OpenStreetMap

[noelbotevera]

what

No seriously, I actually don't know what's going on. I tried OSM before, but let's just say I had some unexpected results...

[jakeroot]

No seriously, I actually don't know what's going on. I tried OSM before, but let's just say I had some unexpected results...

The state of Washington considers SR-500 from Interstate 5 to Falk Road and again from Stapleton Road to Fourth Plain to be freeway, so it was changed to highway=motorway to reflect this. However, Paul Johnson disagrees with the change, citing that consistency within OSM would instead make this a trunk road, as Falk and Stapleton are both signals. While everyone is aware that the entirety of the the highway between I-5 and Fourth Plain is not freeway, Mr Johnson suggests that the lengths currently marked as freeway (err, Motorway) are "not long enough" and lack "enough interchanges" to make it a freeway, and instead qualify it as a trunk road. We are saying, as more or less local residents, that the freeway is marked as a freeway by not only signs in the field (WSDOT has posted "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" signs at the interchanges), but by the official state map, and those should be enough to qualify it as motorway. Period.

Or, at least this is how I've interpreted it.

[lordsutch]

Also, not sure who Chris Lawrence is, but I'm glad to see he disagrees with Paul.

That'd be me.

[jakeroot]

Also, not sure who Chris Lawrence is, but I'm glad to see he disagrees with Paul.

That'd be me.

Excellent! I thought it might be one of us.

[route56]

Also, not sure who Chris Lawrence is, but I'm glad to see he disagrees with Paul.

he is lordsutch, from AARoads

[jakeroot]

Also, not sure who Chris Lawrence is, but I'm glad to see he disagrees with Paul.

he is lordsutch, from AARoads

Well, duh, I know that now.

[route56]

Well, duh, I know that now.

Must have missed the "a new message has been posted" alert.

[jakeroot]

Well, duh, I know that now.

Must have missed the "a new message has been posted" alert.

We all do once or twice.

[rickmastfan67]

Anybody want to help back me up on this?
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/33674410#map=15/40.9467/-77.7880

[route56]

Anybody want to help back me up on this?
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/33674410#map=15/40.9467/-77.7880

Sorry, I don't think one isolated interchange qualifies the road as motorway. You may wish to review the HFCS to determine if it should be classed as primary or trunk.

[Bickendan]

That's what Rick's arguing and asking backup for...

[lordsutch]

I'd also expect some degree of restriction of non-motorized traffic at least. GSV doesn't show any evidence of pedestrian restrictions (much less excluding bikes, horses, ag vehicles, etc.), which is something of a hallmark of a motorway-class facility in OSM.

[english si]

I'd also expect some degree of restriction of non-motorized traffic at least. GSV doesn't show any evidence of pedestrian restrictions (much less excluding bikes, horses, ag vehicles, etc.), which is something of a hallmark of a motorway-class facility in OSM.

And arguably, given that (while using UK colours, the tags don't match the UK road system) everyone seems to think that the tags are an exact match for the UK road network, then at-grades and undivided highways don't matter, just the restrictions.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/54.1320/-2.7571

[Bickendan]

Paul strikes again...
My change set: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/33749829
I had flipped the two lane divided WA 14 bridge from exit 12 to Lady Island from motorway to trunk, and upgraded the primary segment at the end of the freeway in Washougal to Washougal River Rd to trunk.
His: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/33754973
Reverts that latter segment back to primary, downgrades everything else to trunk.

Surprised he hasn't mucked with my changes to the US 26/OR 6 interchange (ended the motorway at Mountaindale Rd -- at grade crossing -- and moved OR 6 up to trunk up to OR 47).

[rickmastfan67]

Anybody want to help back me up on this?
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/33674410#map=15/40.9467/-77.7880

Sorry, I don't think one isolated interchange qualifies the road as motorway. You may wish to review the HFCS to determine if it should be classed as primary or trunk.

See below.

That's what Rick's arguing and asking backup for...

Yep.  Not my changeset, but I left 2 comments on it asking the user why he upgraded it again.

[Bickendan]

Yes, that is the point, Bickendan, which is why I'm rejecting WSDOT's assertation and substituting in one that is the most consistent in accurately describing this object. One thing we do need to watch out for is an upward creep in tag classification as well or the higher classifications lose meaning. When there's a concise way to accurately describe that, why not do that instead of trying to pass it off as a larger road because a state agency did? What WSDOT has it down as on paper and how it functions in actual operation are two different things.

But this is the point you're not considering: We are classifying how the road functions in actual operation, from in the field observation!

Evidently not, motorways are controlled access, divided exclusively.

[rickmastfan67]

Yes, that is the point, Bickendan, which is why I'm rejecting WSDOT's assertation and substituting in one that is the most consistent in accurately describing this object. One thing we do need to watch out for is an upward creep in tag classification as well or the higher classifications lose meaning. When there's a concise way to accurately describe that, why not do that instead of trying to pass it off as a larger road because a state agency did? What WSDOT has it down as on paper and how it functions in actual operation are two different things.

But this is the point you're not considering: We are classifying how the road functions in actual operation, from in the field observation!

Evidently not, motorways are controlled access, divided exclusively.

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2015-September/015281.html 

Bickendan, I recommend you joining in on the talk on [talk-us] too.

[lordsutch]

Oh the irony. The lane counts he's complaining about being deleted... were deleted by him.

[NE2]

I feel like I have to compliment him on his self-control for not posting in this thread.

[rickmastfan67]

Oh the irony. The lane counts he's complaining about being deleted... were deleted by him.

I know.

Now that he's calling out jakeroot as the person vandalizing the map and removing the tags, I had to step in and make a post myself finally on the mailing list and recommended to the DWG to block Paul till he apologizes.
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2015-September/015292.html

[Bickendan]

Yes, that is the point, Bickendan, which is why I'm rejecting WSDOT's assertation and substituting in one that is the most consistent in accurately describing this object. One thing we do need to watch out for is an upward creep in tag classification as well or the higher classifications lose meaning. When there's a concise way to accurately describe that, why not do that instead of trying to pass it off as a larger road because a state agency did? What WSDOT has it down as on paper and how it functions in actual operation are two different things.

But this is the point you're not considering: We are classifying how the road functions in actual operation, from in the field observation!

Evidently not, motorways are controlled access, divided exclusively.

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2015-September/015281.html 

Bickendan, I recommend you joining in on the talk on [talk-us] too.

What's the easiest way of doing so?

[rickmastfan67]

Yes, that is the point, Bickendan, which is why I'm rejecting WSDOT's assertation and substituting in one that is the most consistent in accurately describing this object. One thing we do need to watch out for is an upward creep in tag classification as well or the higher classifications lose meaning. When there's a concise way to accurately describe that, why not do that instead of trying to pass it off as a larger road because a state agency did? What WSDOT has it down as on paper and how it functions in actual operation are two different things.

But this is the point you're not considering: We are classifying how the road functions in actual operation, from in the field observation!

Evidently not, motorways are controlled access, divided exclusively.

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2015-September/015281.html 

Bickendan, I recommend you joining in on the talk on [talk-us] too.

What's the easiest way of doing so?

Register here: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Then just wait till the next email with the subject of 'Request revert on Changeset #33669446' comes into your selected e-mail since that will prevent you from starting a new chain for that subject.

[rickmastfan67]

jakeroot, can you explain all the ways merged in Changeset 33587233?  Did iD not alert you to the turn:lanes or other tags being different?

[jakeroot]

jakeroot, can you explain all the ways merged in Changeset 33587233?  Did iD not alert you to the turn:lanes or other tags being different?

I do not remember any alerts but I did merge some nodes. I was careful to make sure they did not have different tags but it looks like I messed a few up.

A don't think that's a difficult fix though, is it? I do feel like a complete moron, and I certainly don't feel like I'm helping our case here, but I don't think that many are screwed up. There are plenty of nodes that I did not merge.

Late Edit: I can understand if he wants to revert the changes. I had no idea until viewing in JOSM how much data was deleted. This certainly was not intentional, and while I certainly feel that the road should remain as motorway, for the sake of his conscious and that I feel his edits are not worth deleting, the changes should probably be reverted and someone with more experience in editing OSM should make the necessary modifications to return the segments (as present) to motorway.

I think I'm going to go ahead and stick to small-town editing.

Also, I have an .osm file with potential lane modifications, returning as much of the original setup, as edited by Baloo (i.e. Paul Johnson) to how it was, minus highway=trunk, but I don't want to upload any additional changes without some oversight, for fear of being banned for destructive editing.

[Buffaboy]

I just tried this out today. Why are there so many inaccuracies?