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Double Red Arrow

Started by MASTERNC, June 15, 2011, 10:03:05 PM

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MASTERNC

June 15, 2011, 10:03:05 PM  
I have family in Baltimore County and have noticed these signals around the White Marsh Mall area.  Most of these signals are for single left turn lanes (I think one is for double left turn lanes) but there are two red arrows vertically on the same face.  I've also seen them around Hunt Valley and one in Baltimore city.  To me it's kind of redundant, especially when there's only one turn lane.

When traveling to Richmond last year I also noticed the same setup on Henrico County owned roads but not where a state maintained road intersected (example being Parham Road, which had the double red arrows except at the beginning of Chippenham Pkwy and at VA 6).

Anyone else see this arrangement?  I'm surprised that is MUTCD compliant.

Bryant5493

#1
June 15, 2011, 10:48:03 PM  
Check out my YouTube page (http://youtube.com/Bryant5493). I have numerous road videos of Metro Atlanta and other areas in the Southeast.

I just signed up on photobucket -- here's my page (http://s594.photobucket.com/albums/tt24/Bryant5493).

FreewayDan

#2
June 15, 2011, 11:16:11 PM  
There's a lot of these double red arrows down in Texas:

West Panther Creek Drive (southbound) at Woodlands Parkway by FreewayDan, on Flickr

Northbound Gosling Road at Flintridge Drive by FreewayDan, on Flickr

In my opinion, it is a waste to have two red arrows; I think that one red arrow should do just fine.
LEFT ON GREEN
ARROW ONLY

Zmapper

#3
June 15, 2011, 11:26:23 PM  
Are double red arrows only for when there are 2 turn lanes?

Bryant5493

#4
June 16, 2011, 12:12:42 AM  
Quote from: Zmapper on June 15, 2011, 11:26:23 PM
Are double red arrows only for when there are 2 turn lanes?

Not necessarily. I've seen them (two double red arrows) when covering one lane; I've also seen a single left turn arrow covering one lane. Just depends on how the local/state DOT's feeling.


Be well,

Bryant
Check out my YouTube page (http://youtube.com/Bryant5493). I have numerous road videos of Metro Atlanta and other areas in the Southeast.

I just signed up on photobucket -- here's my page (http://s594.photobucket.com/albums/tt24/Bryant5493).

realjd

#5
June 16, 2011, 08:25:09 AM  
I see those most often when I'm in Texas. They seem to be a holdover from when Texas (at least the Dallas area) would use two red balls for a protected-only signal, and one if it had a permissive phase.  They would often be shielded so other traffic couldn't see them, which you still sometimes see with red arrows there.

roadfro

#6
June 16, 2011, 02:29:29 PM  
The MUTCD does not show a figure for double red arrows, except for the specific case of having a steady red arrow and a separate flashing red arrow (which is an application of very limited use).

However, it does show the double circular red, which many states have used for additional emphasis. I would surmise that the MUTCD wouldn't have any qualms over this similar emphasis in using two red arrows. I am more curious as to why states feel the second red arrow (or circular red) is needed, or is still needed.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

hm insulators

#7
June 22, 2011, 12:19:35 PM  
Double red arrow--never even heard of it.
Remember: If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

I'd rather be a child of the road than a son of a ditch.


At what age do you tell a highway that it's been adopted?

WillWeaverRVA

#8
June 25, 2011, 12:52:15 AM  
Quote from: MASTERNC on June 15, 2011, 10:03:05 PM
When traveling to Richmond last year I also noticed the same setup on Henrico County owned roads but not where a state maintained road intersected (example being Parham Road, which had the double red arrows except at the beginning of Chippenham Pkwy and at VA 6).

Double red arrows or double red lights seems to be a Henrico County standard. We do a lot of weird things. :P
Will Weaver
WillWeaverRVA Photography | Twitter

"But how will the oxen know where to drown if we renumber the Oregon Trail?" - NE2

US71

#9
June 27, 2011, 05:14:32 PM  
I've seen them in Texas, though double red ball seems more common


Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

roadman65

#10
November 10, 2011, 07:23:34 PM  
North Carolina uses double ball red left turn signals.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

MASTERNC

#11
March 02, 2012, 11:00:38 PM  
Found a response from a Maryland SHA official on the FHWA forums

QuoteBaltimore County and Baltimore City use a protected-only signal with dual-red
arrows. They use only one signal, even for dual-left turn lanes. The MUTCD
does not specify whether such a signal can be used, but as stated before: if
dual circular red is allowed, why not dual red arrows?

Alps

#12
March 03, 2012, 02:29:18 AM  
Quote from: MASTERNC on March 02, 2012, 11:00:38 PM
Found a response from a Maryland SHA official on the FHWA forums

QuoteBaltimore County and Baltimore City use a protected-only signal with dual-red
arrows. They use only one signal, even for dual-left turn lanes. The MUTCD
does not specify whether such a signal can be used, but as stated before: if
dual circular red is allowed, why not dual red arrows?
Dual red arrows are ok, but you need two of each phase.

abc2VE

#13
March 03, 2012, 08:45:24 PM  
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