Confederate Flag and MS state flag

[NE2]

[edit: this was split from the Mississippi thread]

Isn't the stars and bars specifically the battle flag, rather than the standard confederate flag?

[Ace10]

As far as I know (which isn't very far), the Confederate Flag was never used as an official symbol of the Confederate States of America. Plus the Stars and Bars was actually the first National Flag of the United States. However, during WWII the Confederate flag was used in some battles and by the Navy.

[berberry]

As far as I know (which isn't very far), the Confederate Flag was never used as an official symbol of the Confederate States of America.

This is correct.  It was not the official flag, but it was the battle standard.  However, that fact more-or-less makes it at least semi-official; you can't blame people for thinking it was the confederate flag when it was in fact the flag that confederate soldiers carried with them.

It's kinda like how today, we in the US are not officially at war with anybody.  Except that we are.

AbE:  And incidentally, that last comment wasn't meant to be political, but just to state a fact.

[qguy]

As far as I know (which isn't very far), the Confederate Flag was never used as an official symbol of the Confederate States of America. Plus the Stars and Bars was actually the first National Flag of the United States. However, during WWII the Confederate flag was used in some battles and by the Navy.

The Stars and Bars was the first national flag of the *Confederate* States of America (not the United States). This was a field of stars in a blue canton (top left) with three broad stripes, red on top and bottom and white in the middle.

The battle flag, the red flag with the blue X, began to be used after the Stars and Bars proved to be confused in battle with the U.S. flag (the Stars and Stripes). This is what most people today think of as the Confederate flag. The battle flag, however, was square, not rectangular. The rectangular version was only used as a Confederate Navy jack.

Actually, the battle flag which was the red square with the blue X design was the fourth battle flag. After the first national Confederate States flag proved too confusing in battle, a second design for the national Confederate States flag was used in battle. This was similar to the first, but the two red stripes were eliminated, leaving only the blue canton in a field of white. While this flag was no longer confused with the U.S. flag, it was unfortunately more confused instead with a flag of surrender. (Couldn't see THAT coming!) Not a good idea in battle, to say the least. (This flag is often called the "Stainless Banner.")

The third attempt at a national CS flag was similar to the second, but a red vertical bar was added to the fly (the far end). (This flag is often called the "Blood-Soaked Banner.")

Most definitely more vexillological infomation than anyone ever wanted to know on a highways forum, but hey, those CS flags are often confused. 'Course, those Confederate designers weren't helping any.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

End of the day, ask any black person what they think of the Confederate flag.  You won't get any glowing reviews.

[NE2]

Ask any redneck what they think of black people... we won't go there

Anyway, I incorrectly thought the eventual battle flag was called the Stars and Bars (since it has two diagonal bars with stars). So the real question is why people nowadays choose the battle flag rather than the pre-war official flag. And that's probably more off-topic here than we want to get, so we should probably let it rest.

[agentsteel53]

why people nowadays choose the battle flag rather than the pre-war official flag

because no one apart from some really anal historians thinks of the Confederacy as existing in any form other than at war with the Union.

[froggie]

End of the day, ask any black person what they think of the Confederate flag.  You won't get any glowing reviews.

It's funny you mention that.  Some years back, the state held a flag referendum, and I did some quick maps with the results.  I've since deleted the maps, but as I recall there were at least 3 black-majority counties that voted to retain the existing state flag.

[qguy]

End of the day, ask any black person what they think of the Confederate flag.  You won't get any glowing reviews.

Won't get any argument from me on that.

At any rate, as a former U.S. Air Force officer I'll quote a good friend of mine who for four years was a Soviet airborne paratrooper before he immigrated to America: "(grinning broadly) Today the Stars and Stripes is the only flag for me."

[brownpelican]

End of the day, ask any black person what they think of the Confederate flag.  You won't get any glowing reviews.

I've found out about the real Confederate flag in the Baton Rouge paper several years ago, proving me wrong. However, many black people insist that I am wrong about the Stars and Bars when I tell them the history behind it.

[mgk920]

Why was my first thought, upon seeing the design of Georgia's current state flag a couple of years ago, "BRILLIANT!!!"???

And why have the 'usual suspects' been so totally quiet about it?



 

Mike

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

Why was my first thought, upon seeing the design of Georgia's current state flag a couple of years ago, "BRILLIANT!!!"???

And why have the 'usual suspects' been so totally quiet about it?



 

Mike

I don't live in Georgia.
If Obama supported complete US commitment to the metric system, would you (as the biggest metric system fan I know of) be against it?

[mgk920]

Why was my first thought, upon seeing the design of Georgia's current state flag a couple of years ago, "BRILLIANT!!!"???

And why have the 'usual suspects' been so totally quiet about it?



 

Mike

I don't live in Georgia.
If Obama supported complete US commitment to the metric system, would you (as the biggest metric system fan I know of) be against it?

"...there is no limit to what a man can do or where he can go if he doesn't mind who gets the credit."
Ronald Reagan

Mike

[mightyace]

^^^

I don't think Regan originated the quote.  I know my dad said it long before I'd ever heard of Ronald Reagan and my dad never credited it to originating from any person.

On the flag, well, a lot of southerners say:

It's history not hate.

Maybe that's true, but elsewhere, I've found the Confederate Battle Flag is mainly used by Caucasian people who don't care for "people of color".

[mgk920]

^^^

I don't think Regan originated the quote.  I know my dad said it long before I'd ever heard of Ronald Reagan and my dad never credited it to originating from any person.

Reagan said that back in the 1960s.

Mike

[Alps]

Why was my first thought, upon seeing the design of Georgia's current state flag a couple of years ago, "BRILLIANT!!!"???

And why have the 'usual suspects' been so totally quiet about it?



 

Mike

I don't live in Georgia.
If Obama supported complete US commitment to the metric system, would you (as the biggest metric system fan I know of) be against it?

"...there is no limit to what a man can do or where he can go if he doesn't mind who gets the credit."
Ronald Reagan

Mike

Well, if he doesn't mind who gets the credit, then that quote belongs to Mae West. And it's sexual.

[mightyace]

^^^

Thanks, I didn't think Reagan nor my dad originated that.

[SSF]

The history not hate argument is laughable.  The flag's history is of hate.  It is impossible to think of the flag without thinking of hate.