4 lane undivided freeways

[ethanman62187]

Please consider that the last time we talk about this, it was part of the topic on 2 lane freeways. Can anyone think on a 4 lane undivided freeway? 

[empirestate]

I recall that I-90 in part of Montana used to be this way.

[nexus73]

SR 22 going east from Salem OR was undivided freeway years ago.  I wonder if it still is?

Rick

[kurumi]

Related thread: Super-4 freeways

Here's CT 2 at CT 214 in Ledyard:

[Bickendan]

SR 22 going east from Salem OR was undivided freeway years ago.  I wonder if it still is?

Rick

It's divided now. OR 18 might still have a Super-4 segment.

[bugo]

There's a stretch of US 271/Texas Loop (whatever) in Paris, TX that is a super 4.

There's a short stretch of the Clinton, MO bypass that is a super 4.

[roadfro]

Can anyone think on a 4 lane undivided freeway? 

By definition, a freeway is a divided highway...

[ethanman62187]

Can anyone think on a 4 lane undivided freeway? 

By definition, a freeway is a divided highway...

Well, some freeways are not like that. Because of the cost, it has to be undivided as be first stage, than the next will be a full divided freeway.
Post Merge: October 03, 2011, 11:00:24 PM
Here's CT 2 at CT 214 in Ledyard

Speed limit please
Post Merge: December 31, 1969, 06:59:59 PM
I forgot to tell you the speed limit for those roads.

[3467]

The cost of a crash or jersey barrier is minimal to other contruction costs . That is why a full acess control undivided road is very very rare. One with partial or uncontrolled access would have to be undivided at those points.
I also dont see any reason not to discuss unusual designs. This is a road geek site

[roadfro]

Can anyone think on a 4 lane undivided freeway? 

By definition, a freeway is a divided highway...

Well, some freeways are not like that. Because of the cost, it has to be undivided as be first stage, than the next will be a full divided freeway.

The definition of "freeway" is "a divided highway with full control of access". 'Divided' in this sense can be something like a wide median or a simple Jersey barrier. 'Full control of access' means a controlled-access highway where crossroads are separated by bridges and entrance/exit from the highway is via ramps at interchanges.

If you're talking about situations such as the picture previously posted by kurumi, that is not technically a freeway--although it is easy to see how it could be described as such. It can be more adequately described as a "Super-4 expressway".

[NE2]

The definition of "freeway" is "a divided highway with full control of access".

Says who? Not Caltrans: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=santa+barbara,+ca&hl=en&ll=34.451953,-119.761791&spn=0.007909,0.020599&hnear=Santa+Barbara,+California&gl=us&t=k&z=17&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=34.451622,-119.761892&panoid=jbk3XA3kOJoDjM7DmQ1leA&cbp=12,273.91,,0,7.08

[agentsteel53]

there are some segments of US-101 in very far northern CA which are like this. 

I-5 along the Rogue River in Oregon was like this until recently.

[myosh_tino]

According to the California Vehicle Code (CVC) Section 332...

"Freeway" is a highway in respect to which the owners of abutting lands have no right or easement of access to or from their abutting lands or in respect to which such owners have only limited or restricted right or easement of access.

So technically, any roadway, divided or not, that is fully access-controlled is a freeway by definition in California so the segment of CA-154 noted by NE2 is, in fact, a freeway.

[NE2]

According to the California Vehicle Code (CVC) Section 332...

"Freeway" is a highway in respect to which the owners of abutting lands have no right or easement of access to or from their abutting lands or in respect to which such owners have only limited or restricted right or easement of access.

So technically, any roadway, divided or not, that is fully access-controlled is a freeway by definition in California so the segment of CA-154 noted by NE2 is, in fact, a freeway.

Technically that would also include expressways.

[myosh_tino]

Technically that would also include expressways.

No, expressways have their own CVC definition...

Expressway

314.  An "expressway" is a portion of highway that is part of either of the following:

(a) An expressway system established by a county under Section 941.4 of the Streets and Highways Code.

(b) An expressway system established by a county before January 1, 1989, as described in subdivision (g) of Section 941.4 of the Streets and Highways Code.
Added Sec. 17, Ch. 615, Stats. 2004. Effective January 1, 2005.

Besides the above definition, California's expressways are, for the most part, not fully access-controlled.

[NE2]

Besides the above definition, California's expressways are, for the most part, not fully access-controlled.

Fine, but any fully access-controlled expressway would meet the definition of freeway. I don't know if this was the intent of the legislature, and it really doesn't make a difference in the real world.

[Scott5114]

Who gives a shit what the legal definition of a freeway is? As a roadgeek you should be able to know what a freeway is when you see it, and know when something's borderline. It doesn't have to match a definition that some crotchety Special Senate Joint House Standing Executive Legislative Committee For Road Definitions, Smorgasbord Regulations, Boat Wrestling, and Telephone Pole Length Restrictions has published.

[NE2]

As a roadgeek you should be able to know what a freeway is when you see it, and know when something's borderline.

No true roadgeek...

[realjd]

Who gives a shit what the legal definition of a freeway is? As a roadgeek you should be able to know what a freeway is when you see it, and know when something's borderline. It doesn't have to match a definition that some crotchety Special Senate Joint House Standing Executive Legislative Committee For Road Definitions, Smorgasbord Regulations, Boat Wrestling, and Telephone Pole Length Restrictions has published.

Watch it! Boat Wrestling is serious business!

[agentsteel53]

Who gives a shit what the legal definition of a freeway is? As a roadgeek you should be able to know what a freeway is when you see it, and know when something's borderline. It doesn't have to match a definition that some crotchety Special Senate Joint House Standing Executive Legislative Committee For Road Definitions, Smorgasbord Regulations, Boat Wrestling, and Telephone Pole Length Restrictions has published.

Watch it! Boat Wrestling is serious business!

nah I think it's the Telephone Pole Length lobby you don't want to fuck with.  they must be pretty important - they send me like 80 emails a day telling me how I can increase the length of my telephone pole.

[myosh_tino]

Fine, but any fully access-controlled expressway would meet the definition of freeway. I don't know if this was the intent of the legislature, and it really doesn't make a difference in the real world.

Perhaps I should clarify.  Within California you will NOT find any fully access-controlled expressways because they are already classified as freeways.  The term "expressway" has different meanings in different parts of the country.

As a roadgeek you should be able to know what a freeway is when you see it

I agree with you 100% Scott.  IMO, that segment of CA-154 in Santa Barbara is NOT a freeway in my book.  In fact, in any undivided road should not be considered a "freeway".

[agentsteel53]

As a roadgeek you should be able to know what a freeway is when you see it

I agree with you 100% Scott.  IMO, that segment of CA-154 in Santa Barbara is NOT a freeway in my book.  In fact, in any undivided road should not be considered a "freeway".

I disagree, because - divider or not - the usage is identical.  Multiple lanes in each direction, limited access.  Sounds like a freeway to me.

the divider is a safety feature.  it is like classifying something as not being a freeway because it lacks railings on a bridge.  sure, it might not be interstate standard, but it is still a freeway.

[bugo]

As a roadgeek you should be able to know what a freeway is when you see it

I agree with you 100% Scott.  IMO, that segment of CA-154 in Santa Barbara is NOT a freeway in my book.  In fact, in any undivided road should not be considered a "freeway".

I disagree, because - divider or not - the usage is identical.  Multiple lanes in each direction, limited access.  Sounds like a freeway to me.

the divider is a safety feature.  it is like classifying something as not being a freeway because it lacks railings on a bridge.  sure, it might not be interstate standard, but it is still a freeway.

Are there any roads or driveways that intersect this stretch of highway?  If not, it's a freeway.

[froggie]

I disagree, because - divider or not - the usage is identical.  Multiple lanes in each direction, limited access.  Sounds like a freeway to me.

Are you referring to this CA 154 example specifically?

[agentsteel53]

Are you referring to this CA 154 example specifically?

I don't recall the 154 offhand - I was just speaking in general.  does the 154 not meet one of the criteria?