Winter and/or calendars and/or kphoger's and/or Rothman's daddies

[Roadgeekteen]

I think dst discussion should be allowed here change my mind

[kphoger]

I think dst discussion should be allowed here change my mind

I kind of think you're more likely to change someone's mind about religion or politics than about DST.

[JayhawkCO]

This is something I've been thinking about lately.

For some reason, people seem to expect the weather to be warmer in March than it was in February, and then we're all surprised—every single time—when it snows in March.  There's just something about the calendar page flipping over, and then we just forget what we learned the previous year.  Every year.

March is our snowiest month. April gets just about as much snow as December or January.

[kphoger]

April gets just about as much snow as December or January.

Yep.  I think it was on April 24 that my wife and I flew out on our honeymoon.  We had a transfer at DIA, and it was sleeting badly enough that they had to de-ice the wings before take-off.

[JayhawkCO]

April gets just about as much snow as December or January.

Yep.  I think it was on April 24 that my wife and I flew out on our honeymoon.  We had a transfer at DIA, and it was sleeting badly enough that they had to de-ice the wings before take-off.

And to boot, our March/April snow is the sloppy stuff that is harder to shovel. Most of the snow in January and earlier, I don't even need to shovel. I can just use a pushbroom to clear the driveway.

[NWI_Irish96]

Officially seasons are defined as the period from one solstice/equinox to the next, but if you think about it, those days should be the MIDDLE of their seasons, not the beginning. The longest 91 days of the year are centered around June 20, not beginning with it.

Someone will probably correct me if I got my math wrong, but this would mean that, by your reckoning:

03 FEB 2026 — begin Spring
05 MAY 2026 — begin Summer
06 AUG 2026 — begin Autumn
06 NOV 2026 — begin Winter

If you're going by daylight, yes, the darkest days are from Nov 6-Feb 2.

Obviously the temperatures lag a bit, as early November is generally warmer than early February.

[kphoger]

Officially seasons are defined as the period from one solstice/equinox to the next, but if you think about it, those days should be the MIDDLE of their seasons, not the beginning. The longest 91 days of the year are centered around June 20, not beginning with it.

Someone will probably correct me if I got my math wrong, but this would mean that, by your reckoning:

03 FEB 2026 — begin Spring
05 MAY 2026 — begin Summer
06 AUG 2026 — begin Autumn
06 NOV 2026 — begin Winter

If you're going by daylight, yes, the darkest days are from Nov 6-Feb 2.

Obviously the temperatures lag a bit, as early November is generally warmer than early February.

Sorry, but I just can't get onboard with saying Spring starts on February 3, nor that Autumn starts on August 6.

[NWI_Irish96]

Officially seasons are defined as the period from one solstice/equinox to the next, but if you think about it, those days should be the MIDDLE of their seasons, not the beginning. The longest 91 days of the year are centered around June 20, not beginning with it.

Someone will probably correct me if I got my math wrong, but this would mean that, by your reckoning:

03 FEB 2026 — begin Spring
05 MAY 2026 — begin Summer
06 AUG 2026 — begin Autumn
06 NOV 2026 — begin Winter

If you're going by daylight, yes, the darkest days are from Nov 6-Feb 2.

Obviously the temperatures lag a bit, as early November is generally warmer than early February.

Sorry, but I just can't get onboard with saying Spring starts on February 3, nor that Autumn starts on August 6.

Spring starting on March 20 doesn't make sense either. December 19 is much darker and colder than March 19.

[kphoger]

Spring starting on March 20 doesn't make sense either. December 19 is much darker and colder than March 19.

Of course it is.  It's the last day before Winter, not the last day before Spring.  What doesn't make sense about that?

[NWI_Irish96]

Spring starting on March 20 doesn't make sense either. December 19 is much darker and colder than March 19.

Of course it is.  It's the last day before Winter, not the last day before Spring.  What doesn't make sense about that?

But if December 19 is darker and colder, it should be part of winter, not before it. Winter should include either the darkest or coldest days.

[kphoger]

Winter should include either the darkest or coldest days.

OK, so I plotted this out for Wichita.

The coldest average daily high temp is 40°F, with December 31 being in the center of that span.  So December 31 would be the midpoint of Winter.

The hottest average daily high temp is 92°F, with July 21–22 being in the center of that span.  So July 21–22 would be the midpoint of Summer.

Right away, you can see that the curve is lopsided:  202 days from the coldest day to the hottest day, but 163 days from the hottest to the coldest.  But we'll go with it.

Actually, if you're looking for some semblance of weather symmetry, then it works pretty well to do this:

SPRING
March 1 – May 31

SUMMER
June 1 – August 31
80°F = avg. high temp, starting
87°F = avg. high temp, ending
hottest days of the year = 51 & 52, out of 92 total

AUTUMN
September 1 – November 30

WINTER
December 1 – February 28
48°F = avg. high temp, starting
52°F = avg. high temp, ending
coldest day of the year = 31, out of 90 total

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I think dst discussion should be allowed here change my mind

Are you really RGT or did some banned member hack your account?

[NWI_Irish96]

Winter should include either the darkest or coldest days.

OK, so I plotted this out for Wichita.

The coldest average daily high temp is 40°F, with December 31 being in the center of that span.  So December 31 would be the midpoint of Winter.

The hottest average daily high temp is 92°F, with July 21–22 being in the center of that span.  So July 21–22 would be the midpoint of Summer.

Right away, you can see that the curve is lopsided:  202 days from the coldest day to the hottest day, but 163 days from the hottest to the coldest.  But we'll go with it.

Actually, if you're looking for some semblance of weather symmetry, then it works pretty well to do this:

SPRING
March 1 – May 31

SUMMER
June 1 – August 31
80°F = avg. high temp, starting
87°F = avg. high temp, ending
hottest days of the year = 51 & 52, out of 92 total

AUTUMN
September 1 – November 30

WINTER
December 1 – February 28
48°F = avg. high temp, starting
52°F = avg. high temp, ending
coldest day of the year = 31, out of 90 total

That makes much more sense.

[freebrickproductions]

So who all's expecting a white Christmas this year?

[Max Rockatansky]

So who all's expecting a white Christmas this year?

Depends on the elevation.  I only found patches of snow at 8,800 feet above sea level yesterday.

[formulanone]

I think dst discussion should be allowed here change my mind

Are you really RGT or did some banned member hack your account?

We should totally let the same people who get all puckered up about important stuff like "Limon as a control city" get decide what time our hometown should respect and obey.

[Roadgeekteen]

I think dst discussion should be allowed here change my mind

Are you really RGT or did some banned member hack your account?

We should totally let the same people who get all puckered up about important stuff like "Limon as a control city" get decide what time our hometown should respect and obey.

Lol it's really not that deep it's more a meme than anything.

I think dst discussion should be allowed here change my mind

Are you really RGT or did some banned member hack your account?

My stance on when threads should be locked has always been the same. In my opinion, they should only be locked if they get uncivil or break forum rules, not if the discussion is just boring. Same reason why I don't think Alanland should be locked.

[Scott5114]

Daylight Savings?

[Scott5114]

And then people seem to expect the weather to be cooler in October than it was in September, and then we're all surprised—every single time—when temps are still bumping up against 90°F.  Again, the calendar page flips over, and we forget what we learned.  Every year.

This depends on where you are. October is considered part of summer in Las Vegas, such that everyone is surprised when a cold front invariably comes in for Halloween and/or Nevada Day and everyone is uncomfortably cold in their Halloween and/or Nevada Day costume.

[froggie]

So who all's expecting a white Christmas this year?

In the 13 years we've lived in Narina, we've had a total of two that weren't.

[Scott5114]

So who all's expecting a white Christmas this year?

lol

[GaryV]

Spring only lasts for about 4 hours some random afternoon in late April or early May. Prior to that it's winter; the next day it's summer.

[kphoger]

That makes much more sense.

It still leaves two-thirds of this coming winter in 2026, so we must still wonder why Rothman assumed 2025 instead...

[kphoger]

So who all's expecting a white Christmas this year?

Most years here, we do not have a white Christmas, and we're pleasantly surprised whenever we do.  Most years, we don't get much snow, if any, before the turn of the new year.  It's pretty common to have no snow at all in December and then more than one snowfall in January.

[NWI_Irish96]

That makes much more sense.

It still leaves two-thirds of this coming winter in 2026, so we must still wonder why Rothman assumed 2025 instead...

I find it much better for my mental health not to wonder about Rothman.