Francis Scott Key Bridge (I-695) complete collapse after large ship hits it

[kphoger]

Secondarily, religion is not allowed to be discussed on the forum.  -Mark

From Forum Guidelines -- What's not allowed:
Posting topics and debates related to religion. These kind of topics almost always start a heated debate.

So apparently that includes posts that have some casual religious idea in it?

I guess technically we were "debating" whether the cartoon horn-headed dude was Judeo-Christian or Hellenistic in origin... 

For what it's worth, I joined the forum in 2011, and I'm not sure I can even recall a single instance of religious discussion turning into "a heated debate".  People on here pretty well respect each other's religious or atheist beliefs and differences.

That's some classic forum shade right there. Scott5114 sounds like the kind of admin who's seen one too many pixelated exit signs and has zero chill left for anything resembling "casual input." Dismissing opinions as "irrelevant" over a cartoon quip? Peak pedantry, as his bio proudly claims.

No, I'm pretty sure that was his way of saying that he doesn't agree with you about cartoons' being "very simple" and not "true art".

A lot of cartoons are indeed simple, low-brow works.  But others are more sophisticated and complex, and even deal with deep topics.

A lot of religious art is indeed layered, thought-provoking, and intricate.  But some of it is just a painting of a worm crawling out of a 14-century Mallorcan saint's leg.

[PColumbus73]

But some of it is just a painting of a worm crawling out of a 14-century Mallorcan saint's leg.

Would you love the Francis Scott Key Bridge if it were a worm?

[Beltway]

No, I'm pretty sure that was his way of saying that he doesn't agree with you about cartoons' being "very simple" and not "true art".

Actually I have a nephew that is a professional artist and mainly in very elaborate comic books which are quite artistic. Name is Micah Gunnell and you can look him and his art works up online. I find it kind of odd but it is what it is.

[kphoger]

But some of it is just a painting of a worm crawling out of a 14-century Mallorcan saint's leg.

Would you love the Francis Scott Key Bridge if it were a worm?

I would love the Key Bridge if it were replaced in kind, but underwater, and decorated with cartoonish yet artistic worm-themed religious motifs.

[Beltway]

But some of it is just a painting of a worm crawling out of a 14-century Mallorcan saint's leg.

Would you love the Francis Scott Key Bridge if it were a worm?

I would love the Key Bridge if it were replaced in kind, but underwater, and decorated with cartoonish yet artistic worm-themed religious motifs.

Worm-themed Key Bridge underwater? Only if it's got high-capacity ramps and none of this claptrap about "artistic motifs" clogging up the FEIS. Those worms that dieth not better be load-rated for 80,000 AADT!

Sounds like a skunkworks plan so full of baloney it would make Ipecac blush. Baltimore's already choking on detour guff -- let's not add cartoon worms to the piffle pile!

Keywords: bafflegab, baloney, vomic, Ipecac, Ralph, Huey, jabberwocky, codswallop, skunkworks, poppycock, guff, bunkum, piffle

[kphoger]

Only if it's got high-capacity ramps and none of this claptrap about "artistic motifs" clogging up the FEIS.

The ramps will be high capacity, but they will be above water, protected by dolphins (and guinea worms).

[Scott5114]

No, I'm pretty sure that was his way of saying that he doesn't agree with you about cartoons' being "very simple" and not "true art".

I wouldn't bother to write the rest of this post out, if not for the fact that me and you have had interesting discussions on the subject of "what is art" previously, so I think you might appreciate an elaboration that would be a waste of time if I were to write it for Beltway's benefit.

Some people (including, apparently, Beltway) get the impression that elaborate detail and technical prowess is what makes something "good art". Nothing could be further from the truth—overly detailing a work (or focusing too much on displaying technical prowess in other ways) can distract from the message the art is trying to communicate. Imagine, for instance, a scene of a cowboy riding a horse across a desert landscape. If you focus on detailing every crag in the mountains, every spike on the cacti (or joshua trees), every branch of every sagebrush, your horse and rider are apt to get lost in the sea of detail as the reader's mind tries to figure out what exactly it is that they are supposed to focus on. Likewise, if you go to great lengths to display your command of color theory by elaborately shading a beautiful sunset in the sky, the reader may get lost in appreciation of that and not notice the horse and rider at all.

Put another way, there's a time for elaborate, detailed calligraphy and there's a time for Series E(M) on a plain green background. Both can be art—if they couldn't, nobody would have opinions on the latter and this forum wouldn't exist.

There's also something to be said for conservation of effort and time management. I like to dabble in reading webcomics from time to time. There are too many artists who crash and burn because they end up trying to make every panel a highly-detailed artistic masterpiece, which means it takes too long to actually get a damn page out the door, and the comic halts mid-story because they lose motivation to keep working on it. I would rather read a comic with a simple art style that the artist has enough gas in the tank to actually finish than a technical masterpiece that I never get to know the ending of. If you look at the funnies in the paper, most of the artists there have learned this lesson well—something like Garfield or Blondie is done in a simple enough style that it probably takes most of them no more than an hour or two to slam out a single daily strip, and probably no more than four to do a Sunday strip.

In my own experience, there's a point at which I start to feel like a piece I've done is becoming "overworked". That is, I've fiddled with it so much that I'm starting to lose track of what I'm even doing, and continuing to work on it means it's more likely to get worse rather than better. I have normally have the luxury of being able to set such a piece down for a period of months until I can come back and look at it with fresh eyes and either fix it or scrap it and start over fresh. If I had a deadline, I wouldn't be able to do that...which would mean necessarily finishing the piece before it becomes overworked.

Additionally, traditional comic books can afford the level of detail they do because there is an entire team behind them. There's usually a page with the staff credits where separate people are credited for writing, pencil sketches, inking, coloring, and lettering, and sometimes there's even an entirely separate artist that just does action scenes or something like that. "More detail = more better" would seem to imply that something is necessarily a higher form of art just because it has five or six people working on it, rather than just one. And to me, that's a ridiculous notion.

The fact that this other so-called Scott doesn't seem to have thought about any of this before coming to an opinion on it makes me question whether he knows what he's talking about when he spouts his opinion on any other subject. Or as I said before—he has no credibility.

[Beltway]

No, I'm pretty sure that was his way of saying that he doesn't agree with you about cartoons' being "very simple" and not "true art".

I wouldn't bother to write the rest of this post out, if not for the fact that me and you have had interesting discussions on the subject of "what is art" previously, so I think you might appreciate an elaboration that would be a waste of time if I were to write it for Beltway's benefit.

Relax.
Relax.

I frankly don't have a lot of opinions about art is and what constitutes art work. What one person thinks is horrible is what another person may think is the Cat's Meow. And vice versa.

Here is another malady that some folks in our roads community suffer from -- anatidaephobia.

[NE2]

🐄🔨🪚

[PColumbus73]

Graphic design is my passion

[freebrickproductions]

Is Beltway trying to be funny?

[kphoger]

Is Beltway trying to be funny?

I think he's trying to be "ironic".  Or "meta".  Or something.

[kphoger]

art

I actually didn't get the impression that Other Scott equated technical prowess with good art.  I assumed there's something else about cartoons that makes him consider them to be "very simple" and not "true art".  But I don't know exactly what that might be.

[Plutonic Panda]

Is Beltway trying to be funny?

They're being cringe now its hard to watch.

[Alex]

Skimming through the 9 pages of new posts in this thread, it appears that it has degraded to back and forth scrutinizing with an occasional post actually staying on topic. I see a lack of decorum from the staff too. Locking this thread for now.

Since this is still a relevant and important topic, going to unlock it. Please try to hold some restraint with gaslighting.

[The Ghostbuster]

We all should stay on topic and keep the thread from going off the rails like before. Otherwise, I'm sure this thread will be locked again. This time for good!

[freebrickproductions]

We all should stay on topic and keep the thread from going off the rails like before. Otherwise, I'm sure this thread will be locked again. This time for good!

Not to mini-mod here, but, just as a reminder, if you (generic) want to discuss/propose alternative solutions for replacing the Francis Scott Key Bridge, no matter how serious or silly, including a tunnel, there is a thread over in Fictional just for that. This thread should probably be kept to the inciting incident and the currently proposed replacement bridge.

[Rothman]

Thread should still be locked until more actual news happens.

[NE2]

Thread should still be locked until more actual news happens.

https://phys.org/news/2025-10-north-atlantic-dolphins-dying-younger.html

[LilianaUwU]

Thread should still be locked until more actual news happens.

but what if i want to post dumb shit? i cant just make a thread in offtopic about that, right?

[Max Rockatansky]

Thread should still be locked until more actual news happens.

but what if i want to post legacy stewardship shit? i cant just make a thread in offtopic about that, right?

FIFY

[Henry]

I don't think there'll be any new developments for several more weeks, aside from the rest of the bridge getting deconstructed so the new one can be built. I still expect new and improved dolphins/fender protection systems to be built into the harbor as well. Also, it doesn't help that a transmission line is still crossing the river, because what if that ship took out one of the towers and knocked out electricity to an entire suburb (presumably Dundalk)?

[kphoger]

but what if i want to post dumb shit? i cant just make a thread in offtopic about that, right?

Well, not with that attitude, you can't.  You'll never succeed if you never try!

Non-Road Boards ► Off-Topic ► Compilation: LilianaUwU's dumb shit in one thread

[GaryV]

Non-Road Boards ► Off-Topic ► Compilation: LilianaUwU's dumb shit in one thread

And changed in the "change one letter thread" to
Non-Road Boards ► Off-Topic ► Compilation: LilianaUwU's dump shit in one thread

[Beltway]

I don't think there'll be any new developments for several more weeks, aside from the rest of the bridge getting deconstructed so the new one can be built. I still expect new and improved dolphins/fender protection systems to be built into the harbor as well. Also, it doesn't help that a transmission line is still crossing the river, because what if that ship took out one of the towers and knocked out electricity to an entire suburb (presumably Dundalk)?

They have a new rendering of the design posted on their project page.

It still shows no protection system other than about 100 feet of concrete island around the main piers.

Then can't just wait until the bridge is finished to add more protection; even early on when main piers start to rise, a strike would cause very expensive damage, so the protection system should be in place before the bridge starts to rise. Supposedly they are saying construction could begin soon.

This is the part no one wants to talk about: the bridge is most vulnerable while it's being built. The Dali didn't wait for a ribbon-cutting. Neither will the next one. MDTA's renderings still show only static islands, therefore the design is already behind the threat curve.

I posted on a project forum:
OK, where can we look at the design for the protection system? The fact is that the technology to keep a Panamax sized ship from destroying a deep water bridge pier is unproven and untested.

A poster replied:
they haven't released the designs... try taking off the foil hat.

I replied:
Dismissing legitimate engineering concerns with "foil hat" rhetoric is not only lazy -- it's intellectually dishonest. I raised a specific, testable claim: that the technology to prevent catastrophic failure from a Panamax-class vessel striking a deepwater bridge pier remains unproven at full scale.

You conceded the designs haven't been released, which only reinforces the need for scrutiny, not mockery -- and before construction begins. In high-risk maritime corridors, transparency isn't a luxury -- it's a prerequisite for public trust and 21st century-grade infrastructure. If you're content to wave off structural risk with sarcasm, that's your prerogative.

But don't confuse principled skepticism with paranoia. Some of us still believe that asking hard questions is a civic responsibility, not a conspiracy theory. Try engaging the argument, not the straw man.