Reddit CEO Says Paywalls are Coming Soon

Started by vdeane, February 15, 2025, 04:04:37 PM

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kalvado

Quote from: thspfc on February 19, 2025, 09:03:01 AMWhy would a business care about a customer's morals? That could only ever lose them money. Except for maybe mortgages, cars, and predatory private lending.
To keep their high moral standing in @vdeane view?


SEWIGuy

Quote from: vdeane on February 18, 2025, 10:49:54 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 18, 2025, 10:21:30 PMWell you brought up a ton of stuff in your paragraph above...but somehow forgot to include "can't charge for something that once was free." lol.

I take it that logic really isn't a strong suit of yours.
So I have to restate everything I previously said whenever I reply to you?  What the actual fuck?

Now you're just being deliberately obtuse.


I'M being obtuse!?!?!?

You think that's it's "morally repugnant" and it should be illegal for company to charge for something they used to give away free. That's an absolutely ridiculous opinion - there is no deception or fraud if Reddit decides to do this. So what is the harm exactly?

Furthermore your attempts to justify your opinion have lead you down a philosopical rabbit hole of all sorts of inconsistancies and contradictions. And unfortunately, you don't seem to understand how they are inconsistent and contradict themselves. You are basing everything on feelings and vibes and not on logic and facts - and a complete lack of understanding of how the world actually works.

thspfc

Quote from: kalvado on February 19, 2025, 09:09:19 AM
Quote from: thspfc on February 19, 2025, 09:03:01 AMWhy would a business care about a customer's morals? That could only ever lose them money. Except for maybe mortgages, cars, and predatory private lending.
To keep their high moral standing in @vdeane view?

In that world, the customer still has the power. Businesses would never shrink their customer base on purpose unless either a) it's profitable or b) the law implores them to do so.

Molandfreak

Quote from: thspfc on February 19, 2025, 09:03:01 AMWhy would a business care about a customer's morals? That could only ever lose them money. Except for maybe mortgages, cars, and predatory private lending.
I mean, if I were a small business owner and someone like Nick Fuentes requested service, I would take great pleasure in telling him to fuck off.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 05, 2023, 08:24:57 PMAASHTO attributes 28.5% of highway inventory shrink to bad road fan social media posts.

kalvado

Quote from: thspfc on February 19, 2025, 09:21:09 AM
Quote from: kalvado on February 19, 2025, 09:09:19 AM
Quote from: thspfc on February 19, 2025, 09:03:01 AMWhy would a business care about a customer's morals? That could only ever lose them money. Except for maybe mortgages, cars, and predatory private lending.
To keep their high moral standing in @vdeane view?

In that world, the customer still has the power. Businesses would never shrink their customer base on purpose unless either a) it's profitable or b) the law implores them to do so.
I know there is an ongoing shortage of eggs, but I though sarcasm is still stocked up normally?

Max Rockatansky

Going back to near the beginning of this entire conversation.  The part I'm not understanding is why it should be illegal for a company to take a free service and make it something you have to pay for? 

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: kalvado on February 19, 2025, 09:35:42 AM
Quote from: thspfc on February 19, 2025, 09:21:09 AM
Quote from: kalvado on February 19, 2025, 09:09:19 AM
Quote from: thspfc on February 19, 2025, 09:03:01 AMWhy would a business care about a customer's morals? That could only ever lose them money. Except for maybe mortgages, cars, and predatory private lending.
To keep their high moral standing in @vdeane view?

In that world, the customer still has the power. Businesses would never shrink their customer base on purpose unless either a) it's profitable or b) the law implores them to do so.
I know there is an ongoing shortage of eggs, but I though sarcasm is still stocked up normally?

Come to Jalisco, they are $44 Pesos for a pack of 18 eggs as of last night.  The price actually went down slightly this week even.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 19, 2025, 09:37:13 AMGoing back to near the beginning of this entire conversation.  The part I'm not understanding is why it should be illegal for a company to take a free service and make it something you have to pay for?

"Because vdeane doesn't want to pay for it" is pretty much the best justification that's come from this topic.

kalvado

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 19, 2025, 09:37:13 AMGoing back to near the beginning of this entire conversation.  The part I'm not understanding is why it should be illegal for a company to take a free service and make it something you have to pay for?
One case when it may be illegal is when free service is used to displace competitors offering the same service for a fee, and establishing new fees when the competition is out of business.
Not that it's the reddit case, but as an example of legality.

thspfc

Quote from: kalvado on February 19, 2025, 09:35:42 AM
Quote from: thspfc on February 19, 2025, 09:21:09 AM
Quote from: kalvado on February 19, 2025, 09:09:19 AM
Quote from: thspfc on February 19, 2025, 09:03:01 AMWhy would a business care about a customer's morals? That could only ever lose them money. Except for maybe mortgages, cars, and predatory private lending.
To keep their high moral standing in @vdeane view?

In that world, the customer still has the power. Businesses would never shrink their customer base on purpose unless either a) it's profitable or b) the law implores them to do so.
I know there is an ongoing shortage of eggs, but I though sarcasm is still stocked up normally?
Oh, of course. Wouldn't want to be morally repugnant or anything.

thspfc

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 19, 2025, 09:38:00 AM
Quote from: kalvado on February 19, 2025, 09:35:42 AM
Quote from: thspfc on February 19, 2025, 09:21:09 AM
Quote from: kalvado on February 19, 2025, 09:09:19 AM
Quote from: thspfc on February 19, 2025, 09:03:01 AMWhy would a business care about a customer's morals? That could only ever lose them money. Except for maybe mortgages, cars, and predatory private lending.
To keep their high moral standing in @vdeane view?

In that world, the customer still has the power. Businesses would never shrink their customer base on purpose unless either a) it's profitable or b) the law implores them to do so.
I know there is an ongoing shortage of eggs, but I though sarcasm is still stocked up normally?

Come to Jalisco, they are $44 Pesos for a pack of 18 eggs as of last night.  The price actually went down slightly this week even.
A mere 40 hour drive.

JayhawkCO

Quote from: thspfc on February 19, 2025, 10:17:41 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 19, 2025, 09:38:00 AM
Quote from: kalvado on February 19, 2025, 09:35:42 AM
Quote from: thspfc on February 19, 2025, 09:21:09 AM
Quote from: kalvado on February 19, 2025, 09:09:19 AM
Quote from: thspfc on February 19, 2025, 09:03:01 AMWhy would a business care about a customer's morals? That could only ever lose them money. Except for maybe mortgages, cars, and predatory private lending.
To keep their high moral standing in @vdeane view?

In that world, the customer still has the power. Businesses would never shrink their customer base on purpose unless either a) it's profitable or b) the law implores them to do so.
I know there is an ongoing shortage of eggs, but I though sarcasm is still stocked up normally?

Come to Jalisco, they are $44 Pesos for a pack of 18 eggs as of last night.  The price actually went down slightly this week even.
A mere 40 hour drive.

A true roadgeek could turn it into a 55 hour drive and clinch some more roads. :)

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: JayhawkCO on February 19, 2025, 10:21:57 AM
Quote from: thspfc on February 19, 2025, 10:17:41 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 19, 2025, 09:38:00 AM
Quote from: kalvado on February 19, 2025, 09:35:42 AM
Quote from: thspfc on February 19, 2025, 09:21:09 AM
Quote from: kalvado on February 19, 2025, 09:09:19 AM
Quote from: thspfc on February 19, 2025, 09:03:01 AMWhy would a business care about a customer's morals? That could only ever lose them money. Except for maybe mortgages, cars, and predatory private lending.
To keep their high moral standing in @vdeane view?

In that world, the customer still has the power. Businesses would never shrink their customer base on purpose unless either a) it's profitable or b) the law implores them to do so.
I know there is an ongoing shortage of eggs, but I though sarcasm is still stocked up normally?

Come to Jalisco, they are $44 Pesos for a pack of 18 eggs as of last night.  The price actually went down slightly this week even.
A mere 40 hour drive.

A true roadgeek could turn it into a 55 hour drive and clinch some more roads. :)

I guarantee there is plenty of worthwhile stuff between here and the border.  FritzOwl got my attention on clinching Federal Highway 24 some day.

Molandfreak

Quote from: thspfc on February 19, 2025, 10:17:41 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 19, 2025, 09:38:00 AM
Quote from: kalvado on February 19, 2025, 09:35:42 AM
Quote from: thspfc on February 19, 2025, 09:21:09 AM
Quote from: kalvado on February 19, 2025, 09:09:19 AM
Quote from: thspfc on February 19, 2025, 09:03:01 AMWhy would a business care about a customer's morals? That could only ever lose them money. Except for maybe mortgages, cars, and predatory private lending.
To keep their high moral standing in @vdeane view?

In that world, the customer still has the power. Businesses would never shrink their customer base on purpose unless either a) it's profitable or b) the law implores them to do so.
I know there is an ongoing shortage of eggs, but I though sarcasm is still stocked up normally?

Come to Jalisco, they are $44 Pesos for a pack of 18 eggs as of last night.  The price actually went down slightly this week even.
A mere 40 hour drive.
Duck eggs are also an option. There are quite a few local operations in MN selling to the co-ops. There's a different texture, but overall similar in taste.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 05, 2023, 08:24:57 PMAASHTO attributes 28.5% of highway inventory shrink to bad road fan social media posts.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Molandfreak on February 19, 2025, 11:00:27 AM
Quote from: thspfc on February 19, 2025, 10:17:41 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 19, 2025, 09:38:00 AM
Quote from: kalvado on February 19, 2025, 09:35:42 AM
Quote from: thspfc on February 19, 2025, 09:21:09 AM
Quote from: kalvado on February 19, 2025, 09:09:19 AM
Quote from: thspfc on February 19, 2025, 09:03:01 AMWhy would a business care about a customer's morals? That could only ever lose them money. Except for maybe mortgages, cars, and predatory private lending.
To keep their high moral standing in @vdeane view?

In that world, the customer still has the power. Businesses would never shrink their customer base on purpose unless either a) it's profitable or b) the law implores them to do so.
I know there is an ongoing shortage of eggs, but I though sarcasm is still stocked up normally?

Come to Jalisco, they are $44 Pesos for a pack of 18 eggs as of last night.  The price actually went down slightly this week even.
A mere 40 hour drive.
Duck eggs are also an option. There are quite a few local operations in MN selling to the co-ops. There's a different texture, but overall similar in taste.

Plenty of farm and grocery store options for regular chicken eggs in Fresno.  The competition from panic buyers has mostly been limited to the realm of Costco shoppers.  Eggs get so much mileage for me that even the elevated price is still a drop in the bucket. 

vdeane

Quote from: kalvado on February 19, 2025, 08:08:15 AM
Quote from: vdeane on February 18, 2025, 10:49:54 PM
Quote from: kalvadoWith such an approach... Be prepared to submit for a background and credit check before being allowed to shop for groceries in any given store. A separate one for each store. Add fingerprinting for each restaurant order.
Why?

If you care that much about the moral aspect of business, it would only be responsible for the business to care about the morality of the customer. Since there is no social score system yet, using credit rating and criminal record may be appropriate. Actually banks are legally turning down customers with low credit rating, so it should be somewhat legal.
A minimum of 720 to shop Trader Joe and 700 for Hannaford should be about right, maybe? Otherwise go to Walmart!

PS happy goat have eaten quote format!
Still doesn't follow.  The purpose of society, and therefore the businesses in it, is to serve people.  Businesses aren't people, people are people.  Worrying about the morals of everything is the job of law enforcement and the courts (once the law is revamped for the protection and benefit of normal people and not capital, anyways).

Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 19, 2025, 09:19:11 AMI'M being obtuse!?!?!?

You think that's it's "morally repugnant" and it should be illegal for company to charge for something they used to give away free. That's an absolutely ridiculous opinion - there is no deception or fraud if Reddit decides to do this. So what is the harm exactly?

Furthermore your attempts to justify your opinion have lead you down a philosopical rabbit hole of all sorts of inconsistancies and contradictions. And unfortunately, you don't seem to understand how they are inconsistent and contradict themselves. You are basing everything on feelings and vibes and not on logic and facts - and a complete lack of understanding of how the world actually works.
You're the one who demanded that I restate every argument I've made in the whole thread in every post I reply to you, so yes.  I have never even heard of such a thing.  Dear God, I'm responding to forum posts of someone who I suspect I have more than a few political differences with - not writing a manifesto.

The harm is how it affects the users of the site and makes their lives less convenient than before.  The fact that society doesn't seem to care is not my problem.

I do have at least some knowledge of how the world works - not enough to "work the system" and maneuver myself into a position of influence (alas), but enough to hold humanity in disdain and believe that, unless something seriously changes, humanity represents a threat to any more civilized societies that may or may not exist across the universe.  Let's hope humanity changes before it gets the power to head out there, because humanity being able to leave this solar system in its present state would be the worst thing to every happen to any life form living elsewhere.  Where we have issue is that, while most people seem to learn how the world works and think "I guess that makes it OK" (it's amazing how social pressure is one of the strongest forces in the universe on the human psyche - thankfully, I seem to have a certain amount of resistance to it), instead it only served to make me horrified and dig into my beliefs even more.

The fact of the matter is, and IPO being something that is seen by a threat of people who like a business is one of the fundamental problems of our society.  I know Wegmans fans are dreading the day that Danny kicks the bucket and the daughters decide to go public.  The Reddit IPO was considered by users of the site to be one of the worst things that ever happened to it.  Some API changes from it resulted in a days-long blackout protest that the site still hasn't fully recovered from, as many just never returned (sadly, they went to Discord rather than Lemmy...).

Quote from: kalvado on February 19, 2025, 09:46:26 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 19, 2025, 09:37:13 AMGoing back to near the beginning of this entire conversation.  The part I'm not understanding is why it should be illegal for a company to take a free service and make it something you have to pay for?
One case when it may be illegal is when free service is used to displace competitors offering the same service for a fee, and establishing new fees when the competition is out of business.
Not that it's the reddit case, but as an example of legality.
Or in the case of Reddit, the free service displaced other free services.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

kalvado

Quote from: vdeane on February 19, 2025, 01:01:15 PM
Quote from: kalvado on February 19, 2025, 08:08:15 AM
Quote from: vdeane on February 18, 2025, 10:49:54 PM
Quote from: kalvadoWith such an approach... Be prepared to submit for a background and credit check before being allowed to shop for groceries in any given store. A separate one for each store. Add fingerprinting for each restaurant order.
Why?

If you care that much about the moral aspect of business, it would only be responsible for the business to care about the morality of the customer. Since there is no social score system yet, using credit rating and criminal record may be appropriate. Actually banks are legally turning down customers with low credit rating, so it should be somewhat legal.
A minimum of 720 to shop Trader Joe and 700 for Hannaford should be about right, maybe? Otherwise go to Walmart!

PS happy goat have eaten quote format!
Still doesn't follow.  The purpose of society, and therefore the businesses in it, is to serve people.  Businesses aren't people, people are people.  Worrying about the morals of everything is the job of law enforcement and the courts (once the law is revamped for the protection and benefit of normal people and not capital, anyways).
Yet you want business to have their values aligned with yours - including moral and religious values (sunday hours, medical coverage details, donations to (im)proper politicians are common reasons for indignation). So why same should not be true for the business (not) willing to serve people who have their values not aligned with theirs? Business may be not a person, depending on who you ask - but it does have owners who are people with their morals and  values.
And in a buyer market business would be certainly chasing sales, but what if it turns into a seller market?

Quote from: vdeane on February 19, 2025, 01:01:15 PMOr in the case of Reddit, the free service displaced other free services.

Many would say that was an honest competition of free services. And discussion on service monetization are going on for decades, whoever won would need to cash things out after all.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: vdeane on February 19, 2025, 01:01:15 PMYou're the one who demanded that I restate every argument I've made in the whole thread in every post I reply to you, so yes.  I have never even heard of such a thing.  Dear God, I'm responding to forum posts of someone who I suspect I have more than a few political differences with - not writing a manifesto.

I am a social liberal with economic beliefs that support more of a free market. Vote Democrat about 99% of the time.


Quote from: vdeane on February 19, 2025, 01:01:15 PMThe harm is how it affects the users of the site and makes their lives less convenient than before.  The fact that society doesn't seem to care is not my problem.

Are you seriously suggesting that making a customer's life less convenient is harmful? Harm means damange to someone's property, finances or well-being. Reddit moving from a free to fee model does none of those things. Customers would engage in a willing transaction.

LilianaUwU

Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 19, 2025, 09:19:11 AM
Quote from: vdeane on February 18, 2025, 10:49:54 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 18, 2025, 10:21:30 PMWell you brought up a ton of stuff in your paragraph above...but somehow forgot to include "can't charge for something that once was free." lol.

I take it that logic really isn't a strong suit of yours.
So I have to restate everything I previously said whenever I reply to you?  What the actual fuck?

Now you're just being deliberately obtuse.


I'M being obtuse!?!?!?

You think that's it's "morally repugnant" and it should be illegal for company to charge for something they used to give away free. That's an absolutely ridiculous opinion - there is no deception or fraud if Reddit decides to do this. So what is the harm exactly?
Stop bouncing on spez's dick already.
"Volcano with no fire... Not volcano... Just mountain."
—Mr. Thwomp

My pronouns are she/her. Also, I'm an admin on the AARoads Wiki.

hbelkins

People really care that much about Reddit?

Might be a good time for Usenet to make a comeback.  :bigass:
Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: LilianaUwU on February 19, 2025, 02:18:15 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 19, 2025, 09:19:11 AM
Quote from: vdeane on February 18, 2025, 10:49:54 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 18, 2025, 10:21:30 PMWell you brought up a ton of stuff in your paragraph above...but somehow forgot to include "can't charge for something that once was free." lol.

I take it that logic really isn't a strong suit of yours.
So I have to restate everything I previously said whenever I reply to you?  What the actual fuck?

Now you're just being deliberately obtuse.


I'M being obtuse!?!?!?

You think that's it's "morally repugnant" and it should be illegal for company to charge for something they used to give away free. That's an absolutely ridiculous opinion - there is no deception or fraud if Reddit decides to do this. So what is the harm exactly?
Stop bouncing on spez's dick already.

Yes, here I am, the radical, libertarian capitalist who believes that...<checks notes>...businesses should be able to charge for their products.  :-|  :-|

Max Rockatansky

I don't know guys, nearly half a billion dollars net loss usually requires a company the size of Reddit do something to turn things around.  It doesn't seem like the way they are doing things currently is sustainable. 

Rothman

HB's Usenet renaissance is the best idea he's ever had.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

thspfc

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 19, 2025, 02:57:35 PMI don't know guys, nearly half a billion dollars net loss usually requires a company the size of Reddit do something to turn things around.  It doesn't seem like the way they are doing things currently is sustainable. 
Ah, what was it? [checks notes] Stop bouncing on . . . [checks notes] spez {?} morally repugnant capitalist cock? Am I doing this right?

kphoger

Quote from: vdeane on February 19, 2025, 01:01:15 PMThe harm is how it affects the users of the site and makes their lives less convenient than before.  The fact that society doesn't seem to care is not my problem.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 19, 2025, 02:06:11 PMAre you seriously suggesting that making a customer's life less convenient is harmful? Harm means damange to someone's property, finances or well-being. Reddit moving from a free to fee model does none of those things. Customers would engage in a willing transaction.

Apparently, it is more harmful to the customer that he (a) be charged for something that once was free than (b) for the company to shut down entirely because it can no longer afford to continue providing something for free.

He Is Already Here! Let's Go, Flamingo!
Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances?
Deut 23:13
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: PKDIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.



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