Signage pet peeves

[roadfro]

Brand new "word-only" signs being posted for warnings or regulations (i.e., "Stop Ahead"), when graphic equivalents for them have existed in the MUTCD for decades.

MDOT in Michigan is known for that, they still install new text "Pavement Ends" and "Narrow Bridge" signs.

The 2009 MUTCD no longer has symbols for "Pavement Ends" and "Narrow Bridge". Narrow Bridge/One-lane bridge specifically was a symbol that was not readily understood by many drivers.

These may have even been eliminated in the 2003 edition or earlier (can't recall at the moment).

[SignBridge]

deanej, re: the solid white lines; this has been the law in New York for at least 50 years since my dad explained it to me when I was a little kid. I think someone misinformed you..........maybe your defensive driving instructor? It wouldn't be the first time a driving instructor didn't know his course material. (Chuckle!) But we're off-topic. If you'd like to send me a private message, I'll give you a few examples.

[MDOTFanFB]

The 2009 MUTCD no longer has symbols for "Pavement Ends" and "Narrow Bridge". Narrow Bridge/One-lane bridge specifically was a symbol that was not readily understood by many drivers.

These may have even been eliminated in the 2003 edition or earlier (can't recall at the moment).

County road comissions in Michigan experimented with symbols for both the mentioned signs, but motorists were confused, so they went back to the text versions. So they were deleted from the 2005 Michigan MUTCD, four years before their deletion from the federal MUTCD.

[RJ145]

• Brand new "word-only" signs being posted for warnings or regulations (i.e., "Stop Ahead"), when graphic equivalents for them have existed in the MUTCD for decades.

Or to go even further, when they add smaller word signs underneath an already existing symbol sign. There used to be a time when you had to know what the symbols meant, and frankly they are fairly obvious but I guess some people are just that dumb that they can't figure out that a picture of a fire truck means there is a fire station ahead.

[NE2]

How about when they add the state name to the state outline, as if you don't know what state is being shown?

[RJ145]

 

Not all of them do, although this may have just been a screw up by the sign manufacturer.

[Quillz]

How about when they add the state name to the state outline, as if you don't know what state is being shown?

Yeah, I find that annoying, too. For states that use more abstract shapes, like CA or NY, I have no issue with the state name, but when you shields for Arizona, Arkansas, Louisiana, etc, there is no need for the state name.

[froggie]

I have no issue with the state name, period.  I really don't see a reason why you can't have both the state outline and the state name within a shield.

[NE2]

I have no issue either. But then I have no issue with redundant text below a symbol.

[roadfro]

The 2009 MUTCD no longer has symbols for "Pavement Ends" and "Narrow Bridge". Narrow Bridge/One-lane bridge specifically was a symbol that was not readily understood by many drivers.

These may have even been eliminated in the 2003 edition or earlier (can't recall at the moment).

County road comissions in Michigan experimented with symbols for both the mentioned signs, but motorists were confused, so they went back to the text versions. So they were deleted from the 2005 Michigan MUTCD, four years before their deletion from the federal MUTCD.

Just checked. The "Narrow Bridge" symbol sign was an option in the MUTCD Millennium Edition, and that option was removed for the 2003 Edition. A symbol for "Pavement Ends" did not appear in any of the 2009, 2003 or Millennium editions of the manual.

[elsmere241]

I have no issue either. But then I have no issue with redundant text below a symbol.

You might not know what a symbol means the first time you see it.

[mightyace]

^^^

And, the sad truth is that many people do not know what state goes with what outline.

[hbelkins]

^^^

And, the sad truth is that many people do not know what state goes with what outline.

In recent days I have learned a lot of sad truths about what people do not know.

But getting back to signs, I remember that when many of the graphical signs were introduced in the late 60s and early 70s, text legends accompanied the new installations. I also remember that there was no symbolic sign for "narrow bridge" and I drew up something that looked eerily like what was eventually adopted and made its first appearance in Kentucky in the late 70s to early 80s.

[US71]

But getting back to signs, I remember that when many of the graphical signs were introduced in the late 60s and early 70s, text legends accompanied the new installations. I also remember that there was no symbolic sign for "narrow bridge" and I drew up something that looked eerily like what was eventually adopted and made its first appearance in Kentucky in the late 70s to early 80s.

I remember the Narrow Bridge sign showing up (I think) in ITE Journal as a proposed sign. Also the Pavement Ends and Limited Sight Distance signs showed up there, IIRC.

The University of Arkansas Library was a great place to find stuff. Besides ITE Journal, they had a 1940's , 60's and 70's MUTCD's plus an Arkansas MUTCD.

[Michael]

For old MUTCDs, see this link.  As for the "Narrow Bridge" sign, I understood a picture version when I first saw it.  The only one I can remember seeing is on Park Road in Selinsgrove, PA back in 2008.  It seemed obvious to me.  As for a "Pavement Ends" symbol, I imagined a sign similar to the one shown in the 1988 MUTCD.

[Kacie Jane]

^^^

And, the sad truth is that many people do not know what state goes with what outline.

But does that really matter?  Someone may not know what Arkansas is shaped like, but I would hope that if they were in a situation where they had to follow Arkansas-shaped signs, they would know what state they were in.

[corco]

But does that really matter?  Someone may not know what Arkansas is shaped like, but I would hope that if they were in a situation where they had to follow Arkansas-shaped signs, they would know what state they were in.

You expect too much from people

[US71]

But does that really matter?  Someone may not know what Arkansas is shaped like, but I would hope that if they were in a situation where they had to follow Arkansas-shaped signs, they would know what state they were in.

Only thing you have to worry about in Arkansas is making sure you're still on the right road...or that there IS a road. 

[cjk374]

^^^    AMEN Brother!  Testify!   

[Dr Frankenstein]

I can't think of any situation that should require to be used.

According to some notes in a 2009 MUTCD training slideshow, this sign can be used in an intersection when a road can be entered from the left, right or whatever else, but you can't go straight through. One possibility that comes to my mind right now is a restriction based on a schedule.

[mightyace]

^^^

As was said before, it can be used along with or in place of a do not enter.

Here we have an intersection where the cross street (West St.) is one way in opposing directions at the intersection with Main St.:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Bloomsburg,+PA&aq=0&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=50.956929,49.658203&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Bloomsburg,+Columbia,+Pennsylvania&ll=41.001174,-76.461035&spn=0.001496,0.001515&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=41.001222,-76.460926&panoid=0EleUJ-gdJFFpBQUK_J2tA&cbp=12,22.46,,0,-4.72

[NE2]

No, that's not what was said before. Its primary use is when you can enter from other approaches but you're not allowed to go straight.

[mightyace]

Picky, picky....

Anyway, that still doesn't invalidate the intersection I gave as an example as a place where it could be used.  (At least in my opinion.)

[Alps]

No, that's not what was said before. Its primary use is when you can enter from other approaches but you're not allowed to go straight.

I could see this sign being useful when you have a cross street but there's a median island without a break in it. Lets you know that you're not crossing that island.

[Central Avenue]

No, that's not what was said before. Its primary use is when you can enter from other approaches but you're not allowed to go straight.

I could see this sign being useful when you have a cross street but there's a median island without a break in it. Lets you know that you're not crossing that island.

In that case, wouldn't a "RIGHT TURN ONLY" (accompanied by a "ONE WAY" on the median itself) be sufficient?