Why don't European highway systems use shields a kin North American systems?

[firefly]

Keep in mind that it's not really a big deal that you're following six road numbers, as you're going to be on each one of them for several hours. From Tucson to the I-20 turnoff is a six hour drive, then it's six more hours to Dallas, and when you reach I-40 you'll be in an entirely different state. Chances are slim you're going to do Tucson to I-20 to I-30 in one day, so you don't even really have to worry about "remembering" all of the numbers, since you'll be sleeping in between them, and most travelers would need to refresh their itinerary in the morning before setting off anyway.

That doesn't make a difference really. An overnight stay is refreshing whether one navigates one way or the other.

This is all only tangental to the OP, though.  European highways are numbered.  The question was why they don't use US-type shields for those numbers, not whether it's 'better' to navigate by control cities or route numbers, or whether it's 'better' or not to use cardinal directions–which has already been discussed at length in other threads.

Therein, however, lies the answer to the original question. If one doesn't navigate by road numbers one doesn't display these in opulent badges but rather in modest frames.

[Scott5114]

Keep in mind that it's not really a big deal that you're following six road numbers, as you're going to be on each one of them for several hours. From Tucson to the I-20 turnoff is a six hour drive, then it's six more hours to Dallas, and when you reach I-40 you'll be in an entirely different state. Chances are slim you're going to do Tucson to I-20 to I-30 in one day, so you don't even really have to worry about "remembering" all of the numbers, since you'll be sleeping in between them, and most travelers would need to refresh their itinerary in the morning before setting off anyway.

That doesn't make a difference really. An overnight stay is refreshing whether one navigates one way or the other.

How does it not make a difference? You don't really have to remember "I-10 to I-20 to I-30 to I-40 to..." because you're only going to do "I-10 to I-20" one day. There's no point bothering to remember the turns you're going to make in Little Rock and Nashville when you are not going to get past West Texas on the first day. You just have to remember "Follow I-10 east to I-20 east, follow I-20 east until bedtime."

[kphoger]

Keep in mind that it's not really a big deal that you're following six road numbers, as you're going to be on each one of them for several hours. From Tucson to the I-20 turnoff is a six hour drive, then it's six more hours to Dallas, and when you reach I-40 you'll be in an entirely different state. Chances are slim you're going to do Tucson to I-20 to I-30 in one day, so you don't even really have to worry about "remembering" all of the numbers, since you'll be sleeping in between them, and most travelers would need to refresh their itinerary in the morning before setting off anyway.

That doesn't make a difference really. An overnight stay is refreshing whether one navigates one way or the other.

How does it not make a difference? You don't really have to remember "I-10 to I-20 to I-30 to I-40 to..." because you're only going to do "I-10 to I-20" one day. There's no point bothering to remember the turns you're going to make in Little Rock and Nashville when you are not going to get past West Texas on the first day. You just have to remember "Follow I-10 east to I-20 east, follow I-20 east until bedtime."

...in which case you wouldn't really need to remember the 'east' parts at all...which would make it essentially the same as following the European system of signage.

[mgk920]

Don't forget that in some places in Europe, the highways were not numbered until fairly recently.  When did the Germans (West) first add route numbers to their autobahn network?

Mike

[Chris]

I can't name any European country which has introduced road numbers less than at least 25 years ago. Road numbers are prominently signed in virtually all countries.

Germany introduced their current Autobahn numbering system in 1975, but there were numbers before that.

[agentsteel53]

I can't name any European country which has introduced road numbers less than at least 25 years ago. Road numbers are prominently signed in virtually all countries.

Germany introduced their current Autobahn numbering system in 1975, but there were numbers before that.

I'd love to see some route number signs from places like Albania and the USSR.

[Chris]

Route numbers are fairly commonly signposted in Albania.

[Brandon]

^^ That last one is good for the overkill in sign use thread.  One bgs with two down arrows would've been just as effective, and possibly more efficient.

[Chris]

Albania decided to copy the Italian signage, which is probably the worst system in Europe.

[NE2]

Don't forget that in some places in Europe, the highways were not numbered until fairly recently.

In the case of France, "recently" means Napoleon.

[agentsteel53]

Route numbers are fairly commonly signposted in Albania.

I had been inquiring about ~1975.  anyone got photos from that time?  really, any European country would be interesting, but especially the Eastern Bloc.

[cpzilliacus]

Route numbers are fairly commonly signposted in Albania.

I had been inquiring about ~1975.  anyone got photos from that time?  really, any European country would be interesting, but especially the Eastern Bloc.

Here's one of Sweden's Essingeleden motorway (E4/E20 today) in 1967, on the day that Sweden switched from driving on the left to driving on the right.



EDIT:  This was actually taken a day or two before the switchover, since all traffic is operating in on the left in [what was to become] the southbound lanes of the motorway once the switch to the right was accomplished.

As an aside, this is (today) the busiest motorway in Sweden, with six through lanes running about 160,000 AADT.

Regarding the buses - those buses are painted in the livery that SS (the municipal transit agency for Stockholm) used at the time.  SS became the regional SL not long after the change to right-hand running.  The bus that's a little closer and to the left of the camera is a German Büssing Konsul, the one further back is a Scania licensed copy of a U.S. Mack bus.  Most of these were modified for right-hand operation and ran for many  years after 1967.

[agentsteel53]

cool!  what's with the hexagonal "H" signs everyone's holding?

[NE2]

Here's one of Sweden's Essingeleden motorway (E4/E20 today) in 1967, on the day that Sweden switched from driving on the left to driving on the right.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Essingeleden_1967_Dagen_H.jpg

I see no route signs there. Am I missing something?


If I'm interpreting it correctly, the first sign on http://panotheque.free.fr/Disparition/RN51.html was patched in 1871.

cool!  what's with the hexagonal "H" signs everyone's holding?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagen_H

[Chris]

I had been inquiring about ~1975.  anyone got photos from that time?  really, any European country would be interesting, but especially the Eastern Bloc.

Albania pretty much had no roads prior to the 1990s.

The Eastern Bloc had a decent road system, most communist countries built their first freeway in the 1970s.

Here's a 1980s photo from Poland. It was taken near Szczecin, at current A6. I think the bottom road number is DK6. E14 is an outdated number (even at that time). Interestingly they signed foreign cities, including London!

[agentsteel53]

Albania pretty much had no roads prior to the 1990s.

dang! 

The Eastern Bloc had a decent road system, most communist countries built their first freeway in the 1970s.

Hungary was 1978, IIRC. 

how much of the Eastern Bloc segments of Reichsautobahns were preserved?  I know the Berlinka was allowed to fall into disuse, and East Germany's segments were pretty poorly maintained.

Here's a 1980s photo from Poland. It was taken near Szczecin, at current A6. I think the bottom road number is DK6. E14 is an outdated number (even at that time). Interestingly they signed foreign cities, including London!

awesome photo.  what was the planned route to Copenhagen and London?  did both include a ferry, or just one?

[Chris]

how much of the Eastern Bloc segments of Reichsautobahns were preserved?  I know the Berlinka was allowed to fall into disuse, and East Germany's segments were pretty poorly maintained.

Very few Reichsautobahnen are still in original condition. The old Reichsautobahn from Berlin to Wrocław has been mostly upgraded, though it is still lacking shoulders. The eastbound carriageway of DK18 between the German border and A18 is still in very poor condition with concrete slabs spaced apart an inch or two.

Most of the Berlinka has been renovated. The Polish part was reopened in 2006 as a super two, the Russian part has also been renovated, so that it acts as their new international link to Kaliningrad. However, I believe there is still a destroyed bridge near Kaliningrad which has been in that condition since 1945.

Some Reichsautobahns currently in Germany were renovated rather recently, I remember a trip in 2000 across A13 south of Berlin which was in disastrous condition. It has been renovated since. They are currently renovating the last parts of A11 north of Berlin, which is the last Reichsautobahn still in original (or at least GDR) condition. There are still quite some Reichsautobahnen in other parts of Germany (such as southern Germany) but they have at least been repaved and are usually in good condition apart from some hairy exit designs and lack of shoulders.

[agentsteel53]

Poland route 18 at the Germany border still has a bunch of 1940s elements.

https://www.aaroads.com/blog/2012/06/07/the-last-reichsautobahn/

[cpzilliacus]

cool!  what's with the hexagonal "H" signs everyone's holding?

Note that the "H" leans to the right.  Right in the Swedish language is höger, and that was the symbol used to remind everyone of the change to right-hand traffic on 1967-09-03 at 0500 CET.

The image below was also used to remind people of the changeover:

[agentsteel53]

gotcha.  I am guessing that is Sept 3, not Mar 9? 

[J N Winkler]

Yup.  1967-09-03, not 1967-03-09.  YouTube has footage from a changeover ceremony at the Slussen cloverleaf in Stockholm.

[firefly]

I can't name any European country which has introduced road numbers less than at least 25 years ago. Road numbers are prominently signed in virtually all countries.

Germany introduced their current Autobahn numbering system in 1975, but there were numbers before that.

This is just partly right. Only West Germany started signposting motorway numbers in 1975. For obvious reasons these motorway number did not arrive in East Germany before 1991.

Czechoslovakia signed just E-route as well. And I could imagine that Poland didn't signpost proper numbers for their few stretches of motorway until the 1990s too. So there were plenty of motorways with no signed numbers 25 years ago.

[agentsteel53]

Hungary had the M-numbers for their motorways, and unprefixed numbers for their other highways, as long as I can consciously remember.  (1982?  83?)

here's a photo we have of a German route shield from the 1940s.



I'm assuming it is a route shield, and not a kilometer marker, because it is repeated on the next post.

[kphoger]

Right in the Swedish language is höger

He he.  He he.  In Sweden, Hoger is always right.  He he.  He he.   

[cpzilliacus]

gotcha.  I am guessing that is Sept 3, not Mar 9? 

Ayup.  Sweden puts the day before the month.