 AHTD Presentation to the Siloam Springs Rotary Club has been posted and it includes this depiction of the initial connection between Highway 71 and the Bella Vista Bypass:



AHTD, I assume this the concept that you have mentioned?
Logged

NE2

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13912
  • fuck

  • Age: 11
  • Location: central Florida
  • Last Login: December 05, 2019, 02:30:02 PM
Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #635 on: January 22, 2014, 03:14:56 PM »

heh heh rotary club
Logged
Florida route log | pre-1945
I will do my best to not make America hate again.
Global warming denial is barely worse than white privilege denial.

AHTD

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 303
  • www.idrivearkansas.com

  • Age: 106
  • Location: Arkansas
  • Last Login: June 21, 2017, 07:31:14 PM
    • AHTD Online
Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #636 on: January 22, 2014, 03:30:23 PM »

the modified connector (similar to a roundabout) is designed in such a way to ALLOW traffic on U.S. 71/I-540 to flow unimpeded as it does now (except for backups during peak times). The modiifed connector simply allows access to usable parts of the Bella Vista Bypass so that folks in Hiwassee, Gravette and those that live in west Bella Vista can use it.
I can see how this would be appropriate, as ridiculous as it sounds.  Thank you, AHTD.
I would love to see the plans, as others have stated.
(above quote from Question for AHTD: SPUI / DDI thread)

The January 21 AHTD Presentation to the Siloam Springs Rotary Club has been posted and it includes this depiction of the initial connection between Highway 71 and the Bella Vista Bypass:



AHTD, I assume this the concept that you have mentioned?

Indeed it is. Been working to get this and other graphics together to post in this forum and will do so once the traffic simulation model is ready.
Logged
Travel and construction information available at www.idrivearkansas.com

AHTD

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 303
  • www.idrivearkansas.com

  • Age: 106
  • Location: Arkansas
  • Last Login: June 21, 2017, 07:31:14 PM
    • AHTD Online
Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #637 on: January 22, 2014, 04:03:48 PM »

AHTD, do you work with Parks and Tourism at all on the visitor welcome centers?  Just wondering if you've heard whether a new visitor's center would be opened along I-49 (when it's eventually completed) at the Arkansas/Missouri border, given how big the combined Northwest Arkansas/Fort Smith area has now become, and how small the existing on at Bella Vista on U.S. 71 is?

Sorry if this is out of your agency's scope.  Just curious on it.  Thank you in advance for anything you can post.

AHTD maintains and operates the welcome centers and rest areas in Arkansas. The welcome centers are staffed by the Arkansas Department of Parks & Tourism. AHTD owns all of the welcome centers except the one in Little Rock and the one in Mammoth Spring. These are owned by Parks & Tourism.
 
You can display the location of these facilities at www.idrivearkansas.com. Click on the location icons and a dialog box opens with pertinent information. Rest areas in Arkansas are not staffed. There is a great article in the current issue of Arkansas Highways about our welcome centers. It begins on page 10 here: http://www.arkansashighways.com/Magazine/2014/January/ARHighwaysMagazine_January2014_web2.pdf
 
As for the location of a new welcome center at the Missouri state line on the Bella Vista Bypass, it has been discussed but no decision on whether a new facility would be in addition to or in place of the existing facility on U.S. 71 in Bella Vista.
 
 
Logged
Travel and construction information available at www.idrivearkansas.com

english si

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3535
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Buckinghamshire, England
  • Last Login: November 27, 2019, 04:02:44 AM
Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #638 on: January 22, 2014, 04:40:58 PM »

Oh that, that's no hassle at all.

I expected from the doom and gloom on here that the trumpet would be replaced by a roundabout while the SPUI was built.
Logged

rte66man

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1118
  • Location: Warr Acres, OK
  • Last Login: November 27, 2019, 05:39:09 PM
Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #639 on: January 23, 2014, 08:02:45 PM »

Oh that, that's no hassle at all.

I expected from the doom and gloom on here that the trumpet would be replaced by a roundabout while the SPUI was built.

I would disagree.  If you are northbound on 540, you would have to take the trumpet back under 540, then make a sharp right to get on the bypass.  Cars will do OK, but semis will have some trouble getting the acceleration needed to make it if they have to yield first.

Logged
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

NE2

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13912
  • fuck

  • Age: 11
  • Location: central Florida
  • Last Login: December 05, 2019, 02:30:02 PM
Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #640 on: January 23, 2014, 09:15:25 PM »

I would disagree.  If you are northbound on 540, you would have to take the trumpet back under 540, then make a sharp right to get on the bypass.  Cars will do OK, but semis will have some trouble getting the acceleration needed to make it if they have to yield first.
And where does the bypass go for now? Suburban nowhere.
Logged
Florida route log | pre-1945
I will do my best to not make America hate again.
Global warming denial is barely worse than white privilege denial.

english si

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3535
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Buckinghamshire, England
  • Last Login: November 27, 2019, 04:02:44 AM
Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #641 on: January 24, 2014, 05:34:07 AM »

I would disagree.  If you are northbound on 540, you would have to take the trumpet back under 540, then make a sharp right to get on the bypass.  Cars will do OK, but semis will have some trouble getting the acceleration needed to make it if they have to yield first.
And what would you put instead? Some sort of signalised junction where semis would need to stop, and then make a tighter turn? That roundabout doesn't look small or tight.

And what NE2 said about it going nowhere...
Logged

Grzrd

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3424
  • Interested Observer

  • Location: Atlanta, GA
  • Last Login: July 31, 2019, 11:24:20 AM
Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #642 on: January 24, 2014, 04:00:39 PM »

Well, Missouri needs another $25 million and Arkansas needs another $50 million to finish a four-lane BVB.

From a January 23 presentation to the Rogers-Lowell Area Chamber of Commerce (page 60/61 of pdf):



AHTD is about to build a $30 million temporary roundabout for the Bella Vista Bypass.  If Missouri only needs another $25 million to finish its section of the Bella Vista Vypass, why can't AHTD and MoDOT work out a deal where AHTD would somehow "advance" $25 million of the $30 million roundabout money to MoDOT for immediate construction of the Missouri section of the BVB?  It would seem like a more efficient use of the money because Missouri would complete its section more quickly and there would be no need for the roundabout.
Logged

codyg1985

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2065
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Huntsville, AL
  • Last Login: December 05, 2019, 09:00:19 AM
Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #643 on: January 24, 2014, 04:38:40 PM »

If the roundabout costs $30 million, then something is seriously wrong. I'm hoping that is the cost of the segment between Hiwassee and US 71, including the roundabout.
Logged
Cody Goodman
Huntsville, AL, United States

AHTD

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 303
  • www.idrivearkansas.com

  • Age: 106
  • Location: Arkansas
  • Last Login: June 21, 2017, 07:31:14 PM
    • AHTD Online
Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #644 on: January 24, 2014, 05:28:54 PM »

Whoops!
 
That slide was supposed to have been removed from this presentation. We are making that correction and re-posting the presentation.
 
HOWEVER - codyg1985 IS CORRECT - the modified connector AND the stretch of the BVB from the connector to State Highway 72 south will be let as one contract and the ballpark estimate for this is $30 million.
Logged
Travel and construction information available at www.idrivearkansas.com

Gordon

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 194
  • Last Login: December 05, 2019, 10:49:10 PM
Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #645 on: January 24, 2014, 06:21:45 PM »

Thanks AHTD for the info on the interchange. I recently wrote MTOD about there part of the bypass and here is what they said. With the Federal money uncertain and not enough state money to finish there part,  they will move the money that is planned in 2014 STIP to general funds because it doesn't make sense to do part of it. But they are looking to see if an Initiative petition process moves forward with the state of Missouri to put it up to voters to finish the Bella Vista Bypass.
Logged

rte66man

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1118
  • Location: Warr Acres, OK
  • Last Login: November 27, 2019, 05:39:09 PM
Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #646 on: January 24, 2014, 10:30:40 PM »

I would disagree.  If you are northbound on 540, you would have to take the trumpet back under 540, then make a sharp right to get on the bypass.  Cars will do OK, but semis will have some trouble getting the acceleration needed to make it if they have to yield first.
And what would you put instead? Some sort of signalised junction where semis would need to stop, and then make a tighter turn? That roundabout doesn't look small or tight.

And what NE2 said about it going nowhere...

IIRC, Smithfield has a very large plant south of Gravette.  That is why I thought there would be more than a trickle of trucks.  Someone who is more familiar with the area can confirm or deny. 
Logged
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

M86

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 500
  • Livin' the dream, in my dreams

  • Location: South Dakota
  • Last Login: November 30, 2019, 04:47:58 AM
Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #647 on: January 25, 2014, 01:34:48 AM »

I would disagree.  If you are northbound on 540, you would have to take the trumpet back under 540, then make a sharp right to get on the bypass.  Cars will do OK, but semis will have some trouble getting the acceleration needed to make it if they have to yield first.
And what would you put instead? Some sort of signalised junction where semis would need to stop, and then make a tighter turn? That roundabout doesn't look small or tight.

And what NE2 said about it going nowhere...

IIRC, Smithfield has a very large plant south of Gravette.  That is why I thought there would be more than a trickle of trucks.  Someone who is more familiar with the area can confirm or deny. 

I'm not sure about the Gravette plant, but I think you're correct.  I know we have Walmart (as much as I despise them) distribution centers and Tyson plants. I see semis all the time through "town".

I feel for the semi truck drivers... This roundabout is going to be worse than what is there now, especially at peak times, like when traffic backs up in the afternoon all the way to the hill in Bella Vista on US 71 southbound.
Logged

AHTD

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 303
  • www.idrivearkansas.com

  • Age: 106
  • Location: Arkansas
  • Last Login: June 21, 2017, 07:31:14 PM
    • AHTD Online
Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #648 on: January 28, 2014, 04:33:02 PM »

As promised, see link below to view the animated traffic model of the Bella Vista modified connector.
 
Logged
Travel and construction information available at www.idrivearkansas.com

M86

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 500
  • Livin' the dream, in my dreams

  • Location: South Dakota
  • Last Login: November 30, 2019, 04:47:58 AM
Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #649 on: January 30, 2014, 02:11:16 AM »

As promised, see link below to view the animated traffic model of the Bella Vista modified connector.
 


Thanks, AHTD. 
The signage and lighting need to be adequate for this to work efficiently.
Logged

 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.