Francis Scott Key Bridge (I-695) complete collapse after large ship hits it

[Rothman]

I found this source for comparing PDB vs. regular DB:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0361198118822315

In a regular DB project, a DOT knows clearly what it wants to build, say a bypass. PDB is appropriate if you're not sure exactly what you want to build and you need a contractor who can help first with the concept phase and then progress to the design phase and finally to the construction phase.

Yikes.  Next thing you know, there will be a preferred list for those contractors, too.  DB on freakin' steroids.

As a mentor of mine said, "DB means getting the project done twice as fast for twice the price."  And now, you want the consultant to do scoping and phases I-IV?  Market competition is becoming an oxymoron.

[J N Winkler]

There is also this explainer:

https://www.keybridgerebuild.com/images/resources/Deeper-Dive-Progressive-Design-Build-2023-pidtpk.pdf

Essentially, progressive design-build has the contractor take the design to roughly the 40% to 60% stage, the point at which conventional design-build usually begins.

[bwana39]

Design build is pretty much ubiquitous in Louisiana. In Texas it is fairly common FIGG was doing design build on both the Beltway 8 ship channel bridge (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=15429.0) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=25100.msg2419951#msg2419951)


 as well as the new Corpus Christi Harbor Bridge. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=11684.0)

[J N Winkler]

Design build is pretty much ubiquitous in Louisiana. In Texas it is fairly common. FIGG was doing design build on both the Beltway 8 ship channel bridge (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=15429.0) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=25100.msg2419951#msg2419951) as well as the new Corpus Christi Harbor Bridge (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=11684.0).

AIUI, as a result of its involvement in the FIU bridge collapse, Figg is debarred from working on federally funded projects until 2029.  (As the company is named after its founder, structural engineer Eugene C. Figg, I refuse to go along with the all-uppercase branding.)

[Henry]

They ought to tear down the fucking bridge right now, and build a new one in its place; the remainder doesn't look safe to me, not even as a fishing pier.

[Rothman]

They ought to tear down the fucking bridge right now, and build a new one in its place; the remainder doesn't look safe to me, not even as a fishing pier.

I'll take the opinion of the teams working on the bridge over this rash statement.

[jeffandnicole]

They ought to tear down the fucking bridge right now, and build a new one in its place; the remainder doesn't look safe to me, not even as a fishing pier.

How was the remainder of the bridge affected by the collapse? The pier hit was holding up the structure that collapsed. The approaches were unaffected.

[bluecountry]

I can pretty much guarantee the Key Bridge won't be rebuilt to the original design.

*  When this happens with waterway crossings that have lost spans due to vessel collisions, typically a large fraction of the bridge has survived--this happened with the Tasman Bridge in Australia, I-40 at Webbers Falls in Oklahoma, and the Queen Isabella Causeway in Texas.  The part of the Key Bridge that collapsed represents about half of the over-the-water length but probably at least 80% of the construction cost and nearly all of the complexity.

*  Once the Port of Baltimore reopens, a lot of the pressure to "do something" about the bridge will vanish.  The Key Bridge was one of three major crossings but represented just one-quarter of the capacity.  It contributed a smaller share of the total MdTA revenue pie than the Harbor Tunnel (7% versus 12%) despite their having the same lane count.  The absence of the bridge does not even inconvenience local commuters that much, since the Harbor Tunnel is a relatively close detour.  (The Tasman Bridge is a useful counterexample--its collapse in 1975 turned a five-minute journey from one end of the bridge to the other into a 45-minute trip involving the Bridgewater Bridge much further upstream.  This situation led not only to provision of a temporary ferry, but also construction of the Bowen Bridge midway between the repaired bridge and the erstwhile detour to improve network redundancy.)  It is the ruins of the bridge blocking the shipping channel, and not its unavailability to road traffic, that really drives costs.

*  To rebuild the Key Bridge as-is would be to recreate its safety deficiencies (no shoulders) and its vulnerabilities (piers that cannot be protected without impinging on the shipping channel).  I believe this would be politically completely unacceptable, especially with the precedent set by the Sunshine Skyway.  No politician is going to want to go before the voters and say, "Well, in Florida they can rebuild with better defenses, but here in Maryland we're just going to have to go with the cheap solution that is not actually all that cheap and eat the risks associated with it."

So you would expect the replacement bridge, at the very least, would be 10-12-12-10_10-12-12-10 per side (2 12 foot travel lanes, 2 ten foot shoulder lanes per side) if not more?
If so would this also become the real I-695 vs MD 695?

for 4-lane divided, the inside shoulders can be 6' preferred, 4' minimum.

So at the very least it will be 2 12 foot lanes per side, 4-6 foot inside and 10 foot outside shoulders?
Think they will just go ahead and give it a 3rd trade lane per side?

To the first question, I would hope yes, but then again, (1) it is not an Interstate albeit signed as one (officially MD-695), and (2) MDTA just built the new Nice Bridge with microscopic shoulders, so I wouldn't bet on it.

To the second question, (1) traffic counts really don't justify it (3x,000 AADT is pretty low, especially in MD), and (2) see above  for MDTA's value engineering history.

1.  301 was not part of the interstate system as I-695.
2.  I would think since the Federal government is funding this now they would make this up to full interstate design.

[cockroachking]

1.  301 was not part of the interstate system as I-695.
2.  I would think since the Federal government is funding this now they would make this up to full interstate design.

1. Nor was MD-695.
2. That may very well be the case. We'll just have to wait and see. But I won't be surprised if it isn't.

[davewiecking]

Despite the link wording, this article is about more than just the recovery of the 5th worker:
https://wtop.com/baltimore/2024/05/body-of-5th-missing-worker-found-more-than-a-month-after-baltimore-bridge-collapse-officials-say/

Most interesting thing from my point of view is that the bridge was insured by Chubb Insurance, who is about to make a $350 million payment to Maryland-expected to be the first of several payments.

Also an interview with Transpo Secy Weidefeld, who should probably be advised by someone about the above insurance payment:
https://wtop.com/baltimore/2024/05/it-is-a-very-aggressive-time-frame-md-transportation-secretary-elaborates-on-plan-to-rebuild-key-bridge/

[Henry]

Despite the link wording, this article is about more than just the recovery of the 5th worker:
https://wtop.com/baltimore/2024/05/body-of-5th-missing-worker-found-more-than-a-month-after-baltimore-bridge-collapse-officials-say/

This confirms our suspicions that the new bridge will be built on the exact same alignment as the old one:

On Thursday morning, crews were preparing for a controlled demolition that will break down the largest remaining span and send it tumbling into the water. Then a massive hydraulic grabber will lift the resulting sections of steel onto barges.

The hydraulic grabber, which officials have called the largest in the country, was also in motion Thursday morning. Moving ever so slowly, the giant claw descended into the depths of the Patapsco River and emerged with a steel beam in its trusses. It was operating in tandem with the Chesapeake 1000, one of the largest cranes on the Eastern Seaboard.

Seeing that a toll gantry went up in 2020, it wouldn't be wise to move it anyway. So they'll blow up the whole thing and reuse the surface approaches for the new bridge. Which brings us back to the previous thought:

There are three options for replacement.

Rebuild the missing section. If the approaches are still viable, they could rebuild just the section that was destroyed. This would be less than ideal, but could be done faster and at a lower cost.

Demolish the existing bridge and replace in the same location. This would be the slowest of the options.

Build a new bridge facility adjacent to it.  This COULD expedite the process, but environmental clearance might make this slower than demo and replace faster.

It looks like the second one will happen, based on the news development above. Four years is optimistic, and I'm still holding out hope for a cable-stayed replacement, as truss bridges are now a thing of the past.

[rickmastfan67]

They're looking at an aggressive timeline to replace the bridge.  They think they can have a new bridge up by 2028!

[Rothman]

Even relaxing "safeguards" within DOT bureaucratic processes can speed things up considerably, especially if your local FHWA division is persuaded to be more lenient than usual...

(personal opinion emphasized)

[PColumbus73]

Honestly, the article doesn't have much to it, but apparently, an Italian company is putting out a proposal to rebuild the Key Bridge. That's basically the whole article, no information on estimated time or cost.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/italys-webuild-sends-proposal-rebuild-collapsed-baltimore-bridge-2024-05-03/

It looks like the second one will happen, based on the news development above. Four years is optimistic, and I'm still holding out hope for a cable-stayed replacement, as truss bridges are now a thing of the past.

It seems inevitable that a cable-stayed bridge would be used. If so, I'd like to see the new one incorporate an arch design into it to evoke the former bridge.

[vdeane]

It seems inevitable that a cable-stayed bridge would be used. If so, I'd like to see the new one incorporate an arch design into it to evoke the former bridge.

How about a tied arch bridge like the Crown Point Bridge?

[PColumbus73]

It seems inevitable that a cable-stayed bridge would be used. If so, I'd like to see the new one incorporate an arch design into it to evoke the former bridge.

How about a tied arch bridge like the Crown Point Bridge?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking about. Or something like the Margaret McDermott Bridge in Dallas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_McDermott_Bridge#/media/File:MMB_Dallas_Nima2.jpg

[Henry]

It seems inevitable that a cable-stayed bridge would be used. If so, I'd like to see the new one incorporate an arch design into it to evoke the former bridge.

How about a tied arch bridge like the Crown Point Bridge?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking about. Or something like the Margaret McDermott Bridge in Dallas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_McDermott_Bridge#/media/File:MMB_Dallas_Nima2.jpg

Those are some great suggestions (especially since the Crown Point Bridge also replaced a continuous truss bridge over Lake Champlain), but still, it looks like my preference will be built after the severed parts of the old bridge have been blown up.

[GaryV]

How much shipping is there in Lake Champlain? Or in Dallas? /s

[ixnay]

How much shipping is there in Lake Champlain?

A canal connects Lake Champlain with the Hudson River.  Lake Champlain flows northward into the Richelieu River, which flows into the St. Lawrence below Montreal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Champlain_Seaway

Or in Dallas? /s

The McDermott Bridge, which looks like Dallas's version of the Big Mac on I-471 in Cincinnati, spans the flood plain of the shallow Trinity River.

https://tinyurl.com/mwk69nrm

[kalvado]

How much shipping is there in Lake Champlain?

A canal connects Lake Champlain with the Hudson River.  Lake Champlain flows northward into the Richelieu River, which flows into the St. Lawrence below Montreal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Champlain_Seaway

Or in Dallas? /s

The McDermott Bridge, which looks like Dallas's version of the Big Mac on I-471 in Cincinnati, spans the flood plain of the shallow Trinity River.

https://tinyurl.com/mwk69nrm

Have you seen Champlain canal, busting with traffic to the tune of 2 ships a day?
At least Erie canal has that Great Loop traffic...

[epzik8]

Thanks for removing bridge street view Google.

[GaryV]

How much shipping is there in Lake Champlain?

A canal connects Lake Champlain with the Hudson River.  Lake Champlain flows northward into the Richelieu River, which flows into the St. Lawrence below Montreal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Champlain_Seaway

Or in Dallas? /s

The McDermott Bridge, which looks like Dallas's version of the Big Mac on I-471 in Cincinnati, spans the flood plain of the shallow Trinity River.

https://tinyurl.com/mwk69nrm

Exactly. Small boats and barges, if anything. Not 1000 foot container ships needing high clearances.

[MASTERNC]

If it is going to take 4 years they're going to need to address the traffic issues. Maybe they'll accelerate the hard shoulder running on the Beltway?

[bwana39]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking about. Or something like the Margaret McDermott Bridge in Dallas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_McDermott_Bridge#/media/File:MMB_Dallas_Nima2.jpg

The McDermott Bridge is only the bicycle lanes that are supported by the arch. On the nearby Hunt bridge, the bridge is a deck bridge with the arch aesthetic only.

[MASTERNC]

The Federal Register is proposing the removal of the bridge from the National Network until it is rebuilt and the designation of the alternative route around the city

https://www.federalregister.gov/public-inspection/2024-10025/emergency-temporary-closure-segment-of-interstate-695-including-the-francis-scott-key-bridge-in