End of Credit Card Rewards? [The Credit Card Competition Act]

[Rothman]

Of course, you are also looking at the person who would prefer that the credit card processing machine be brought to the table and a pin entered to process a credit card transaction rather than put the credit card on a tray. (Some restaurants do provide a QR Code to pay at the table.) This is on top of the elimination of the easily-copied magnetic stripe in favor of the card chip.

Living in a country where this is the norm, it's weird to go back to the U.S. where the waiter just takes your card somewhere and does something with it.

Heh.  I was an idiot at a Denny's once where the waitress scanned my card with a dooohickey on her belt.

Turned out it was a skimmer and fradulent charges started popping up.  Found out it was her because she and her partner in crime made the news.

[Scott5114]

That's 1 business out of hundreds of thousands. These armored cars exist in every state, including states without casinos.  There's only so many banks in an area.  What your BK did doesn't mean every BK operates in the same manor.  $1,000 is also, well, small.  Go to a business where purchases are $50 - $100 each transaction rather than $5 - $10, and you'll probably get a different response as to how cash is handled.  Even if a minority of those transactions are cash, that's still a lot of money.  Supermarkets, department stores, drug stores, high-volume convenience stores, etc all will have a lot of cash on hand, more than what they're willing to give to any store employee to take to the bank.

Which brings me to a slight irritation... the ban on cashless business. If you accept cash, you have to keep enough cash on-hand in order to make change. That opens you up to possible theft due to large amounts of cash. Now, for some businesses like fast food restaurants, grocery stores, and laundermats, where the typical value of a transaction is low and the number of corresponding transactions is high, yes, it makes sense to accept cash. For other businesses where the value of transactions is high, they should be allowed to go "cashless" and accept credit cards or electronic transfers for payment to avoid the risk of cash theft. It's their business, let them face the consequences of their decision. Yet, the states of California, Oregon, Montana, Colorado, Tennesse, Pennsylvania, New York, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New Jersey, and Deleware have told business "No, you must continue to accept cash."

Of course, you are also looking at the person who would prefer that the credit card processing machine be brought to the table and a pin entered to process a credit card transaction rather than put the credit card on a tray. (Some restaurants do provide a QR Code to pay at the table.) This is on top of the elimination of the easily-copied magnetic stripe in favor of the card chip.

If cash theft is possible to get away with at all, that means your accounting and loss prevention procedures suck.

I had a coworker get canned once because they caught him with a quarter he wasn't supposed to have.

[formulanone]

Don't tell me there are armored vans transporting cash from AutoZone and Olive Garden to the bank every night.

"Did someone say Olive Garden?"

-- Rothman, probably

Evergreen post, take a bow.

[SectorZ]

Yet, the states of California, Oregon, Montana, Colorado, Tennesse, Pennsylvania, New York, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New Jersey, and Deleware have told business "No, you must continue to accept cash."

Although since the pandemic, sporting complexes seem to have a permitted work-around, where they only take credit, and cash people can go to an exchange machine to receive a debit card in exchange for their cash.  I think the Linc in Philly has 2 machines.  They have at least one at Citizens Bank Park in Philly also, but I've never seen it.

While Massachusetts doesn't allow it, as usual they do exempt their own government. For example, at state parks, I cannot pay cash in their payment machines anymore, starting with upgraded machines around 2021.

[kkt]

At least when it comes to brick-and-mortar stores, I've seen $10 minimums for credit card purchases more often than outright cash-only policies.

I've seen several physical sellers that change a fee for credit card transactions under $10.

This doesn't really make sense — credit is a percentage, while debit is a flat amount.

It's pretty straightforward.  If the merchant is making enough of a profit on the sale, they can afford the percentage.  If the profit is very small on the sale, the cut for the credit card company eats up all the profit margin.

[hbelkins]

That's 1 business out of hundreds of thousands. These armored cars exist in every state, including states without casinos.  There's only so many banks in an area.  What your BK did doesn't mean every BK operates in the same manor.  $1,000 is also, well, small.  Go to a business where purchases are $50 - $100 each transaction rather than $5 - $10, and you'll probably get a different response as to how cash is handled.  Even if a minority of those transactions are cash, that's still a lot of money.  Supermarkets, department stores, drug stores, high-volume convenience stores, etc all will have a lot of cash on hand, more than what they're willing to give to any store employee to take to the bank.

Which brings me to a slight irritation... the ban on cashless business. If you accept cash, you have to keep enough cash on-hand in order to make change. That opens you up to possible theft due to large amounts of cash. Now, for some businesses like fast food restaurants, grocery stores, and laundermats, where the typical value of a transaction is low and the number of corresponding transactions is high, yes, it makes sense to accept cash. For other businesses where the value of transactions is high, they should be allowed to go "cashless" and accept credit cards or electronic transfers for payment to avoid the risk of cash theft. It's their business, let them face the consequences of their decision. Yet, the states of California, Oregon, Montana, Colorado, Tennesse, Pennsylvania, New York, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New Jersey, and Deleware have told business "No, you must continue to accept cash."

I guess the phrase "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private" means something in those states.

[hotdogPi]

I guess the phrase "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private" means something in those states.

This has nothing to do with that phrase. Massachusetts must allow cash whether it's a debt or not. Cash for debts (i.e. you receive the item or service before you pay) must be accepted everywhere.

[ZLoth]

From FailBlog/Cheezburder:

'I pulled 60 quarters out of my pocket and set them on the counter': Restaurant cashier complains about credit card transactions, prompting one of her regulars to teach her a lesson about the inconvenience of cash

Credit cards are insanely convenient. Nowadays, you don't even need to swipe your card to pay, you can just whip that little bad boy out, tap your plastic money on the terminal, and BAM, you've made a purchase. Old school folks have reluctantly accepted that everyone prefers to pay with plastic money, idealizing the old ways of counting cash and receiving change in exchange for goods or services. But with all that spare change jangling around in your pocket, wouldn't you rather embrace the future and pick up a trusty rectangular bank account that only takes up a 2"x3" surface area in your wallet? Obviously there are other nuisances in the cash versus card world, like small businesses getting charged to run credit transactions, but for most of the world, we're happy to pay $0.15 on a transaction in order to avoid having cash bills and coins in our care.

In this story, a cashier at a small restaurant was taught a quick lesson in the costs and benefits of cash payments. After months of accosting regulars for using their credit cards (and accepting the fee included), one patron decided that he would teach this young cashier about the inconveniences of cash. Scroll onward for the metallic revenge of a restaurant pirate, unloading his treasures to pay for a sandwich. Next up, check out this story of a Karen who stalks her old house after selling it, pushing the new residents to their limit.

FULL ARTICLE HERE

[hotdogPi]

Many other countries say that coins are only legal tender up to a certain number of coins. The United States does not, but something like "a maximum of 25 of each coin" is a solution to things like this (although the story above doesn't seem to actually involve legal tender laws, as it was a pay at the counter restaurant and not a sit-down restaurant).

Also, don't most businesses give out more quarters than they receive? It was sixty quarters and not 1500 pennies, so it might have actually been useful to them.

[kphoger]

Also, don't most businesses give out more quarters than they receive? It was sixty quarters and not 1500 pennies, so it might have actually been useful to them.

Yeah, I once paid for something with a roll of quarters or nickels or whatever (too long ago, don't remember the denomination) because that's all I had, and the cashier was positively over the moon about it.

[kalvado]

From FailBlog/Cheezburder:

'I pulled 60 quarters out of my pocket and set them on the counter': Restaurant cashier complains about credit card transactions, prompting one of her regulars to teach her a lesson about the inconvenience of cash

Credit cards are insanely convenient. Nowadays, you don't even need to swipe your card to pay, you can just whip that little bad boy out, tap your plastic money on the terminal, and BAM, you've made a purchase. Old school folks have reluctantly accepted that everyone prefers to pay with plastic money, idealizing the old ways of counting cash and receiving change in exchange for goods or services. But with all that spare change jangling around in your pocket, wouldn't you rather embrace the future and pick up a trusty rectangular bank account that only takes up a 2"x3" surface area in your wallet? Obviously there are other nuisances in the cash versus card world, like small businesses getting charged to run credit transactions, but for most of the world, we're happy to pay $0.15 on a transaction in order to avoid having cash bills and coins in our care.

In this story, a cashier at a small restaurant was taught a quick lesson in the costs and benefits of cash payments. After months of accosting regulars for using their credit cards (and accepting the fee included), one patron decided that he would teach this young cashier about the inconveniences of cash. Scroll onward for the metallic revenge of a restaurant pirate, unloading his treasures to pay for a sandwich. Next up, check out this story of a Karen who stalks her old house after selling it, pushing the new residents to their limit.

FULL ARTICLE HERE

I specifically like that the picture at the end of the story shows a handful of coins - but neither US coins nor coins of same value as it is in the story....

[hbelkins]

Many people prefer cash because it's not contingent upon some electronic system failing to work.

Or some arbitrary "social credit" system where your access to your bank account gets shut off for whatever reason. (I'm not that person, but there are plenty of people out there who legitimately are fearful of not being able to access their funds).

[kphoger]

Many people prefer cash because it's not contingent upon some electronic system failing to work.

I had to go to a car dealership to buy a wiper blade yesterday.

(Long story.  This was the first time I've had to replace a wiper blade on this vehicle.  I went to AutoZone and bought the correct length of my usual brand, only to get home and find out that Chevrolet decided to use a proprietary type of connection, such that a normal blade won't go on the arm.  A few weeks ago, therefore, I went to a dealership to get one from the parts counter.  They were out of stock and wouldn't be getting any new ones for who knows how long, due to the ongoing GM strike.  So I went home, found one on Amazon, and ordered it for delivery.  Time passed, and the order wasn't shipping, and then we got a notification that the seller was no longer in business with Amazon.  Ugh.  By this point, half the rubber element was flopping around on the windshield, and rain was coming up in the forecast.  So yesterday, I went to a different dealership and bought one.  I actually like these connectors better than the standard ones, but what a hassle...)

Anywho...  The guy behind the parts counter ran my card.  But the system was taking forever.  So he voided the transaction and ran it again.  Each of these steps took several minutes, so I probably had my new wiper blade in hand for like fifteen minutes or more, just waiting on payment to process.  Finally, he handed me the receipt.  It said "amount paid $0.00".  But he said don't worry about that:  it took my money just fine.  "Hopefully just once", I half-joked.

So, in the end, I wasted a bunch of time, got an incorrect receipt, and left a bit uncertain that I hadn't been double-charged.  All because I used a card instead of cash.  If I had used cash, none of that would have been true.

[HighwayStar]

Many people prefer cash because it's not contingent upon some electronic system failing to work.

I had to go to a car dealership to buy a wiper blade yesterday.

(Long story.  This was the first time I've had to replace a wiper blade on this vehicle.  I went to AutoZone and bought the correct length of my usual brand, only to get home and find out that Chevrolet decided to use a proprietary type of connection, such that a normal blade won't go on the arm.  A few weeks ago, therefore, I went to a dealership to get one from the parts counter.  They were out of stock and wouldn't be getting any new ones for who knows how long, due to the ongoing GM strike.  So I went home, found one on Amazon, and ordered it for delivery.  Time passed, and the order wasn't shipping, and then we got a notification that the seller was no longer in business with Amazon.  Ugh.  By this point, half the rubber element was flopping around on the windshield, and rain was coming up in the forecast.  So yesterday, I went to a different dealership and bought one.  I actually like these connectors better than the standard ones, but what a hassle...)

Anywho...  The guy behind the parts counter ran my card.  But the system was taking forever.  So he voided the transaction and ran it again.  Each of these steps took several minutes, so I probably had my new wiper blade in hand for like fifteen minutes or more, just waiting on payment to process.  Finally, he handed me the receipt.  It said "amount paid $0.00".  But he said don't worry about that:  it took my money just fine.  "Hopefully just once", I half-joked.

So, in the end, I wasted a bunch of time, got an incorrect receipt, and left a bit uncertain that I hadn't been double-charged.  All because I used a card instead of cash.  If I had used cash, none of that would have been true.

But with cash if a mistake is made it can be difficult or impossible to ascertain what happened.
"I gave you a 20"
"No, it was a 10"
etc.
With a card, what you were charged is going to show up on the bill, and you can cross validate that against the receipt which should show cost of goods sold. Even if the receipt is wrong, you can still point to the price tag on the shelf or product for what you were supposed to pay.

Even better is the integration of credit cards by retailers. Every time I shop at Walmart I use my card, and without doing anything else my receipts and purchase history are on my Walmart account. Extremely convenient.

[SP Cook]

My cleaners does not take cash. 

It is just a store in a strip mall, the laundry is taken somewhere else and washed and brought back.  I take it that they don't pay much, because it is always a different person there and they often look sketchy.  And it is always a female. 

So they had to go to the bank, get cash for change every morning, and then reverse the process in the evening.  Waste of time and dangerous for the female worker.   

So they just take cards.  No harm, no foul.  And there are other cleaners if you don't like that.

[kphoger]

"I gave you a 20"
"No, it was a 10"
etc.

I have never once had a cashier push the argument when I corrected them on how much change I was due.  Not once.  Nor have I heard any of my friends and family mention it having happened.

But there have been plenty of instances of double-charging or fraudulent charges when I or they used plastic.

[HighwayStar]

"I gave you a 20"
"No, it was a 10"
etc.

I have never once had a cashier push the argument when I corrected them on how much change I was due.  Not once.  Nor have I heard any of my friends and family mention it having happened.

But there have been plenty of instances of double-charging or fraudulent charges when I or they used plastic.

I've had the argument over what I gave them (actually, it was a dispute over the coin so it was very stupid on their part).

However with a card I'm not liable for fraud or incorrect charges so if it happens (and I've never had it with a merchant I did business with) my liability is $0 anyway and I simply inform the card issuer of that.

[kphoger]

However with a card I'm not liable for fraud or incorrect charges so if it happens (and I've never had it with a merchant I did business with) my liability is $0 anyway and I simply inform the card issuer of that.

Which only matter after the fact.  In the middle of the dispute, after your card has already had thousands of dollars fraudulently charged but before everything gets resolved with the bank, it can be a different story.

[GaryV]

Many people prefer cash because it's not contingent upon some electronic system failing to work.

When's the last time you saw a mechanical cash register? If the register is down (including connections to the home office by whatever magical interweb), they don't know how to charge you for anything.

Back in the mostly cash days, we paid for a purchase. (So long ago, the company has long been out of business and the building has housed at least two other businesses.) I was supposed to get some dollar amount and 88 cents back. She gave me 8 cents - because that's what showed up on the register because the center LED segment on the cash register was out. The cashiers, even way back then, were so used to the machine working and thinking for them that they couldn't comprehend that if the bill came to something and 12 cents, the customer should get more than 8 cents back.

On the topic of card-only locations, I've seen that at 2 zoos recently. If you don't have a card, you can go to an ATM to get a temporary debit card. I don't know what happens if you put your $20 in the machine, but lunch costs you $16.93. Do you go back to the machine when exiting to get the balance on your temp card back? Or do you just have to eat the difference?

[hotdogPi]

When's the last time you saw a mechanical cash register? If the register is down (including connections to the home office by whatever magical interweb), they don't know how to charge you for anything.

The place where I play Magic: the Gathering allows cash purchases during power outages.

[gonealookin]

However with a card I'm not liable for fraud or incorrect charges so if it happens (and I've never had it with a merchant I did business with) my liability is $0 anyway and I simply inform the card issuer of that.

Which only matter after the fact.  In the middle of the dispute, after your card has already had thousands of dollars fraudulently charged but before everything gets resolved with the bank, it can be a different story.

It's a good idea to have at least two cards, with different banks, so that if/when there's an issue with one you can just pull the next one off the deck.

I've never had a huge fraudulent charge go on my account.  Occasionally someone has gotten my credit card number and when that has happened, it seems like they do a test charge to check the legitimacy of the account.  Something like $3 to Amazon Prime that they hope you will overlook.  I'm pretty obsessive about monitoring my accounts, checking the up-to-date status online at least every other day, so when I have seen something like that it's still listed as a "pending" transaction and I call the bank's fraud department immediately to prevent any further charges to that account number.  They issue a new card with a different number, and while I'm waiting for that to arrive I use the alternate card.

I avoid the type of bill payment where you have to write all of your credit card info (account no., security code, expiration date) on the slip attached to the bill and mail it back to who-knows-whom.  In the event I have to do that (I think the dentist and plumber bills get paid that way) I get one of those "virtual account numbers" from the credit card bank's website and write that one down instead, which makes it unnecessary to wait for a new card with a new main account number.

[SectorZ]

When's the last time you saw a mechanical cash register? If the register is down (including connections to the home office by whatever magical interweb), they don't know how to charge you for anything.

The place where I play Magic: the Gathering allows cash purchases during power outages.

Do they hand out flashlights at night, too?

[hotdogPi]

When's the last time you saw a mechanical cash register? If the register is down (including connections to the home office by whatever magical interweb), they don't know how to charge you for anything.

The place where I play Magic: the Gathering allows cash purchases during power outages.

Do they hand out flashlights at night, too?

No, but it was a Saturday when I was there and the power was out, and they're only open in the daytime on Saturdays.

[HighwayStar]

However with a card I'm not liable for fraud or incorrect charges so if it happens (and I've never had it with a merchant I did business with) my liability is $0 anyway and I simply inform the card issuer of that.

Which only matter after the fact.  In the middle of the dispute, after your card has already had thousands of dollars fraudulently charged but before everything gets resolved with the bank, it can be a different story.

The only time I had fraud I called the bank, told them which charges were fraudulent, and they sent me a new card.
I don't care about thousands of dollars on the card I didn't spend, because my liability is $0. Its like caring about a bill for my neighbor that shows up in my mailbox, its not my liability, therefore I could care less what the value is.

Cash on the other hand, once stolen, is virtually guaranteed to never be recovered. If your wallet is lost/stolen you are unlikely to get the money in it back.

[mgk920]

Also, the hassles of reversing a fraudulent charge on plastic, or replacing a lost or stolen card (including the time needed to physically get a new one) can be mind numbing.

If I accidentally drop a $20 note of the sidewalk, I likely wont even notice it missing.  Yes, I'm out $20.  BUT, I'm out $20 AND NOTHING ELSE.  No hassles, nothing else, and life goes on.  You can't say that with plastic.

Mike