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Key Bridge (Round Who Knows But Probably Not Last)

Started by Beltway, April 28, 2026, 06:15:15 PM

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Rothman

Quote from: Thing 342 on May 09, 2026, 09:44:47 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 28, 2026, 10:42:21 PMYou'd also be surprised by how quickly a couple of billion dollars can come together for a project with as much oompf behind it as this one.

Don't you worry:  They'll get another contractor and the project will go through this blip and keep chugging along.
To me, it seems that MDOT dumping Kiewit for Phase II was not expected and any subsequent contractor will need to make substantial revisions to the design to meet the state's cost expectations: https://www.thebanner.com/community/transportation/baltimore-key-bridge-rebuild-contractor-kiewit-TWC6UN46RBH7NDHUHDG5T2YMX4/

The funding and cost problems are more political in nature than bureaucratic. If MDOT is trying to penny-pinch the project in order to meet the initial rosy cost estimates made by politicians then they're only doing a disservice to the public.



You need to think a step further when it comes to this kind of thing.  DOTs and other project sponsors routinely relet projects in the name of being responsible for cost.

The dirty not-so-secret is that this strategy isn't very reliable towards that end and can actually raise costs when all's said and done.

It's essentially what's happening here.  In the end, whatever billions will be found due to the immense impetus behind the replacement.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.


Beltway

Quote from: Thing 342 on May 09, 2026, 09:44:47 PMTo me, it seems that MDOT dumping Kiewit for Phase II was not expected and any subsequent contractor will need to make substantial revisions to the design to meet the state's cost expectations: https://www.thebanner.com/community/transportation/baltimore-key-bridge-rebuild-contractor-kiewit-TWC6UN46RBH7NDHUHDG5T2YMX4/
The funding and cost problems are more political in nature than bureaucratic. If MDOT is trying to penny-pinch the project in order to meet the initial rosy cost estimates made by politicians then they're only doing a disservice to the public.
The Key Bridge rebuild is effectively paused between Phase 1 and Phase 2 because the Progressive Design‑Build process broke down at the Guaranteed Maximum Price stage. Kiewit's Phase 2 GMP came in far above the state's target range, FHWA never concurred with any final number, and under PDB rules a failed GMP triggers an off‑ramp. MDTA exercised that off‑ramp, which removes Kiewit from Phase 2 and leaves the project without a construction contractor.

The "70% design" produced so far is not a buildable package; it's only a pricing milestone, so any new contractor will have to re‑baseline scope, risk, and cost before a new GMP can even be attempted. Until that happens, FHWA cannot obligate major federal funds, and no structural construction can begin. Only preparatory work -- geotechnical, environmental, debris removal, channel stabilization -- is continuing.

The project is "radioactive" in the contractual sense: misaligned risk, frozen design, political cost ceilings, and a failed GMP negotiation make Phase 2 unattractive to bid. Until MDTA restructures the procurement and resets the risk model, the schedule is blown and the previously advertised 2030 opening is no longer realistic.

ER is no longer in effect because the emergency phase has ended, not because permanent reconstruction has begun. FHWA's Emergency Relief authority covers immediate response, debris removal, temporary access, and short‑term protective work. Once the site is stabilized and the project transitions from emergency operations into permanent restoration planning, ER eligibility ends automatically. That cutoff has already occurred. The project is now in the federal‑aid phase even though no permanent construction contract exists, which means the rebuild cannot use 100%‑federal ER funding going forward and must follow normal cost‑share rules.

Given the scale of the cost overrun and the collapse of the GMP negotiation, there is no credible basis for assuming that a second procurement will yield a materially lower price. Any qualified contractor will face the same geotechnical uncertainties, navigational‑risk exposure, schedule compression, and federal compliance requirements that drove Kiewit's number upward. Without a fundamental reset of scope and risk allocation, the state is unlikely to receive a bid that fits within its funding envelope. At this point, the only technically defensible path is a return to a full NEPA EIS with a genuine alternatives analysis -- including all feasible structural, alignment, and operational options. Until that occurs, the replacement project as currently conceived is effectively non‑viable.

We are looking at 2037 to 2040 before a new crossing may be in place.

MDTA will never publicly acknowledge that the GMP collapse reflects a fundamental misalignment between scope, risk, and cost; that the 70% design is not buildable; that the procurement is now structurally unattractive to Tier‑1 contractors; that ER funding has already rolled off; that the schedule is no longer tethered to the advertised 2030 date; or that a full NEPA reset is the only technically defensible path. But every one of those points is procedurally true. Agencies don't admit these things because doing so would concede that the original cost envelope was unrealistic, trigger political blowback, undermine confidence in the procurement, complicate federal coordination, and force a public acknowledgment that the timeline has slipped a decade.

Not to toot my own horn, but I've been right about practically everything I've said on this project. That isn't luck -- it's simply what happens when you follow the procurement mechanics, the federal‑aid rules, and the engineering constraints instead of the press releases. The underlying structure has been visible for a long time.
Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

Rothman

#27
As someone who has seen the ER process unfold on a number of projects, Beltway's representation of it is inaccurate.  ER funds can pay for construction.

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/programadmin/erelief.cfm

And, so far, he is the only one talking about reopening NEPA.  I still highly doubt the EIS will be redone.  They're just going to find a way to rebuild the bridge.


(personal opinion emphasized)
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Beltway

Quote from: Rothman on May 09, 2026, 11:26:32 PMAs someone who has seen the ER process unfold on a number of projects, Beltway's representation of it is inaccurate.  ER funds can pay for construction.
https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/programadmin/erelief.cfm
And, so far, he is the only one talking about reopening NEPA.  I still highly doubt the EIS will be redone.  They're just going to find a way to rebuild the bridge.
(personal opinion emphasized)
The basic problem here is that you keep trying to compare this project to anything that has ever happened before, at least in the history of U.S. federal aid highway programs which goes back to 1916.

We're not dealing with a routine relet here; we're in a structurally unprecedented situation where the Progressive Design‑Build process has collapsed at the GMP stage, the design is frozen at a non‑buildable 70% milestone, there is no contractor for permanent work, FHWA has not concurred with any cost model, ER funding has already rolled off, and no federal dollars can be obligated for construction. The procurement is effectively toxic and radioactive to Tier‑1 firms under the current risk structure, the advertised schedule is no longer viable, and the only technically defensible path is a full NEPA reset with a real alternatives analysis -- which pushes delivery into the late 2030s or early 2040s. When you add the sheer physical scale of the replacement span to that mix, the risk, cost, and schedule exposure only increase.

Taken together, this is an epic, catastrophic, and unprecedented collapse of a major U.S. infrastructure project -- not a "blip," but a systemic failure of scope, risk allocation, and cost realism with no modern analogue in bridge or highway practice.
Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

Rothman

Quote from: Beltway on May 09, 2026, 11:43:12 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 09, 2026, 11:26:32 PMAs someone who has seen the ER process unfold on a number of projects, Beltway's representation of it is inaccurate.  ER funds can pay for construction.
https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/programadmin/erelief.cfm
And, so far, he is the only one talking about reopening NEPA.  I still highly doubt the EIS will be redone.  They're just going to find a way to rebuild the bridge.
(personal opinion emphasized)
The basic problem here is that you keep trying to compare this project to anything that has ever happened before, at least in the history of U.S. federal aid highway programs which goes back to 1916.

We're not dealing with a routine relet here; we're in a structurally unprecedented situation where the Progressive Design‑Build process has collapsed at the GMP stage, the design is frozen at a non‑buildable 70% milestone, there is no contractor for permanent work, FHWA has not concurred with any cost model, ER funding has already rolled off, and no federal dollars can be obligated for construction. The procurement is effectively toxic and radioactive to Tier‑1 firms under the current risk structure, the advertised schedule is no longer viable, and the only technically defensible path is a full NEPA reset with a real alternatives analysis -- which pushes delivery into the late 2030s or early 2040s. When you add the sheer physical scale of the replacement span to that mix, the risk, cost, and schedule exposure only increase.

Taken together, this is an epic, catastrophic, and unprecedented collapse of a major U.S. infrastructure project -- not a "blip," but a systemic failure of scope, risk allocation, and cost realism with no modern analogue in bridge or highway practice.

I haven't seen a source that has said ER funding has "rolled off."  I've seen plenty that Maryland is having ongoing discussions with FHWA on funding.

At least this press release from MDTA just says that ER funding was intentionally placed towards "immediate clean up and recovery": https://mdta.maryland.gov/blog-category/mdta-news-releases/maryland-transportation-authority-releases-updated-estimates-cost

That would mean that ER funds were never meant for construction in this instance and were just used for their intended purpose and therefore that's all moot for construction funding.

There's no need for a NEPA reset as I'd bet any bridge replacement would fall under the already approved EIS.  Projects routinely get design approval for a broader scope only to see such scopes cut back or altered.  Just requires a NEPA re-evaluation rather than a full NEPA reset.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Beltway

#30
Quote from: Rothman on May 09, 2026, 11:51:04 PMI haven't seen a source that has said ER funding has "rolled off."  I've seen plenty that Maryland is having ongoing discussions with FHWA on funding.
At least this press release from MDTA just says that ER funding was intentionally placed towards "immediate clean up and recovery": https://mdta.maryland.gov/blog-category/mdta-news-releases/maryland-transportation-authority-releases-updated-estimates-cost
That would mean that ER funds were never meant for construction in this instance and were just used for their intended purpose and therefore that's all moot for construction funding.
There's no need for a NEPA reset as I'd bet any bridge replacement would fall under the already approved EIS.  Projects routinely get design approval for a broader scope only to see such scopes cut back or altered.  Just requires a NEPA re-evaluation rather than a full NEPA reset.
The ER point isn't complicated. ER eligibility ends when the site transitions from emergency operations into permanent restoration planning. That cutoff has already occurred. It has been 26 months. Maryland used ER exactly as intended -- debris removal, temporary access, channel stabilization -- and once the project moved into permanent replacement planning, ER stopped being available for construction. That's not speculation; it's how the program works. Ongoing "discussions" don't change the statutory boundary.

On NEPA, the issue isn't whether someone "talks about reopening it." The issue is that a Progressive Design‑Build procurement has collapsed at the GMP stage, the design is frozen at a non‑buildable 70% milestone, there is no contractor, FHWA has not concurred with any cost model, and no federal dollars can be obligated for construction. When the design basis evaporates and the procurement fails, the existing NEPA document no longer matches any buildable alternative. At that point, a re‑evaluation is not sufficient; the process requires a full NEPA reset with a real alternatives analysis.

This isn't a routine scope tweak. It's a structural failure of the procurement, the risk model, and the design foundation. There is no precedent in the federal‑aid highway era for treating a collapsed PDB/GMP megaproject as if it can simply continue under an old EIS.

And this isn't happening in a vacuum. The $8-$9 billion figures are now being discussed openly by Maryland elected officials, newspapers, and across social media, and the reaction is shifting. More and more people are saying that the federal government should not be responsible for that level of cost exposure, and some are already raising the possibility of a tunnel. Once the public and political conversation moves into that territory, the idea that this can be treated as a routine relet under an old EIS (actually CATEX) becomes even less defensible.
Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

Rothman

Quote from: Beltway on May 10, 2026, 08:48:41 AM
Quote from: Rothman on May 09, 2026, 11:51:04 PMI haven't seen a source that has said ER funding has "rolled off."  I've seen plenty that Maryland is having ongoing discussions with FHWA on funding.
At least this press release from MDTA just says that ER funding was intentionally placed towards "immediate clean up and recovery": https://mdta.maryland.gov/blog-category/mdta-news-releases/maryland-transportation-authority-releases-updated-estimates-cost
That would mean that ER funds were never meant for construction in this instance and were just used for their intended purpose and therefore that's all moot for construction funding.
There's no need for a NEPA reset as I'd bet any bridge replacement would fall under the already approved EIS.  Projects routinely get design approval for a broader scope only to see such scopes cut back or altered.  Just requires a NEPA re-evaluation rather than a full NEPA reset.
The ER point isn't complicated. ER eligibility ends when the site transitions from emergency operations into permanent restoration planning. That cutoff has already occurred. It has been 26 months. Maryland used ER exactly as intended -- debris removal, temporary access, channel stabilization -- and once the project moved into permanent replacement planning, ER stopped being available for construction. That's not speculation; it's how the program works. Ongoing "discussions" don't change the statutory boundary.

On NEPA, the issue isn't whether someone "talks about reopening it." The issue is that a Progressive Design‑Build procurement has collapsed at the GMP stage, the design is frozen at a non‑buildable 70% milestone, there is no contractor, FHWA has not concurred with any cost model, and no federal dollars can be obligated for construction. When the design basis evaporates and the procurement fails, the existing NEPA document no longer matches any buildable alternative. At that point, a re‑evaluation is not sufficient; the process requires a full NEPA reset with a real alternatives analysis.

This isn't a routine scope tweak. It's a structural failure of the procurement, the risk model, and the design foundation. There is no precedent in the federal‑aid highway era for treating a collapsed PDB/GMP megaproject as if it can simply continue under an old EIS.

And this isn't happening in a vacuum. The $8-$9 billion figures are now being discussed openly by Maryland elected officials, newspapers, and across social media, and the reaction is shifting. More and more people are saying that the federal government should not be responsible for that level of cost exposure, and some are already raising the possibility of a tunnel. Once the public and political conversation moves into that territory, the idea that this can be treated as a routine relet under an old EIS (actually CATEX) becomes even less defensible.

Now you're intentionally posting misinformation by ignoring the FHWA source I provided on the ER program.  ER funds reconstruction in a whole lot of cases.  Maryland simply chose not to in this case, either through the amount available or through whatever discussions with FHWA.  Saying the lack of ER at this point affects contractor participation is incorrect given how ER was arranged on the project.

If anything, the categorical exclusion determination will just be taken as a given.  It's a bridge replacement in an already disturbed area, which is a very simple situation NEPA-wise.  The only action that will be required will be a standard NEPA reevaluation explaining any changes to design of the inevitable new bridge.  Maryland and FHWA will go back and forth on that a little bit and things'll move forward -- delayed, but will move forward.

The current re-eval process is fairly new, so it's understandable that you or others may be unfamiliar with it.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Thing 342

I have no insight into NEPA or ER eligibility, but my understanding is that since the Bridge is on the NHS the federal government is on the hook for at least 80% of expenses, with the ER classification determining if it is either 80%, 90% or 100% reimbursable.

Assuming that is the case, then the miscellaneous procedural hurdles Beltway is referencing mentioning are ultimately small potatoes when FHWA ultimately still needs to go to Congress to get the actual $5/8/10B in appropriations to fund the project. Given Congress's current ... issues (the previous bills filed on this matter have gone nowhere), this seems like it will be a problem going forward given the new Bridge's massively increasing costs.

NE2

Quote from: Beltway on May 09, 2026, 11:43:12 PMTaken together, this is an epic, catastrophic, and unprecedented collapse of a major U.S. infrastructure project -- not a "blip," but a systemic failure of scope, risk allocation, and cost realism with no modern analogue in bridge or highway practice.
6-9-5 I just blipped right on the beltway
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

Rothman

Quote from: Thing 342 on May 10, 2026, 10:22:06 AMI have no insight into NEPA or ER eligibility, but my understanding is that since the Bridge is on the NHS the federal government is on the hook for at least 80% of expenses, with the ER classification determining if it is either 80%, 90% or 100% reimbursable.

Assuming that is the case, then the miscellaneous procedural hurdles Beltway is referencing mentioning are ultimately small potatoes when FHWA ultimately still needs to go to Congress to get the actual $5/8/10B in appropriations to fund the project. Given Congress's current ... issues (the previous bills filed on this matter have gone nowhere), this seems like it will be a problem going forward given the new Bridge's massively increasing costs.

ER is a specific federal funding program separate from other federal fund sources.  As Beltway and I have pointed out, that funding has been used on preparation purposes.  It does not determine federal share of the entire funding mix on the project on its own. 

Federal-aid in general is eligible for at least 80% funding.  NHS designation simply broadens a facility's eligibility.  For instance, NHPP funding mostly has to be spent on the NHS...which is why those lobbying on the new bill are arguing to reduce NHPP for broader STBG funding (despite the fact that if your state sucks at maintaining bridges, NHPP can be used on any fed-aid eligible bridge as a "penalty.").

Specific congressional action most likely will not be needed to cover addditional costs...although the expiration of the current federal transportation bill might make things a little interesting.  There are various megaprojects around the country increasing in cost and you'd be surprised how much flexibility FHWA and States have when it comes to finding those billions on their own within already established funding sources, whether federal or state (keeping in mind federal funding is a reimbursement program (!)).
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Beltway

Quote from: Rothman on May 10, 2026, 09:12:44 AMNow you're intentionally posting misinformation by ignoring the FHWA source I provided on the ER program.  ER funds reconstruction in a whole lot of cases.  Maryland simply chose not to in this case, either through the amount available or through whatever discussions with FHWA.  Saying the lack of ER at this point affects contractor participation is incorrect given how ER was arranged on the project.
If anything, the categorical exclusion determination will just be taken as a given.  It's a bridge replacement in an already disturbed area, which is a very simple situation NEPA-wise.  The only action that will be required will be a standard NEPA reevaluation explaining any changes to design of the inevitable new bridge.  Maryland and FHWA will go back and forth on that a little bit and things'll move forward -- delayed, but will move forward.
The current re-eval process is fairly new, so it's understandable that you or others may be unfamiliar with it.
You're misreading the ER framework. ER can fund permanent restoration only when the replacement is a like‑for‑like facility with a buildable design and a stable scope. That is not the situation here. Once a project transitions from emergency operations into permanent replacement planning -- which happened more than two years ago -- ER eligibility for construction ends. That's statutory, not discretionary, and it doesn't hinge on how Maryland chose to allocate its initial ER tranche. The contractor‑participation issue isn't about ER at all. It's about the collapse of the Progressive Design‑Build procurement at the GMP stage, the frozen 70% design that cannot be built, the absence of a contractor, and FHWA's inability to concur in any cost model. Without a buildable alternative, no federal construction dollars -- ER or otherwise -- can be obligated.

On NEPA, a reevaluation only works when the underlying alternative remains valid. Here, the design basis evaporated with the failed procurement. A non‑buildable 70% concept with no contractor and no defensible risk model is not an "existing alternative" that can be reevaluated. At that point, the process requires a full NEPA reset with a real alternatives analysis. That's not unfamiliarity with the new reevaluation process -- it's simply how NEPA functions when the selected alternative no longer exists in any buildable form.

And the broader context matters. The $8–$9 billion cost range is now being discussed by Maryland elected officials, major newspapers, and across social media, and the reaction is shifting. More people are questioning whether the federal government should carry that exposure, and some are openly raising a tunnel. Once the public and political conversation moves into alternative‑facility territory, treating this as a routine reevaluation of a categorical exclusion becomes untenable.
Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

Beltway

Quote from: Rothman on May 10, 2026, 11:50:41 AM
Quote from: Thing 342 on May 10, 2026, 10:22:06 AMI have no insight into NEPA or ER eligibility, but my understanding is that since the Bridge is on the NHS the federal government is on the hook for at least 80% of expenses, with the ER classification determining if it is either 80%, 90% or 100% reimbursable.
Assuming that is the case, then the miscellaneous procedural hurdles Beltway is referencing mentioning are ultimately small potatoes when FHWA ultimately still needs to go to Congress to get the actual $5/8/10B in appropriations to fund the project. Given Congress's current ... issues (the previous bills filed on this matter have gone nowhere), this seems like it will be a problem going forward given the new Bridge's massively increasing costs.
ER is a specific federal funding program separate from other federal fund sources.  As Beltway and I have pointed out, that funding has been used on preparation purposes.  It does not determine federal share of the entire funding mix on the project on its own. 
Federal-aid in general is eligible for at least 80% funding.  NHS designation simply broadens a facility's eligibility.  For instance, NHPP funding mostly has to be spent on the NHS...which is why those lobbying on the new bill are arguing to reduce NHPP for broader STBG funding (despite the fact that if your state sucks at maintaining bridges, NHPP can be used on any fed-aid eligible bridge as a "penalty.").
Specific congressional action most likely will not be needed to cover addditional costs...although the expiration of the current federal transportation bill might make things a little interesting.  There are various megaprojects around the country increasing in cost and you'd be surprised how much flexibility FHWA and States have when it comes to finding those billions on their own within already established funding sources, whether federal or state (keeping in mind federal funding is a reimbursement program (!)).
The distinction you're drawing between ER and other federal‑aid programs is correct, but the conclusion you're drawing from it isn't. The 80% maximum federal share only applies after FHWA determines that the costs are eligible, the scope is buildable, the estimate is defensible, and the project can actually be obligated. None of that is true right now. A collapsed PDB procurement, a non‑buildable 70% design, no contractor, and no concurred cost model mean FHWA cannot obligate any construction dollars -- ER or otherwise.

And the idea that any agency is going to absorb an $8–$10 billion replacement for that crossing is a pipe dream. MDTA's toll‑revenue bond structure can't touch it -- their statutory cap is nearly maxed, their debt service already consumes most of their net revenues, and their remaining bonding headroom is measured in hundreds of millions, not billions. Even if they wanted to participate, they can't.

On the federal side, the 80% maximum share is not a guarantee and it operates off finite annual allocations. Maryland can't draw down multiple years of its entire federal‑aid program just to fund one structure. Without a specific congressional appropriation, there is no mechanism that delivers $8–$10 billion.

And even if the mechanics somehow allowed it, it would be fundamentally unfair to the rest of the country. No federal‑aid program is designed to let one state consume that much national capacity for a single crossing, especially when other states have their own structurally deficient bridges, freight corridors, and megaprojects competing for the same limited dollars.

And it's not as if this crossing carried 100,000 AADT on single routing. It was a modest‑volume facility by national standards, with multiple parallel routings available and no freight‑critical designation. Nothing in the federal‑aid program is designed to pour $8–$10 billion into a structure with that traffic profile when other states have Interstate bridges, freight corridors, and NHS chokepoints moving two to five times the volume competing for the same limited dollars.
Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

Rothman

Quote from: Beltway on May 10, 2026, 12:31:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 10, 2026, 09:12:44 AMNow you're intentionally posting misinformation by ignoring the FHWA source I provided on the ER program.  ER funds reconstruction in a whole lot of cases.  Maryland simply chose not to in this case, either through the amount available or through whatever discussions with FHWA.  Saying the lack of ER at this point affects contractor participation is incorrect given how ER was arranged on the project.
If anything, the categorical exclusion determination will just be taken as a given.  It's a bridge replacement in an already disturbed area, which is a very simple situation NEPA-wise.  The only action that will be required will be a standard NEPA reevaluation explaining any changes to design of the inevitable new bridge.  Maryland and FHWA will go back and forth on that a little bit and things'll move forward -- delayed, but will move forward.
The current re-eval process is fairly new, so it's understandable that you or others may be unfamiliar with it.
You're misreading the ER framework. ER can fund permanent restoration only when the replacement is a like‑for‑like facility with a buildable design and a stable scope. That is not the situation here. Once a project transitions from emergency operations into permanent replacement planning -- which happened more than two years ago -- ER eligibility for construction ends. That's statutory, not discretionary, and it doesn't hinge on how Maryland chose to allocate its initial ER tranche.  The contractor‑participation issue isn't about ER at all. It's about the collapse of the Progressive Design‑Build procurement at the GMP stage, the frozen 70% design that cannot be built, the absence of a contractor, and FHWA's inability to concur in any cost model. Without a buildable alternative, no federal construction dollars -- ER or otherwise -- can be obligated.


Your AI is showing in this response filled with contradiction, ignores Maryland's statement on how funding was structured on the project and shows you shifting your argument again through the thread.  At least we agree that construction can't proceed as of right now.

QuoteOn NEPA, a reevaluation only works when the underlying alternative remains valid. Here, the design basis evaporated with the failed procurement. A non‑buildable 70% concept with no contractor and no defensible risk model is not an "existing alternative" that can be reevaluated. At that point, the process requires a full NEPA reset with a real alternatives analysis. That's not unfamiliarity with the new reevaluation process -- it's simply how NEPA functions when the selected alternative no longer exists in any buildable form.

You still misunderstand NEPA; no, that is not how it works.  The environmental determination has been made based upon the work type.  The general alternative of a bridge replacement is still valid, despite the 70% concept being inevitably altered.  Once the new contractor figures out what bridge to build, the NEPA re-eval will cover anything needed as construction is authorized.  The categorical exclusion isn't going to go away in this case just because a new contractor is going to be brought on board and changes to the design will happen.  Changes are made to projects post NEPA determination all of the time and as long as the bridge doesn't end up on a drastically different alignment, all will be well in the end.

QuoteAnd the broader context matters. The $8–$9 billion cost range is now being discussed by Maryland elected officials, major newspapers, and across social media, and the reaction is shifting...

People and businesses still want a bridge built.  That's all that matters.  Leaving the status quo -- the gap -- is not going to happen.  I suppose, worst case, Maryland becomes so incompetent costs increase even more or they totally botch the oversight of the project and administration heads roll.  Still, someone'll replace them and pick up the pieces and get the project back on track. 

Quote from: Beltway on May 10, 2026, 01:01:58 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 10, 2026, 11:50:41 AM
Quote from: Thing 342 on May 10, 2026, 10:22:06 AMI have no insight into NEPA or ER eligibility, but my understanding is that since the Bridge is on the NHS the federal government is on the hook for at least 80% of expenses, with the ER classification determining if it is either 80%, 90% or 100% reimbursable.
Assuming that is the case, then the miscellaneous procedural hurdles Beltway is referencing mentioning are ultimately small potatoes when FHWA ultimately still needs to go to Congress to get the actual $5/8/10B in appropriations to fund the project. Given Congress's current ... issues (the previous bills filed on this matter have gone nowhere), this seems like it will be a problem going forward given the new Bridge's massively increasing costs.
ER is a specific federal funding program separate from other federal fund sources.  As Beltway and I have pointed out, that funding has been used on preparation purposes.  It does not determine federal share of the entire funding mix on the project on its own. 
Federal-aid in general is eligible for at least 80% funding.  NHS designation simply broadens a facility's eligibility.  For instance, NHPP funding mostly has to be spent on the NHS...which is why those lobbying on the new bill are arguing to reduce NHPP for broader STBG funding (despite the fact that if your state sucks at maintaining bridges, NHPP can be used on any fed-aid eligible bridge as a "penalty.").
Specific congressional action most likely will not be needed to cover addditional costs...although the expiration of the current federal transportation bill might make things a little interesting.  There are various megaprojects around the country increasing in cost and you'd be surprised how much flexibility FHWA and States have when it comes to finding those billions on their own within already established funding sources, whether federal or state (keeping in mind federal funding is a reimbursement program (!)).
(stuff you've said already about ER...whatever at this point)
You're now misunderstanding how federal authorization works and the triggers for such, but that's really not here nor there in the grand scheme of things.
QuoteAnd the idea that any agency is going to absorb an $8–$10 billion replacement for that crossing is a pipe dream. MDTA's toll‑revenue bond structure can't touch it -- their statutory cap is nearly maxed, their debt service already consumes most of their net revenues, and their remaining bonding headroom is measured in hundreds of millions, not billions. Even if they wanted to participate, they can't.
Assuming this is the only option to pull together the funding for the project is ignorant of a plethora of other options FHWA and Maryland can take.  It's also amazing what can happen behind the scenes between a State and the Feds when money is needed for megaprojects.
QuoteOn the federal side, the 80% maximum share is not a guarantee and it operates off finite annual allocations. Maryland can't draw down multiple years of its entire federal‑aid program just to fund one structure.
Then you don't understand how advance construction works with federal authorizations. Although a State cannot obligate more in an FFY than its obligation authority (not to be confused with apportionment), it certainly can authorize more through advance construction and most states do, up to their three-year limits.
QuoteWithout a specific congressional appropriation, there is no mechanism that delivers $8–$10 billion.
Bull.  FHWA has apportionment, other sources and other mechanisms available that can be brought to bear, States can borrow, Feds can borrow, etc., etc., etc.
QuoteAnd even if the mechanics somehow allowed it, it would be fundamentally unfair to the rest of the country.
My word.  You think the apportionment formulas are already fair as is?  Lots of states have megaprojects out there and billions are flowing to all of them without much resistance in the name of it being "unfair." :D

The funding and new contractor will all get sorted out and then move forward.  Just give it time. :)
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Beltway

None of that long-winded screed changes the fundamentals. Advance construction doesn't create money; it only sequences obligation authority. Maryland's federal‑aid program is a fixed annual allocation, and even with AC it cannot absorb an $8–$10 billion structure. MDTA's bonding headroom is in the hundreds of millions, not billions. Without a buildable alternative, a concurred estimate, and a contractor, FHWA cannot obligate construction dollars from any source. Those are the gating items.

Period.
Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

Rothman

Quote from: Beltway on May 10, 2026, 02:53:24 PMNone of that long-winded screed changes the fundamentals. Advance construction doesn't create money; it only sequences obligation authority. Maryland's federal‑aid program is a fixed annual allocation, and even with AC it cannot absorb an $8–$10 billion structure. MDTA's bonding headroom is in the hundreds of millions, not billions. Without a buildable alternative, a concurred estimate, and a contractor, FHWA cannot obligate construction dollars from any source. Those are the gating items.

Period.

Nah, not period (and thanks for repeating what I laid out...?).  You're just making it out to be impossible for the bridge to continue to be progressed, when I'm pointing out that's far from the case.  A mixture of a lot of strategies can be brought to bear to get the funding together once the design is completed.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Beltway

At this point there's nothing further to discuss until and unless real new information emerges.

The gating items haven't changed.
Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

Rothman

Quote from: Beltway on May 10, 2026, 03:15:53 PMAt this point there's nothing further to discuss until and unless real new information emerges.

On this, we can agree.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

kphoger

Quote from: Beltway on May 10, 2026, 02:53:24 PM... the gating items. 

Period.

You already used a period at the end of your last sentence.  There was no need to add the word 'Period' all spelled out like that (with an actual period after it!).  Simply using a punctuation mark as intended is sufficient to convey that your thought has terminated.

He Is Already Here! Let's Go, Flamingo!
Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances?
Deut 23:13
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: PKDIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

GaryV

Quote from: kphoger on May 11, 2026, 09:55:18 AMThere was no need to add the word 'Period'

It's for emphasis. Full Stop.

 :bigass:

LilianaUwU

Quote from: GaryV on May 11, 2026, 10:33:28 AMFull Stop.
Something Americans apparently don't do, considering we call rolling stops "stops à l'américaine".
"Volcano with no fire... Not volcano... Just mountain."
—Mr. Thwomp

My pronouns are she/her, no matter what you think about that.

PColumbus73

tl:dr - Beltway is bored and they must scream

vdeane

Better to terminate thoughts with a period than with a T-800.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

kphoger

Quote from: vdeane on May 11, 2026, 12:50:52 PMBetter to terminate thoughts with a period than with a T-800.

And terminators like these require a specialized tool to remove:

He Is Already Here! Let's Go, Flamingo!
Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances?
Deut 23:13
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: PKDIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

NE2

Quote from: PColumbus73 on May 11, 2026, 12:27:49 PMtl:dr - Beltway is bored and they must scream
I don't know why we let them have a mouth.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

ElishaGOtis

Ok... I've probably asked this before, but what do y'all think are the chances this WON'T get rebuilt and instead go down the path of Texas SH-87 and the like? The cost keeps absolutely ballooning...
I can drive 55 ONLY when it makes sense.

NOTE: Opinions expressed here on AARoads are solely my own and do not represent or reflect the statements, opinions, or decisions of any agency. Any official information I share will be quoted or specified from another source.

My ideal speed limits (FAKE/FICTIONAL NOT OFFICIAL) :
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1Ia4RR_BaYyzgJq4n3JcYzkNZjLYKzGQ