Signage pet peeves

[Ian]

^ Those I-95 button copy signs have been replaced 

[Michael in Philly]

Take the name down a few sizes, maybe a narrower type, and put it on one line - and you'd have a good looking sign. And, if the local common name is "Deegan Expy" - then use that.

As a middle-aged native of the New York area, "Major Deegan Expressway" sounds right; so does "the Deegan" as a shortening.  "Deegan Expressway" sounds wrong - well, at least looks wrong, because the "Major" wouldn't be left off on a map.  Others' mileage may vary....

[hbelkins]

Then those signs have been replaced since last fall, since I took those pics on my way home from the Springfield, Mass. road meet.

[TheStranger]

I tend to agree with TheStranger on this one especially when you factor in the local radio and TV stations who continue to use the freeway names (Bayshore, Eastshore, MacArthur, Nimitz, etc), in combination with the route numbers, quite extensively on their traffic reports.  

I've also heard KCBS, the local all-news radio station in San Francisco, refer to CA-85 as the "West Valley Freeway" or the "Stevens Creek Freeway".

Wow!  While I've known 85 as the Stevens Creek freeway for years, I didn't realize that name was actually in common usage (though Stevens Creek Boulevard is a well known thoroughfare in the area).

Junipero Serra Freeway (another freeway name derived from the existing boulevard it paralleled/replaced) is the other well known one in the area.  The Cypress section of the Nimitz hasn't been referred to as a separate entity since the late 90s though, now that it is once again one unified route (and with the Cypress replacement not being a double-deck structure).

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Same with the "Edens Spur" - just make it part of the Edens.

In that case, the differentiation actually makes sense - the Edens Spur is a toll road, unlike the rest of the expressway.  (Isn't US 41 north of the spur still part of the Edens?  Though it's listed on Google Maps and Wikipedia as part of Skokie Highway)

[J N Winkler]

Then those signs have been replaced since last fall, since I took those pics on my way home from the Springfield, Mass. road meet.

They were probably replaced as part of the Alexander Hamilton Bridge rehabilitation (NYSDOT key number X726.81).

[Stratuscaster]

In that case, the differentiation actually makes sense - the Edens Spur is a toll road, unlike the rest of the expressway.  (Isn't US 41 north of the spur still part of the Edens?  Though it's listed on Google Maps and Wikipedia as part of Skokie Highway)

Google labels the Edens Spur as "Edens Expy (Toll Road)" - for what that's worth. And from what I recall, there's one mainline toll plaza on the Spur - really just to serve as the last/first toll for getting on/off the Tri-State.

They could do like they do with I-88 in IL - east of Sterling/Rock Falls, it's the "Reagan Memorial Tollway" - west of there it's the "Reagan Memorial Expressway."

[InterstateNG]

Google Maps is incorrect.  The Edens Expressway designation continues up 41 to Highland Park.  Spur is a different facility altogether and was constructed later.

[NE2]

Given its short length, the spur is probably not worth signing by name. Just say TOLLWAY at the Edens end and EDENS EXPWY at the tollway end.

[Stratuscaster]

Based on the latest signage that I mentioned earlier, that's likely the result - just the black-on-yellow TOLL banner above the cardinal direction.

I know and understand the Spur was a separate facility from the Edens itself. 'Spose I can just chalk it up to forever being one of those "local road quirks."

[Michael in Philly]

Google Maps is incorrect....

[Brandon]

In that case, the differentiation actually makes sense - the Edens Spur is a toll road, unlike the rest of the expressway.  (Isn't US 41 north of the spur still part of the Edens?  Though it's listed on Google Maps and Wikipedia as part of Skokie Highway)

Google labels the Edens Spur as "Edens Expy (Toll Road)" - for what that's worth. And from what I recall, there's one mainline toll plaza on the Spur - really just to serve as the last/first toll for getting on/off the Tri-State.

They could do like they do with I-88 in IL - east of Sterling/Rock Falls, it's the "Reagan Memorial Tollway" - west of there it's the "Reagan Memorial Expressway."

Google needs to pull its head from its ass.  The Edens Spur is a part of the Tri-State Tollway.  The full name is The Edens Spur of the Tri-State Tollway.  The Edens itself continues north on US-41 and becomes Skokie Highway.

[Stratuscaster]

Rather, Google needs to hire some "road enthusiasts."

[1995hoo]

It's probably not right for me to call this a "pet peeve" because it's not a road I travel often at all, but this thread seems like the most appropriate one because I found the formatting on these signs annoying. This past week on FL-417 I noted a number of signs that said "Pay Toll .50" or ".75" or whatever. I found myself wondering why they didn't use the cent sign such that the signs would say "Pay Toll 50¢" or the like. The decimal style (especially without "$0.50") struck me as less clear at a quick glance.

I wonder if they figured that since so many people no longer use the cent sign because it was omitted from computer keyboards maybe people no longer know what it means.

Here's an example of one such sign (lousy Street View image, but it's legible):

http://maps.google.com/?ll=28.375316,-81.412082&spn=0.028999,0.066047&z=15&layer=c&cbll=28.375336,-81.412206&panoid=XmapnAuTTk3I96xN31LALw&cbp=12,297.62,,0,-10.94

[vdeane]

Could also be that everyone puts things in terms of dollars these days because coins are virtually worthless due to inflation.

[deathtopumpkins]

Then those signs have been replaced since last fall, since I took those pics on my way home from the Springfield, Mass. road meet.

And I can vouch they were still there as of April. Unfortunately when I passed through NYC last weekend I took the Tappan Zee instead of the GWB though so I can't vouch for more recently than that.

[realjd]

It's probably not right for me to call this a "pet peeve" because it's not a road I travel often at all, but this thread seems like the most appropriate one because I found the formatting on these signs annoying. This past week on FL-417 I noted a number of signs that said "Pay Toll .50" or ".75" or whatever. I found myself wondering why they didn't use the cent sign such that the signs would say "Pay Toll 50¢" or the like. The decimal style (especially without "$0.50") struck me as less clear at a quick glance.

I wonder if they figured that since so many people no longer use the cent sign because it was omitted from computer keyboards maybe people no longer know what it means.

I would guess that the large number of foreign tourists may play a part in that. There's a reason that "Disney World" and "Int'l Airport" are two of the most common control "cities" on Orlando area freeways!

[vtk]

Another pet peeve of mine: adjacent borders of the same color that aren't merged into a single border.  This is particularly common with exit number panels.  Really, if they're going to give the exit tab a full, 4-sided box with all corners rounded, the least they could do is overlap it slightly with the main sign panel so there's not effectively a double-thick border between the exit number and the rest of the sign.

[roadfro]

Another pet peeve of mine: adjacent borders of the same color that aren't merged into a single border.  This is particularly common with exit number panels.  Really, if they're going to give the exit tab a full, 4-sided box with all corners rounded, the least they could do is overlap it slightly with the main sign panel so there's not effectively a double-thick border between the exit number and the rest of the sign.

Nevada's solution for this, at least on older signs, was that the exit tab only had a three-sided border. The bottom of the exit tab had no border, and the bottoms of the side borders went straight down the edge of the sign. This would result in a border gab at the bottom right corner of the tab, as the right edge of the tab lined up with the curved corner border of the main sign panel.

NDOT doesn't seem to do this much anymore, as most recent installations I've seen have a fully-bordered exit tab.

[vtk]

Another pet peeve of mine: adjacent borders of the same color that aren't merged into a single border.  This is particularly common with exit number panels.  Really, if they're going to give the exit tab a full, 4-sided box with all corners rounded, the least they could do is overlap it slightly with the main sign panel so there's not effectively a double-thick border between the exit number and the rest of the sign.

Nevada's solution for this, at least on older signs, was that the exit tab only had a three-sided border. The bottom of the exit tab had no border, and the bottoms of the side borders went straight down the edge of the sign. This would result in a border gab at the bottom right corner of the tab, as the right edge of the tab lined up with the curved corner border of the main sign panel.

NDOT doesn't seem to do this much anymore, as most recent installations I've seen have a fully-bordered exit tab.

That's a fairly common way of doing it in Ohio, too.  That method looks especially good when the upper-right corner of the main sign panel isn't rounded.  Really, I think the MUTCD should have standardized on that.

[ftballfan]

On I-75 and I-475 in Toledo there are still quite a few button copy signs, but I fear that many of them will be replaced with Clearview in the near future because of the slight presence of it along both roads. When did Ohio stop using button copy?

[roadfro]

I don't think I've mentioned it in this thread, but one of my signage pet peeves is exit only panels. In particular, I don't like how the border is drawn around only part of the panel when it's at the bottom of the overall sign. This causes the additional problem of having the black edge of the panel border directly on the edge of the overall sign, when there should be some yellow on the outside edge as is typical of warning signage.

Example from forum user kniwt (US 395 NB in Reno, NV):


In my opinion, the exit only panel should be set in slightly from the edge of the sign. The panel should either be fully bordered or have no border at all (I like the look without a border).

Example from AARoads (I-80 EB in Reno, NV):

[vtk]

I don't think I've mentioned it in this thread, but one of my signage pet peeves is exit only panels. In particular, I don't like how the border is drawn around only part of the panel when it's at the bottom of the overall sign. This causes the additional problem of having the black edge of the panel border directly on the edge of the overall sign, when there should be some yellow on the outside edge as is typical of warning signage.

Example from forum user kniwt (US 395 NB in Reno, NV):


In my opinion, the exit only panel should be set in slightly from the edge of the sign. The panel should either be fully bordered or have no border at all (I like the look without a border).

Example from AARoads (I-80 EB in Reno, NV):

Either of those styles looks fine to me.  The second one is really slick if the rounded corners in the lower-right are all concentric, and the extra green is trimmed from outside the corners, like I have seen in North Carolina. 

[Central Avenue]

Personally I actually prefer the first style, with the black border incorporated into the border of the sign.

Granted, that's purely an aesthetic preference on my part, and is probably heavily influenced by growing up in Ohio (where that is the standard)

[roadfro]

My issue is more with the unfinished border of the panel than the black border being incorporated. Unfortunately, the first style is much more prevalent in Nevada. I think it looks incredibly tacky.

It bothers me much more on signs like the ones I linked above, where there's an exit only and a drop lane, so that only one corner of the sign has the panel. If the whole bottom of the sign is an exit only panel, it seems less egregious to me. As in either sign in this example below from AARoads (US 95 SB approaching Rancho Dr & I-15).

[J N Winkler]

I don't think I've mentioned it in this thread, but one of my signage pet peeves is exit only panels. In particular, I don't like how the border is drawn around only part of the panel when it's at the bottom of the overall sign. This causes the additional problem of having the black edge of the panel border directly on the edge of the overall sign, when there should be some yellow on the outside edge as is typical of warning signage.

I personally don't have a problem with that arrangement because I can see the black border around the "EXIT ONLY" panel (whether full-width or not) as a continuation of the white-on-green sign border.  But this is an area where tastes vary.

What I absolutely hate is black borders for yellow patches on green signs.  The green-against-black color boundary just hurts.

Not all warning signage has a "doubled" border with the background color running to the physical edge of the sign.  It depends on the size of the sign.  Flat panel signs (usually classified as small signs) do have the doubled border, but if a large sign has a warning message, the background will be yellow and the black border will run to the physical edge of the sign.