End of Credit Card Rewards? [The Credit Card Competition Act]

[Rothman]

"I gave you a 20"
"No, it was a 10"
etc.

I have never once had a cashier push the argument when I corrected them on how much change I was due.  Not once.  Nor have I heard any of my friends and family mention it having happened.

But there have been plenty of instances of double-charging or fraudulent charges when I or they used plastic.

Pfft.  When I was a cashier, the suggested argument came up a bunch of times.

[kphoger]

Also, the hassles of reversing a fraudulent charge on plastic, or replacing a lost or stolen card (including the time needed to physically get a new one) can be mind numbing.

If I accidentally drop a $20 note of the sidewalk, I likely wont even notice it missing.  Yes, I'm out $20.  BUT, I'm out $20 AND NOTHING ELSE.  No hassles, nothing else, and life goes on.  You can't say that with plastic.

The person I know who has had this happen multiple times lives in a foreign country with a US card.  Multiply the hassle!

[Rothman]

Huh.  I have found fraudulent charges to be annoying the couple of times I've had to deal with them, but they've still been easy to reverse.  I never lost any money due to them.

Losing cash, though?  That's worse, since I'm out money.

[kphoger]

Geez, how much cash do you guys carry in your wallet at a time?

[ZLoth]

Geez, how much cash do you guys carry in your wallet at a time?

Unless I'm heading upward to a Oklahoma casino (in which case, it's the Jackson 5 in my wallet), usually, less than $20. As I'm WFHing and an adult caregiver, sometimes it's empty.

For other people, it's this:

[kphoger]

That's what I'm getting at.  Even if I lose all the cash out of my wallet, it's not like I'm out a boatload of money.  Let alone the pittance that would be the result of miscounted change by a cashier.

[kalvado]

That's what I'm getting at.  Even if I lose all the cash out of my wallet, it's not like I'm out a boatload of money.  Let alone the pittance that would be the result of miscounted change by a cashier.

strictly speaking, if you get a problem with  a credit (not a debit) card, you don't loose anything. You may loose an option for easy purchase, but funds actually never leave your pocket.
With that, I had a total of 3 credit card problems (including a lost card) and 1 checking account problem over the years. Total loss - some time spent on the phone and at the bank. 

[kphoger]

strictly speaking, if you get a problem with  a credit (not a debit) card, you don't loose anything. You may loose an option for easy purchase, but ...

This is the fact that seems to be escaping people.

For example, let's say you're on a road trip and relying on your credit card.  Unbeknownst to you, the Phillips 66 pump you fill up at in Lubbock has a card skimmer.  Four days later, you're checking your account while waiting for your lunch order at a Love's/Wendy's truck stop in Cheyenne, and you notice two fraudulent gas purchases at the Lubbock Phillips 66 station;  you weren't even in Texas anymore when you supposedly purchased those tanks of gas.  So you contact your credit card company to report the fraud, and they lock your card so they can investigate.  You finish your Baconator, go back outside, and pull up to the pump.  Now how do you pay?

[kalvado]

strictly speaking, if you get a problem with  a credit (not a debit) card, you don't loose anything. You may loose an option for easy purchase, but ...

This is the fact that seems to be escaping people.

For example, let's say you're on a road trip and relying on your credit card.  Unbeknownst to you, the Phillips 66 pump you fill up at in Lubbock has a card skimmer.  Four days later, you're checking your account while waiting for your lunch order at a Love's/Wendy's truck stop in Cheyenne, and you notice two fraudulent gas purchases at the Lubbock Phillips 66 station;  you weren't even in Texas anymore when you supposedly purchased those tanks of gas.  So you contact your credit card company to report the fraud, and they lock your card so they can investigate.  You finish your Baconator, go back outside, and pull up to the pump.  Now how do you pay?

well, what if you lost that lone $50 which was in your wallet? Same thing.
I, for one, have a total of 4 cards I can use - 2 credit and 2 debit. Memorizing main card data after replacement is the biggest inconvenience I was getting.  And yes, $100 in cash for the trip is a must
And whatever it worth, whenever I was talking to the bank about a card problem, they explicitly asked if I have any other payment options or need some help - not sure what they would be offering (see above), but apparently problem is well known.

Now getting my wallet stollen is another escalation...

[kphoger]

I've just found that it makes more sense to primarily use cash on a trip, and have the card as a backup.  I've had a to use a card in an emergency, to buy a wheel bearing at AutoZone in Mexico when one of the vehicles broke down in the middle of the desert.  $100 in backup cash would not have helped me in that case, considering the part cost more than $100.  Meanwhile, I never have to worry about fraudulent charges when paying with cash.  I can fill up at the very same gas stations where our friends have had fraudulent charges in the past (and yes, they've had it happen at multiple locations), without having to worry about that because they don't have my card information.  I never have to worry about my card being declined for any reason, because cash always works.

[GaryV]

I had only one unfortunate incident. I was traveling with my daughter's robotics team, my wife was at home. Our car got stolen from in front of our house. Sadly she had left her wallet in the car, so we had to cancel all our cards and get new ones. I was in charge of paying the team's entrance to Six Flags - fortunately it had been a prior charge and was already on the card and we got in.

Another time I had a charge for Broadway tickets charged to my card; I think it was at one of those same-day kiosk kind of things. I simply called up to dispute it saying we'd never been in New York it and the charge got removed, and we got a new card number. In the meantime I used one of my other cards.

Anyone remember traveler's checks?

[kphoger]

Anyone remember traveler's checks?

From childhood family vacations, yes.

[Rothman]

I've just found that it makes more sense to primarily use cash on a trip, and have the card as a backup.  I've had a to use a card in an emergency, to buy a wheel bearing at AutoZone in Mexico when one of the vehicles broke down in the middle of the desert.  $100 in backup cash would not have helped me in that case, considering the part cost more than $100.  Meanwhile, I never have to worry about fraudulent charges when paying with cash.  I can fill up at the very same gas stations where our friends have had fraudulent charges in the past (and yes, they've had it happen at multiple locations), without having to worry about that because they don't have my card information.  I never have to worry about my card being declined for any reason, because cash always works.

Credit cards give me points, so on trips, the benefits far outweigh using cash (get robbed, lose your cash; get robbed with plastic, you cancel the card and you're not out any money).  That's even with me going through the exact scenario outlined above where my card was canceled due to the fraudulent charges.  If you've got money to travel, you've should have multiple options to pay your way (e.g., an extra credit card, debit card...bartering... ).

[jeffandnicole]

When cards are stolen, the credit card companies can easily see the person's normal spending. If someone is making routine purchases at home, and suddenly they buy 6 iPhones then 2 TVs at an electronics store 300 miles away, there's a pretty good clue that the cardholder didn't make that purchase.

Our cards have only been hacked a few times, and once or twice the CC company notified us immediately that something seemed unusual. 

Once they contacted me about a $100 Google Play purchase, and I declined it.  Only a few weeks later did I realize it was a legit purchase - I had gotten my mom Google Ring cameras and a subscription to view the camera history.  Since there was a free 1 month trial, the card wasn't charged until a month later.  With the vague description of "Did you make a $100 Google Play purchase", it didn't click the reason why at the time.

Traveler's Checks:  Yep - my parents used them all the time.  I did too on my first trip or two, but stopped when they were more of a hassle than they needed to be with credit cards becoming the norm.  When I worked the NJ Turnpike tolls, I had a few people try giving them to me - we refused them.  One person was pissed because he already signed it.  Not my fault man - you signed it before I said I couldn't accept them.

[ZLoth]

For example, let's say you're on a road trip and relying on your credit card.  Unbeknownst to you, the Phillips 66 pump you fill up at in Lubbock has a card skimmer.  Four days later, you're checking your account while waiting for your lunch order at a Love's/Wendy's truck stop in Cheyenne, and you notice two fraudulent gas purchases at the Lubbock Phillips 66 station;  you weren't even in Texas anymore when you supposedly purchased those tanks of gas.  So you contact your credit card company to report the fraud, and they lock your card so they can investigate.  You finish your Baconator, go back outside, and pull up to the pump.  Now how do you pay?

If I am on vacation or on a road trip, I carry along my backup credit cards for exactly this reason. A corollary to this is that some stations will also do a pre-authorization of $75-$100 and then process the actual charge once the fillup is completed. The pre-authorization reduces the available credit on a credit card, but also reduces the balance available on a debit card. It can take a few days to "settle up", but if you have a low balance on your debit card, that can really hurt.

[kphoger]

To those who say the solution to credit card issues is to carry an additional credit card, I say...  The solution to stolen cash is to carry additional cash.   

[jeffandnicole]

To those who say the solution to credit card issues is to carry an additional credit card, I say...  The solution to stolen cash is to carry additional cash.   

If someone is worried about their debit card having a pre-authorization against it reducing the available amount, chances are they also don't have extra cash to keep around either.

[kphoger]

If someone is worried about their debit card having a pre-authorization against it reducing the available amount, chances are they also don't have extra cash to keep around either.

... or, in general...

multiple options to pay your way

[hbelkins]

Many people prefer cash because it's not contingent upon some electronic system failing to work.

I had to go to a car dealership to buy a wiper blade yesterday.

(Long story.  This was the first time I've had to replace a wiper blade on this vehicle.  I went to AutoZone and bought the correct length of my usual brand, only to get home and find out that Chevrolet decided to use a proprietary type of connection, such that a normal blade won't go on the arm.  A few weeks ago, therefore, I went to a dealership to get one from the parts counter.  They were out of stock and wouldn't be getting any new ones for who knows how long, due to the ongoing GM strike.  So I went home, found one on Amazon, and ordered it for delivery.  Time passed, and the order wasn't shipping, and then we got a notification that the seller was no longer in business with Amazon.  Ugh.  By this point, half the rubber element was flopping around on the windshield, and rain was coming up in the forecast.  So yesterday, I went to a different dealership and bought one.  I actually like these connectors better than the standard ones, but what a hassle...)

Anywho...  The guy behind the parts counter ran my card.  But the system was taking forever.  So he voided the transaction and ran it again.  Each of these steps took several minutes, so I probably had my new wiper blade in hand for like fifteen minutes or more, just waiting on payment to process.  Finally, he handed me the receipt.  It said "amount paid $0.00".  But he said don't worry about that:  it took my money just fine.  "Hopefully just once", I half-joked.

So, in the end, I wasted a bunch of time, got an incorrect receipt, and left a bit uncertain that I hadn't been double-charged.  All because I used a card instead of cash.  If I had used cash, none of that would have been true.

But with cash if a mistake is made it can be difficult or impossible to ascertain what happened.
"I gave you a 20"
"No, it was a 10"
etc.
With a card, what you were charged is going to show up on the bill, and you can cross validate that against the receipt which should show cost of goods sold. Even if the receipt is wrong, you can still point to the price tag on the shelf or product for what you were supposed to pay.

Even better is the integration of credit cards by retailers. Every time I shop at Walmart I use my card, and without doing anything else my receipts and purchase history are on my Walmart account. Extremely convenient.

That's not the case with me. It's true when I do a walmart.com pickup or delivery order, but if want an in-store purchase to show up in my purchase history (which I do, because it makes reordering the item easier) I have to scan the bar code on the receipt with the Walmart app.

[Scott5114]

I just timed myself counting 60 quarters. 15.40 seconds. Doesn't really seem like much of an inconvenience to me...

But with cash if a mistake is made it can be difficult or impossible to ascertain what happened.
"I gave you a 20"
"No, it was a 10"

You put a camera in the ceiling, pointing down square at the counter, and train the cashier to set incoming money on the counter so it's visible to the camera. And then you set outgoing change on the counter too. Now if there's any dispute it's just a matter of checking the camera.

You can also just run the drawer anytime there's a dispute, and if you shorted the customer the drawer will come out over, but that takes more time.

[Pink Jazz]

I oppose this with a fiery passion. Unfortunately I expect 100% of Democrats in the House and Senate to vote Yes on this bill. There needs to be enough Republican support to kill this. I hope this gets challenged in court and gets Durbin expelled from office with a lifetime ban from ever holding any other position in office.

[hotdogPi]

I hope this gets challenged in court and gets Durbin expelled from office with a lifetime ban from ever holding any other position in office.

Which part of the bill is challengeable, and how is contributing to a bill that gets rejected by the courts (which happens all the time) worthy of expulsion?

[kkt]

I had only one unfortunate incident. I was traveling with my daughter's robotics team, my wife was at home. Our car got stolen from in front of our house. Sadly she had left her wallet in the car, so we had to cancel all our cards and get new ones. I was in charge of paying the team's entrance to Six Flags - fortunately it had been a prior charge and was already on the card and we got in.

Another time I had a charge for Broadway tickets charged to my card; I think it was at one of those same-day kiosk kind of things. I simply called up to dispute it saying we'd never been in New York it and the charge got removed, and we got a new card number. In the meantime I used one of my other cards.

Anyone remember traveler's checks?

I haven't used them myself, but I've seen my parents use them when I was a kid.

[Pink Jazz]

I hope this gets challenged in court and gets Durbin expelled from office with a lifetime ban from ever holding any other position in office.

Which part of the bill is challengeable, and how is contributing to a bill that gets rejected by the courts (which happens all the time) worthy of expulsion?

This bill is a blatant violation of the Bill of Attainder clause, since it specifically targets the credit card companies.

[rm rant about individual politician -S.]

[Scott5114]

That's not what a bill of attainder is.