School Speed Limits

[Michael]

A couple comments from CNY:

Within the past 5 years or so, Auburn has reconstructed the major streets in the city  During the reconstruction, they installed flashing lights in the school zones (formerly just signs with "Speed Limit 20/8 AM-3PM") which I like because they're "smart".  They're on from 8 AM to 3 PM, and are even programmed to not flash on something as small as a 3 day weekend for the school.

The high school on Lake Ave has no speed zone at all, and it's normally 30 MPH southbound/40 MPH northbound (I don't know why there's two different speed limits; the 40 is closer to the school building, and the 30 jumps to 40 for about 1000 feet until a traffic circle).

This summer, the city installed "End School Zone" signs.  I assumed this was to comply with the 2009 MUTCD, but never looked until just now.  My assumption was correct.

Within the past year, school speed limit signs have been installed on NY 326, just west of Auburn for BOCES, a vocational school for juniors and seniors.  The BOCES was built in 2007, so I don't know why they waited this long.  That stretch drops from 55 to 40 for about a half mile, but the 55 segment is so short anyway (6/10 mile between a 50 MPH zone [which seems hind of pointless, why not 55?] and a four-way stop), that it seems pointless to get to 55 MPH.  Here's a link to Street View of the BOCES (the speed limit signs weren't there when it was taken).

In Cato, there's a 35 MPH zone (normally 45) with times (I don't know the hours), along NY 370. (elementary school Street View, middle/high school Street View)  There's a curve just west of the middle/high school that I'd recommend taking at 35-40 anyway (no advisory speed).

Weedsport Jr/Sr High (middle/high school) has a 20 MPH zone, but is quite far from the road (Street View)  I think it's just a speed limit sign with no times.  An interesting note about this area is that the school entrance is literally on the village line, so this is normally a 55 to 30 reduction. The 55 zone is on the right in Street View.
Side note: The speed reduction for westbound traffic is about 360 feet to the east of the school entrance, but the end of the 30 zone for eastbound traffic is about 1000 feet (not a typo) east.

[Takumi]

At Richard Bland College near Petersburg, the speed limit within the school zone is 25. The school zone is the boundaries of the college property from before the dorms were added in 2008. On Johnson Road, the north-south road that passes through the property, the speed limit is normally 45, and the college boundaries expand well north and south of the buildings and parking lots due to two large groves on its east side, so nobody really abided it until they got to the parking lots and crosswalks. The dorms are on Carson Drive, the road that is used to access the college from the west, and are just west of the school zone in a short 35 MPH section.

[thenetwork]

At Richard Bland College near Petersburg, the speed limit within the school zone is 25.

I have never heard of a state that includes Colleges or Universities with K-12 schools for the category of School Zone!!!

[BlueNacho]

The most useless school speed limit I ever saw was at a boarding school. The kids are driven by parents from far away and the amount of children walking to nearby locations is very little.

[Takumi]

At Richard Bland College near Petersburg, the speed limit within the school zone is 25.

I have never heard of a state that includes Colleges or Universities with K-12 schools for the category of School Zone!!!

The reason is that the roads going through the college have several crosswalks across them, and during daytime classes they're heavily used.

[WillWeaverRVA]

At Richard Bland College near Petersburg, the speed limit within the school zone is 25.

I have never heard of a state that includes Colleges or Universities with K-12 schools for the category of School Zone!!!

Richard Bland is also a community college, and it's a very open campus (the road quite literally runs through the center of the campus), so school zones/reduced speed limits are absolutely necessary. I believe Johnson Road (the road that bisects the campus and has several crosswalks) is a 2-lane road and has a 55 mph speed limit otherwise.

[Takumi]

You're partially right. It has a 55 MPH speed limit in Prince George, but it drops to 45 at the county line just south of the campus and stays that way until it reaches Petersburg city limits. (Also, it's a junior college, which is slightly different from a community college, but I digress.)

[formulanone]

Figured this was a worthy topic for re-discussion (but not a new thread), as it was on CNN this morning. I suppose it was brought to their attention from The Oakland Press in Michigan.



Jalopnik said it best: This is the Worst School Zone in History.

(waits for an "At Least It's Not Clearview" comment...)

[1995hoo]

That sign is a perfect example of why I prefer the style used around my area with the two yellow lights and the notation that the reduced limit applies only when the lights are flashing.

[tdindy88]

At least it's...naw, just kidding. But I saw this too and found a follow-up article from the Pontiac, Michigan newspaper that had reported this, the times have been simplified. It's now just 6:49 to 9:07 in the morning and 2:03 to 4:29 in the afternoon. I wonder why such the random times, does the school district want me to be looking at the clock in my car instead of the kids? And better yet, do kids really wait until 6:49 to line the roads around this school and not at 6:48?

Here's the article: http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2012/02/16/news/local_news/doc4f3d4a6816921091129912.txt

[signalman]

And who says everyone's clocks, watches, cell phones, etc are all synchronized?  I may have 6:47 in my car and the cop watching traffic has 6:50.  I find these times that are down to the exact minute as a way to boost ticket revenue.

[empirestate]

[This post, and others after it, were split from the "Worst of Road Signs" thread, referring to the same sign discussed above. -S.]

That's why I've always preferred "When children are present". That way you don't need to carry a school district calendar around with you.

In NYC, school days include those where the faculty, but not the students, are in attendance. That's more for parking purposes than for speed zones, however.

[hbelkins]

Kentucky signs its school speed zones with flashing yellow lights. The limit is in effect only when the lights are flashing.

[mightyace]

Tennessee does both.  Most get lights but in lower traffic areas (read rural roads) the "When Children are Present" sign is used instead.

[Central Avenue]

Ohio (from what I've seen, at least) tends to use "during restricted hours" instead of "when children are present." It's annoyingly vague.

[ctsignguy]

Ohio (from what I've seen, at least) tends to use "during restricted hours" instead of "when children are present." It's annoyingly vague.

All the better to issue speeding tickets with! Vague enough for a good speed cop to massage 'restricted hours' in his favor....

[deathtopumpkins]

I've never understood why any state would use anything other than flashing lights. They catch drivers' attention AND are entirely unambiguous. Just so much simpler, especially for drivers who aren't from around the area and thus don't know about local schools.

[empirestate]

I've never understood why any state would use anything other than flashing lights. They catch drivers' attention AND are entirely unambiguous. Just so much simpler, especially for drivers who aren't from around the area and thus don't know about local schools.

Probably cost, and in those cases where schools themselves are required to contribute to that cost, their reluctance to do so.

On a related note, how does the sign know when to flash? Does it have a pre-programmed school calendar in it? If so, how accurate can we expect it to be, given the changeability of school calendars through the year and from building to building, district to district? Or does the janitor just flip it on and off each morning and afternoon? 

[OracleUsr]

The ones I've seen run on a timer of some sort and only on Monday-Friday, but there is no regard for holidays or school break.

Still, it's better than nothing.

[mightyace]

^^^

Hopefully, new ones can be equipped with calendars.  But, they'd still need some kind of data link to know about snow days and other unplanned changes in schedule.

[agentsteel53]

there i$ absolutely no incentive for the municipality to make exception$ for $ummer, weekend$, holiday$, $now day$, etc.

[mightyace]

The point i$ taken. 

[vtk]

The flashing school zones around here usually seem to be aware of scheduled breaks and holidays.  On snow days, they'll still flash, but if it's snowy enough to close school then maybe you shouldn't be going much faster than 20MPH anyway.

It seems the school districts do indeed pay for the flashers.  Some of Hilliard's newer schools didn't have them until the district could afford them (a lag of a couple of years).

[roadfro]

I've never understood why any state would use anything other than flashing lights. They catch drivers' attention AND are entirely unambiguous. Just so much simpler, especially for drivers who aren't from around the area and thus don't know about local schools.

Static signs are far cheaper to install and are less of a maintenance issue. Fairly common practice in urban areas of Nevada is to use flashing beacons for school zones on arterial roads and major collector streets, but use static signs only with specific times (or, in the Las Vegas area, "When Children are Present" message) on minor collectors and neighborhood streets.

On a related note, how does the sign know when to flash? Does it have a pre-programmed school calendar in it? If so, how accurate can we expect it to be, given the changeability of school calendars through the year and from building to building, district to district? Or does the janitor just flip it on and off each morning and afternoon? 

Newer flashing beacons operate on a pre-programmed calendar. Some I've seen in Nevada are programmed specifically enough such that the beacon will not flash on staff development days (school days where students have the day off but teachers are present for in-service sessions). Some can even be controlled or programmed remotely.

[empirestate]

Nice! Although the existence of such technology is decidedly ho-hum (this being 2012 and all), the fact that it actually got selected and installed by some bureaucracy is pretty darned exceptional!

(I'm from the interior Northeast, where circumspection and municipal foresight pretty well died out in the early 70s, shortly after it pretty well gutted our major cities, for those of you incredulous at my incredulity...)