MUTCD gripes

[hotdogPi]

Has anyone noted how Caltrans is approaching this particular issue?  I can't wait to see what wacko arrangement they come up with.

To them, "above" will mean "30 feet above on a separate sign".

[Zeffy]

To them, "above" will mean "30 feet above on a separate sign".

If Caltrans won't even adapt external exit tabs I doubt they would put a LEFT banner anywhere but in the exit tab itself.

[roadfro]

Has anyone noted how Caltrans is approaching this particular issue?  I can't wait to see what wacko arrangement they come up with.

Caltrans has actually gotten close to FHWA requirements with some left exits. They have spec'd out a left exit with internal tab, using a yellow left banner above the exit and number text. See this thread in the Pacific Southwest board (2 examples): https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=9700.0

Also, on the new Bay Bridge, Caltrans did something more like what is suggested in this thread, they put the yellow "left" message to the left of the exit text (although in separate 'tabs'). See this post: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=8865.msg240157#msg240157

[myosh_tino]

To expand on roadfro's post, here are drawings from the two linked-to topics that I made based on either a Caltrans signing plan (CA-55) or a photo (Treasure Island)...





While the first exit sign attempts to mimic the left exit tab mandated by the 2009 MUTCD, I find the second sign to me more visibly appealing.

[SignBridge]

I'd apparently been on that Calif. thread, but I'd forgotten. LOL Anyway, those signs are better than I expected for Caltrans, though the Newport Beach sign is kind of crowded, in true California style. Myosh, how about being a sport and adding the word "exit" to the "only" panel? (chuckle!)

[myosh_tino]

I'd apparently been on that Calif. thread, but I'd forgotten. LOL Anyway, those signs are better than I expected for Caltrans, though the Newport Beach sign is kind of crowded, in true California style. Myosh, how about being a sport and adding the word "exit" to the "only" panel? (chuckle!)

There are a lot of issues with that CA-55 sign including the oversized "SOUTH" (20-inch "S", 16-inch "OUTH") and the 26-inch "ONLY" panel.  The 26-inch panel is a new spec that came out around 2009 and, in theory, should accommodate a 45-degree up-and-right arrow within the panel.  The problem is, on a 120-inch tall guide sign, it tends to crowd the sign.

[Revive 755]

New gripe:  If I'm doing a signing plan for an intersection improvement which involves adding a second dedicated left turn lane to the stem of a T intersection and want an advanced lane usage sign, there is not a nationally defined code for that sign.  So if I'm designing for a state that doesn't have a good sign manual and need to use the code for a table or a backup in case a scan comes outs badly, I am out of luck.  I could borrow the code for a similar sign in another state, but the coding isn't consistent from state to state; the applicable code is R3-30ABLA in Minnesota, R61-13 for California, and probably something else in a few other states.  It would be really helpful for the next version of the national MUTCD to have more signs with codes for the various possibly lane configurations.

Alternatively, the next MUTCD could adopt a way of coding such signs in which the code indicates the lane configuration the sign is showing. A couple possibilities:
* For the stem of a T-intersection with one dedicated left turn lane and a single dedicated right turn lane, use Rx-1L1R
* For the current R3-8b (left turn, straight, and right turn lane) - Rx-1L1T1R
* For an approach with a left turn lane, a shared through-right and a dedicated right turn lane - Rx-1L1TR1R
* For an approach with a double left turn lane (also showing a U-turn), three through lanes, and a right turn lane - Rx-1LU1L3T1R

[SignBridge]

Myosh, I just looked at your last post again. Re: the 45-degree arrow in the yellow panel, New York State DOT is using the Type-B (short-stem) arrow for that. It fits nicely in the panel, better than the arrow used in the illustrations in the Manual.

[DaBigE]

New gripe:  If I'm doing a signing plan for an intersection improvement which involves adding a second dedicated left turn lane to the stem of a T intersection and want an advanced lane usage sign, there is not a nationally defined code for that sign.  So if I'm designing for a state that doesn't have a good sign manual and need to use the code for a table or a backup in case a scan comes outs badly, I am out of luck.  I could borrow the code for a similar sign in another state, but the coding isn't consistent from state to state; the applicable code is R3-30ABLA in Minnesota, R61-13 for California, and probably something else in a few other states.  It would be really helpful for the next version of the national MUTCD to have more signs with codes for the various possibly lane configurations.

Alternatively, the next MUTCD could adopt a way of coding such signs in which the code indicates the lane configuration the sign is showing. A couple possibilities:
* For the stem of a T-intersection with one dedicated left turn lane and a single dedicated right turn lane, use Rx-1L1R
* For the current R3-8b (left turn, straight, and right turn lane) - Rx-1L1T1R
* For an approach with a left turn lane, a shared through-right and a dedicated right turn lane - Rx-1L1TR1R
* For an approach with a double left turn lane (also showing a U-turn), three through lanes, and a right turn lane - Rx-1LU1L3T1R

I've run into that issue as well, so I know where you're coming from. But you also have to remember how many possible combinations there are especially when you throw roundabouts into the mix. At the rate the feds are working, it would probably take two editions of the MUTCD for them to have a complete list. You would also have to have some kind of prefix for signs that use fishhook-style arrows. And even then, you would always end up with some unique situation that still requires a custom sign (an odd skew, skew on a five+ legged intersection, etc.).

I think you would be better off having a single letter for each type of movement, to avoid 4-lane+ signs having a code a mile long. Attach a letter to the end of the R3 prefix to denote a roundabout (with the dot), R, or a fishhook arrow, F. For the suffix, something like:
A=left, B=thru, C=right, D=U-turn, then use lower-case letters to denote shared movement lanes. The capital letter of the suffix would always indicate the new lane. For example, a roundabout with the "dotted" arrows, 2-lane approach, left+thru and thru+right would be: R3R-AbBc. With traditional arrows: R3-AbBc. A roundabout, 2-lane approach, left and left+thru+right would be: R3R-AAbc