Street Blade Signs Changing (All Uppercase > Mixed Case)?

[Alps]

I've also seen a smaller "g" used such that the tail fits on the sign, but it looks similarly ridiculous. Moral of the story: Fuck Clearview.

[Central Avenue]

But the sign that started this line of discussion wasn't even Clearview...

[Scott5114]

Fuck Clearview on principle then! Do we even need a reason?

[mjb2002]

the vertical positioning is wrong on at least one of those blades.

I've noticed that a lot on mixed-case signs...the designers shove the lettering upwards as a shortcut to make room for the descenders, rather than just making the sign a bit taller and centering the lettering properly.

Me too.  And it does not matter what typeface it is - FHWA, Arial, Clearview or whatever - they are still making the blades too small.  If designers are gonna use 6 inch lettering for Street Name signs, then the blanks that they order need to be 10 inches in height for standard blades, and at least that for extruded blades.

And the extruded blades cannot be rounded.

[mjb2002]

I've also seen a smaller "g" used such that the tail fits on the sign, but it looks similarly ridiculous. Moral of the story: Fuck Clearview.

I saw plenty of Clearview Overhead Street Name signs in the DC metro area - it was atrocious.

Clearview should be restricted only to non-Street Name guide signs, since it requires the uppercase lettering on Street Name signs to be no less than 25 inches in order for the typeface to be effective with its 84% ratio.

[mjb2002]

I have babbled on and on for nearly four months. Now the first pic of Barnwell County's new signs:


Hopefully, Barnwell Co. Public Works will take advantage of this nice weather to replace all of the all uppercase signs countywide (the uppercase lettering is 3 inches on the all caps signs)!

[mgk920]

I've also seen a smaller "g" used such that the tail fits on the sign, but it looks similarly ridiculous. Moral of the story: Fuck Clearview.

I saw plenty of Clearview Overhead Street Name signs in the DC metro area - it was atrocious.

Clearview should be restricted only to non-Street Name guide signs, since it requires the uppercase lettering on Street Name signs to be no less than 25 inches in order for the typeface to be effective with its 84% ratio.

My home City of Appleton, WI started using Clearview on its street name 'blade' signs earlier this year, too....





Mike

[burgess87]

Saw this as part of a recent re-construction project in Medina, NY:

[mjb2002]

Saw this as part of a recent re-construction project in Medina, NY:

The lettering must be at least 10 inches on those signs...look at how large they are!

[Central Avenue]

Pataskala, Ohio's started using this style for their new blades:





I find them quite well-done, personally, but I can't help but be disappointed at what they're gradually replacing.

[mcdonaat]

Baton Rouge has been using Clearview for the city streets. It's nice to see since the smaller signs are easier to read at night, in my personal opinion.

[Brian556]

These signs look lke a throwback to the ones Denton, Texas used in the 70's. Lewisville also used this style in the 70's, only theirs were blue. Denton went to all-caps after that, and just switched to mixed-case clearview in the last year.

It's nice to see since the smaller signs are easier to read at night, in my personal opinion

I agree. Having 6-inch high blades on major streets was rediculous and non-functional.

[mjb2002]

Baton Rouge has been using Clearview for the city streets. It's nice to see since the smaller signs are easier to read at night, in my personal opinion.

All of the all uppercase Street Name signs near me are three inches in height - and they are still non-legible, even with retroreflectivity. The new mixed case signs, which only started going up in the last four months - one of which is seven posts up (or back, if you prefer) - are easier to read at night and when it is cloudy or rainy.

And I agree that it is ridiculous to have 6 inch lettering on all signs without regard to speed limit. Some streets should use smaller signs in the downtown areas (25 mph or lower), while even larger signs should be used for faster highways (50 mph or higher).

But, then again, agencies near me are streamlining and are making one sign letter height for all Street Name signs without regard to speed limits. It puzzles me sometimes.

[vdeane]

Other signs don't scale to speed limit changes, why should street blades?  Besides, in a downtown setting there's more chances for the sign to be obstructed by something.

[Scott5114]

On higher speed roads, maybe 50 MPH and up, you should really be using LGS signs in advance of the intersections. (You know, "Division St./NEXT SIGNAL".) If you have too many intersections to do this, perhaps you should rethink it being posted that high.

[agentsteel53]

Other signs don't scale to speed limit changes, why should street blades? 

sure they do.  freeway route markers are 36" height, while non-freeway are 24".

[vdeane]

I'm pretty sure I've NEVER seen a freeway/non-freeway size difference in route markers before (at least in NY).  Is that a west coast thing?

[Scott5114]

Oklahoma does it as well. Hell, it might even be in the MUTCD.

[Brian556]

Other signs don't scale to speed limit changes, why should street blades?

Yes, they do. Warning and Regulatory signs on freeways are 48x48 or 48x60, for example.

[mjb2002]

Here are the official letter heights for street name signs.



And then there is this for historic neighborhoods with speed limits of 20 mph or lower, just added on June 12:

On lower speed roadways, historic street name signs within locally identified historic districts that are consistent with the criteria contained in 36 CFR 60.4 for such structures and districts may be used without complying with the provisions of Paragraphs 3, 4, 6, 9, 12 through 14, and 18 through 20 of this section.

[MDOTFanFB]

Taylor, MI just started doing this for their new street signs:



And for comparison, here's the sign it replaced (note, this is an old SD image from 2007, so it may not be readable):

http://goo.gl/maps/swB02

[DaBigE]

I'm pretty sure I've NEVER seen a freeway/non-freeway size difference in route markers before (at least in NY).  Is that a west coast thing?

Wisconsin does it as well. Standard route shields are 24x24 whereas multilane roadways with a posted speed of 45 or greater use a 36x36. Construction contractors usually "forget" about this (or ignore it because they don't have the sign in their inventory) when posting detour routes along freeways, and instead post the smaller signs.

[agentsteel53]

Oklahoma does it as well. Hell, it might even be in the MUTCD.

it is.  it has been in there as long ago as the 1957 interstate manual, which was considered to be an addition to the 1954 revision of the 1948 MUTCD, and then incorporated with some changes formally into the 1961 MUTCD.

[roadfro]

^ It's not necessarily a strictly freeway/non-freeway distinction that leads to sign size differences, but rather a speed-related threshold at which larger signs are recommended or required.

[NE2]

It is a freeway-expressway/non-freeway-expressway distinction, though of course larger shields can be used on normal surface roads.
http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part2/part2a.htm#section2A11
http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part2/part2e.htm#section2E14