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Author Topic: I-73 updates?  (Read 44665 times)

sparker

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #125 on: February 19, 2021, 06:29:43 PM »

So after 30 years of planning, it's safe to say that I-73 (along with the I-74 extension) was a failed project from the start.
Yes, for travel to the Carolinas, US 35 is just way too convenient compared to the alignment proposed for I-73/74, and even more so once WV finishes the last 4 lane portion.

Without freeway upgrades to US 23, the road can still improve with a bypass around South Bloomfield, and an expressway bypass on the northeast side of Delaware between US 36 and US 23, and traffic can use US 36 to connect to I-71. The in planning Sunbury Pkwy project will reduce the burden on the I-71/US 36 interchange.

Back in 1991-95, when the whole corridor concept was in its early stages, MI simply wanted to make sure the US 127 (the north part of which was still US 27 then) corridor was completed as a freeway south to the state line; the then-novel HPC approach was seen as a way to achieve that with maximally available federal fund matching.  Ohio was always lukewarm at best about an additional N-S corridor through Columbus, instead putting their funds toward improving US 35, which they figured was the most optimal way for commercial traffic to access both I-64 and I-77 in neighboring WV.  However, they were somewhat more enthused about a I-74 extension east of Cincinnati, connecting that city with I-64 to the east so commercial traffic could get more directly to VA and NC.  So the congressional "packagers" of HPC #5, centered in NC (of course), cobbled up the multi-faceted corridor cluster, incorporating politically-motivated route additions in WV and VA into the package, and duplicating it in southern OH, positing a Portsmouth-Cincinnati link, largely superimposed on the OH 32 ARC corridor but also including the recently-opened Portsmouth bypass.  In short, ODOT has had no problem expediting portions of the I-73/74 corridor if it had localized value -- its just that they have found the corridor taken as a whole entity to be superfluous and not reflecting state priorities.  But that hasn't stopped them from undertaking individual projects along the corridor's length, such as the I-75/OH 15/US 68 interchange as well as the aforementioned Portsmouth bypass, now signed as OH 823.  Spot freeway upgrades of the OH 32 corridor east of Cincinnati have also taken place, assisted by HPC funds.  But whether any of those will ever be tied together into a cohesive and continuous corridor remains to be seen -- but at present is highly unlikely. 

Nevertheless I'll make a prediction -- Ohio's share of the I-74 segment of HPC #5 will reach fruition before a mile of I-73 (the I-75 Findlay interchange notwithstanding) is constructed north of the Portsmouth bypass.  It's as much a "missing link" in the regional Interstate network as anything -- and the remainder of OH 32 out to where a Portsmouth bypass connector would diverge somewhere around Peebles would be a relatively straightforward upgrade regimen.  The connector over the rolling hills between there and the Scioto Valley would be the principal "heavy" project of the bunch; and as far as Cincinnati is concerned, it's likely that an extended I-74 would simply follow the I-275 beltway around the north side of town rather than try to carve a new-terrain path through highly developed suburbs.  I'd guesstimate a 35-year horizon for that to happen -- but that's a far cry from the infinite "delay" regarding I-73, especially now that MI has in essence lost interest in their share of the corridor.
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GaryV

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #126 on: February 19, 2021, 06:30:44 PM »

So after 30 years of planning, it's safe to say that I-73 (along with the I-74 extension) was a failed project from the start.

Nah, it gave NC a couple more 2-di's.
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Hot Rod Hootenanny

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #127 on: February 19, 2021, 11:31:43 PM »

I guess this fact has faded away over the years, ODOT was never involved with I-73/74.
Quote
In a case of lucky foreshadowing, in 1990 (then) Governor George Voinovich had approved expanding the Ohio Turnpike Commission's authority to allow it to fund other highway projects, other than the current Ohio Turnpike. This gave Ohio a "backdoor" approach for highway funding if the Ohio Department of Transportation (ODOT) did not have enough funds to properly plan or construct any new highways. By the end of 1993 Governor Voinovich had given approval for the Ohio Turnpike Commission (OTC) to do a feasibility study for the proposed I-73 in Ohio. For the next three years I-73 would be an OTC project with ODOT having no part in planning it. This would ultimately affect the future of the project.
Who would write such a thing...

ODH/ODOT came up with I-75, Oh 15, US 23 for traffic between Toledo and Columbus in the mid 1960s and hasn't felt the need to add to that collection since.





« Last Edit: February 19, 2021, 11:34:57 PM by Hot Rod Hootenanny »
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SkyPesos

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #128 on: February 19, 2021, 11:47:06 PM »

ODH/ODOT came up with I-75, Oh 15, US 23 for traffic between Toledo and Columbus in the mid 1960s and hasn't felt the need to add to that collection since.

I'm looking at Cincinnati at that map, and there are expressways that doesn't exist currently and apparently were planned back in the 60s

The leftmost N-S dotted line looks to be US 27. The section south of I-275 was part of the Colerain Freeway project, which got cancelled later on. North of I-275, it's an expressway up to OH 128, and two lane the rest of the way north. Would be nice if it's 4 laned all the way to at least Oxford, which is where Miami University is.

The N-S dotted line east of the US 27 one seems to be a combination of US 127, OH 4 and OH 73 between I-275 and I-75 at Franklin, serving Hamilton and Middletown in its route. US 127 between I-275 and Hamilton is not even close to being an expressway at all. I guess they gave up turning US 127 into an expressway through dense suburbs and came up with OH 129 for Hamilton instead.

Also interesting to see that OH 32 wasn't planned as an expressway at all back then, and instead it was proposed to use US 52 eastward of Cincinnati instead.

US 50 in Cincy is currently a combination of freeway, expressway, undivided 4 lane and 2 lane between the two I-275 interchanges. That map shows a full expressway between the I-275s
« Last Edit: February 19, 2021, 11:51:02 PM by SkyPesos »
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mrose

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #129 on: February 20, 2021, 05:41:36 AM »

I'll never understand why either of them (73 and 74) got signed. 74 makes even less sense.
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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #130 on: February 20, 2021, 11:21:49 AM »

US 23 could still use a bypass of Waverly (and possibly Piketon) and I'm not aware of any plans for that. A bypass of South Bloomfield and an interchange at OH 762 are planned but I'm not aware if they are funded at this time. MORPC has in its long term plans a freeway upgrade for US 23 from the southern extent of its area of interest (the Pickaway–Franklin County line) to I-270.

In Delaware County, there are plans for a northeast bypass of Delaware, but I don't believe it's planned to be a freeway. IMO best case scenario is an at-grade divided road with limited property access and traffic lights appearing as the area develops. I don't know what the time frame is for this project. I don't know if it will be signed as a state route, but if it is, it won't be 223, because US 223 exists elsewhere in the state.

From Waldo north to Findlay, the route is fully expressway grade or better, with no stoplights. I don't believe there is any initiative to eliminate all of the at-grade intersections along the entire corridor, but spot improvements do occur from time to time.
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SkyPesos

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #131 on: February 20, 2021, 12:47:32 PM »

Regarding I-74, I’m going to point out that there’s 3 routings from Cincinnati to Charleston depending on where you are in the metro area

From downtown: 32-35
From KY suburbs: AA-64
From most of the northern suburbs (Sharonville, Montgomery, Mason, etc): 71-35

None of these involve US 23 or Portsmouth, which was part of the planned alignment of I-74 east of Cincy.
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seicer

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #132 on: February 22, 2021, 12:58:38 PM »

It really never has been proposed for either Ohio or Kentucky - just proposals from politicians with never any true backing from either ODOT or KYTC.

silverback1065

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #133 on: February 22, 2021, 02:07:32 PM »

i-74 doesn't need to exist east of where it ends in Cincy. any idea for it to go further east is absurd. I-73 is also absurd too. the interstate routings in NC are useful, but outside of NC just a giant waste of money. Ohio needs to connect Columbus to I-75 and that's it. Michigan needs to fix all their annoying freeway gaps on their interstate grade us routes. Adding another interstate in WV and that part of kentucky is a waste of time and money. each state has more important transportation needs to tend to.
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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #134 on: February 22, 2021, 02:09:57 PM »

That 'bypass' of Delaware sounds like it is not worth it if it's not going to be a freeway.  What good is another traffic signal choked corridor lined with strip malls and mcmansions and no room to upgrade?  Because that's what they'll have ~10 years after it's done.
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Lyon Wonder

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #135 on: February 23, 2021, 01:52:59 AM »

Getting into fictional territory, but I think I-73 in NC should be a southern extension of I-99.
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SP Cook

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #136 on: February 23, 2021, 12:17:57 PM »

Getting into fictional territory, but I think I-73 in NC should be a southern extension of I-99.

I-73 (and I-74 and I-99) could be easily, clearly, and accurately signed using existing US highway numbers, which is what should happen.  Not every freeway has to get a red white and blue sign.
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Ryctor2018

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #137 on: February 23, 2021, 01:37:49 PM »

i-74 doesn't need to exist east of where it ends in Cincy. any idea for it to go further east is absurd. I-73 is also absurd too. the interstate routings in NC are useful, but outside of NC just a giant waste of money. Ohio needs to connect Columbus to I-75 and that's it. Michigan needs to fix all their annoying freeway gaps on their interstate grade us routes. Adding another interstate in WV and that part of kentucky is a waste of time and money. each state has more important transportation needs to tend to.

I actually don't mind the US-23 - US-35 routing, plus the four lane US-35 upgrade in WV. I have used this many times and found it a worthwhile routing. I just don't believe it needs to be an Interstate. If a connection around Delaware connecting US-23 to I-71 can be made that's not too costly, this would work out for Ohio. Spot upgrades to the US-23 corridor in Ohio would be all that's needed. I also like OH-823; this is what I mean for that section of the state.

As for MI, upgrading US-23 to modern standards or better yet 6-laning the freeway would work best, since the state has cancelled the US-223 upgrade. The most that will happen to that route may be a bypass of Blissfield or Adrian, MI and some passing lanes. Even that is a long shot. Upgrading the expressway portion of US-127 is in Michigan's long-term plans, but I'd give a full upgrade to freeway standards a 50-50 chance in the next 20 years.

West Virginia is upgrading their ADHS routes, but at a snail's pace. Plus, those routes are not Interstate standard, just 4 lanes. I believe it makes since to extend I-73 to Martinsville, but after that, nada. OH-32 - US-35 or OH-32 - US-23 - OH -823 - US-52 is what you'll get for I-74 for the next several years.
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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #138 on: February 23, 2021, 01:57:39 PM »

Actually, while replying to this topic about I-73 in MI, I stumbled upon this from earlier in the month: https://www.wlen.com/2021/01/20/virtual-public-meeting-scheduled-for-us-127-us-223-project/

It's a project to repair/rebuild US-127 and US-223 in southern MI. A roundabout will replace the intersection connecting the two routes. But, no four-laning (that I know of), no major upgrades, definitely no Interstate 73 on the table.
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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #139 on: February 23, 2021, 02:46:40 PM »

I doubt the US 127 freeway will ever be extended south of M-50, nor will there ever be a freeway along US 223. If an Interstate 73 were ever constructed in Ohio and Michigan, I'd have it meet Interstate 75 at Findlay, run it north with 75 to Toledo, run it west along the Interstate 80/90 Ohio Turnpike to US 127, then build an interchange just west of the 127 underpass and run a freeway along 127 into Michigan in-route to the existing southern end of the freeway at M-50, and thus onward to Grayling. That would be your Interstate 73 in Michigan.
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roadman65

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #140 on: February 23, 2021, 03:14:42 PM »



I doubt the US 127 freeway will ever be extended south of M-50, nor will there ever be a freeway along US 223. If an Interstate 73 were ever constructed in Ohio and Michigan, I'd have it meet Interstate 75 at Findlay, run it north with 75 to Toledo, run it west along the Interstate 80/90 Ohio Turnpike to US 127, then build an interchange just west of the 127 underpass and run a freeway along 127 into Michigan in-route to the existing southern end of the freeway at M-50, and thus onward to Grayling. That would be your Interstate 73 in Michigan.



In a hundred years maybe after the fallout of this current era change ends, our great grandchildren might think it’s a great idea then.
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TempoNick

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #141 on: March 01, 2021, 04:30:53 PM »

I just wanted to add my two cents worth about I-73.

- First of all, the easier and more relevant connect would be using US 33 south of Columbus to I-77. US 35 is a nice stretch of road east of Chillicothe, but it goes to nothing and then there is the gridlock at the West Virginia border. US 33 at least has the destination city of Athens with Ohio University. It also works better northbound as a connection between Charleston and Columbus.

-From Toledo, another option for I-73 would be to take us US 68 from Findlay straight down to US 33, which is freeway all the way from Bellefontaine to Dublin. It's not as clean as using US 23, but it might be cheaper because purchasing right of way wouldn't be as expensive through there.

-My last comment in favor of I-73 is that it is simply easier to follow an interstate highway than it is to follow a series of US and state routes where the numbers change all the time. Think of what a pain it is driving through I-75, Ohio 15, US 23, Ohio 95, I-71, US 23 again, Ohio 823 and US 52 just to get to Ashland/Huntington. Isn't it simpler for all that to be called I-73? (Provided the roads are in place.)
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 04:34:06 PM by TempoNick »
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SkyPesos

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #142 on: March 01, 2021, 04:39:38 PM »

I just wanted to add my two cents worth about I-73.

- First of all, the easier and more relevant connect would be using US 33 south of Columbus to I-77. US 35 is a nice stretch of road east of Chillicothe, but it goes to nothing and then there is the gridlock at the West Virginia border. US 33 at least has the destination city of Athens with Ohio University. It also works better northbound as a connection between Charleston and Columbus.
WV is finishing their last 4 lane section of US 35 atm, so the only issue left for Columbus-Charleston with US 35 is US 23 between I-270 and Chillicothe.
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wanderer2575

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #143 on: March 01, 2021, 04:45:19 PM »

Actually, while replying to this topic about I-73 in MI, I stumbled upon this from earlier in the month: https://www.wlen.com/2021/01/20/virtual-public-meeting-scheduled-for-us-127-us-223-project/

It's a project to repair/rebuild US-127 and US-223 in southern MI. A roundabout will replace the intersection connecting the two routes. But, no four-laning (that I know of), no major upgrades, definitely no Interstate 73 on the table.

Along with this is a project starting this year to convert the western I-94/US-127 interchange in Jackson from a six-ramp parclo to a diverging diamond -- meaning that when all is said and done, southbound US-127 controlled-access freeway traffic will still need to go through a traffic signal.  That hardly lends itself to a future I-73 status.
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TempoNick

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #144 on: March 01, 2021, 05:58:54 PM »

I just wanted to add my two cents worth about I-73.

- First of all, the easier and more relevant connect would be using US 33 south of Columbus to I-77. US 35 is a nice stretch of road east of Chillicothe, but it goes to nothing and then there is the gridlock at the West Virginia border. US 33 at least has the destination city of Athens with Ohio University. It also works better northbound as a connection between Charleston and Columbus.
WV is finishing their last 4 lane section of US 35 atm, so the only issue left for Columbus-Charleston with US 35 is US 23 between I-270 and Chillicothe.

I drove it two summers ago to Teays Valley from Columbus and I still like US 33 better because it's almost direct to freeway from Columbus (later it isn't, of course), whereas you have to take US 23 which is not freeway up, to Chillicothe. I've gone both ways and I still think US 33 is the better way to Columbus from points South.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 10:56:25 PM by TempoNick »
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silverback1065

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #145 on: March 01, 2021, 06:32:48 PM »

Actually, while replying to this topic about I-73 in MI, I stumbled upon this from earlier in the month: https://www.wlen.com/2021/01/20/virtual-public-meeting-scheduled-for-us-127-us-223-project/

It's a project to repair/rebuild US-127 and US-223 in southern MI. A roundabout will replace the intersection connecting the two routes. But, no four-laning (that I know of), no major upgrades, definitely no Interstate 73 on the table.

Along with this is a project starting this year to convert the western I-94/US-127 interchange in Jackson from a six-ramp parclo to a diverging diamond -- meaning that when all is said and done, southbound US-127 controlled-access freeway traffic will still need to go through a traffic signal.  That hardly lends itself to a future I-73 status.

mdot loves to fuck up their road plans. they fucked up the 94/31 interchange in a similar way
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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #146 on: March 02, 2021, 12:29:03 AM »

In reality, the furthest north I-73 should go is Roanoke.  US 33, US 35, and OH 32 are more than adequate to handle current and short-future traffic for those traveling from Charleston to Columbus, from Charleston to Dayton, or from Charleston to eastern or northern Cincinnati.  US 23, on the other hand, could use spot (upgrade to freeway) improvements between Chillicothe and Columbus and definitely from I-270 north of Columbus past Delaware, although commercial development will prevent that.

We will not see an I-73 in Ohio (or Michigan) in our lifetimes (most of us over 30).  It really is not needed.

As a response to what TempoNick wrote, and, mind you, it is just a different idea, maybe Ohio could sign the proposed I-73 route as a state route, say OH 473, as a "placeholder".  Therefore, a motorist would need to remember only one number.  Maybe it could have a small banner--GLC*--along with it.  ;-)

*-abbreviation for Great Lakes (to the) Coast
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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #147 on: March 02, 2021, 02:35:19 PM »

I doubt the US 127 freeway will ever be extended south of M-50, nor will there ever be a freeway along US 223. If an Interstate 73 were ever constructed in Ohio and Michigan, I'd have it meet Interstate 75 at Findlay, run it north with 75 to Toledo, run it west along the Interstate 80/90 Ohio Turnpike to US 127, then build an interchange just west of the 127 underpass and run a freeway along 127 into Michigan in-route to the existing southern end of the freeway at M-50, and thus onward to Grayling. That would be your Interstate 73 in Michigan.

I would route I-73 over US-127 from Grayling to Lansing, I-96 from Lansing to US-23 at Brighton, and then follow US-23 from Brighton to I-475 in Ohio. Save for the 17-mile section of US-127 between St. Johns and Ithaca (which MDOT plans to eventually upgrade to freeway), the entire route through Michigan exists as freeways that would require minimal spot improvements to receive the I-73 designation.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2021, 05:51:44 PM by abqtraveler »
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TempoNick

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #148 on: March 02, 2021, 05:40:36 PM »


As a response to what TempoNick wrote, and, mind you, it is just a different idea, maybe Ohio could sign the proposed I-73 route as a state route, say OH 473, as a "placeholder".  Therefore, a motorist would need to remember only one number.  Maybe it could have a small banner--GLC*--along with it.  ;-)

*-abbreviation for Great Lakes (to the) Coast

That's not a bad idea, but as you can see, ODOT hasn't exactly been in a hurry to do that to Ohio 161/37/16 East of Columbus. But instead of Ohio 473, let me propose the resurrection of Ohio 1, just for old times sake since it ran concurrent with I-71 while it was being constructed. Ohio 1 could be used to mark the future I-73.

I'm looking at it from the standpoint of the traveling public. Last fall, I drove to Sioux Falls, SD. Normally, I take I-70 to I-74 to get to I-80. this year, I did a little detour and decided to go through Quincy, IL. From there you can get to Des Moines pretty much all the way on four lane US Route divided highway with some freeway segments, but the route numbers change and it kind of makes things confusing. Especially at night.

The other issue is that it's hard for a traveler to know what kind of road they are traveling on. For these secondary roads that are almost freeway quality, I think a different shield is in order. Maybe four lane state/US routes that are divided should have a colored shield.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2021, 05:44:54 PM by TempoNick »
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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #149 on: March 02, 2021, 05:43:31 PM »

One more comment for today. Former Franklin County Engineer John Circle proposed an outer outerbelt from West Jefferson to Marysville to Delaware to Newark or something like that.

If I-73 ever attracts interest again, it would be logical to route it through Newark and connect at US 33 instead of using the current proposed route. (I don't think they would want to route it through West Jefferson because of the Big Darby Creek, but that's another possibility. And then you could continue on US 23 I guess.)

I don't want to encourage any more sprawl around here, but it's happening anyway so you might as well have the proper roads in place.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2021, 05:49:18 PM by TempoNick »
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