Splitting states

[jbnv]

The capitals should be relatively near to the center.
For Cahuenga, which appears to stretch from Lompoc to San Diego, Santa Barbara is too far north.  The capital should be somewhere in OC.
For Mojave, I have similar issues with Indo being too far south.   How about the town of Mojave?

Cahuenga: Riverside?
Mojave: Barstow?

[DTComposer]

Yes, sorry, back on topic. I don't agree with the Six States plan, but if I were to draw the boundaries, ignoring county lines, here's what I would do:


With the exception of Sacramento, I placed the capitals at cities that were significant population centers, but not the dominant city of each region.

It's fine to pick cities other than the largest for capitals, as that's what most states do.  But the capitals should be relatively near to the center.

For Cahuenga, which appears to stretch from Lompoc to San Diego, Santa Barbara is too far north.  The capital should be somewhere in OC.

I gave some thought to the concept of centrally located capitals. But it would seem as many states fail that test as pass it; plus, size-wise Cahuenga would be comparable to the New England states, so even end-to-end distance is not that significant. Plus, Santa Barbara has the potential to host some beautiful state buildings in line with their architectural style (see their County Courthouse).

Finally, I did not want the capital to be anywhere in the LA/OC urban area, again to get it away from the influence of that region.

All that said, and homerism aside, I could see the capital in Long Beach, which has the infrastructure to handle a slew of new office buildings, and I could see a stunning capital building on the ocean.

Riverside could be another option, as could Irvine (although that's a little office-parky for my taste).

For Mojave, I have similar issues with Indo being too far south.   How about the town of Mojave?

The town of Mojave is even less centrally located than Indio is...it would be right along the western border, just north of Lancaster.

It should be noted that, while geographically, Mojave would be a larger state, over 90% of the population lives in the arc that is the border with Cahuenga. As far as population distribution goes, Indio's pretty well centered.

[kkt]

For Jefferson, Eureka would be pretty isolated.  299 and 101 are both pretty slow roads and the largest trucks are not allowed on parts of them.  Eureka has expensive real estate due to its natural beauty.  I'd go with either Redding or the town of Mt. Shasta as capital.

[andy3175]

The town of Mojave is even less centrally located than Indio is...it would be right along the western border, just north of Lancaster.

Notably, Mojave is not even currently incorporated as a city or town, so if it were to become a state capital, it would probably have to be elevated to that type of status (depending of course on how the new state's constitution would be written). I'm not sure if any of the existing state capitals are unincorporated. I know there are unincorporated county seats out there ...

[J N Winkler]

Notably, Mojave is not even currently incorporated as a city or town, so if it were to become a state capital, it would probably have to be elevated to that type of status (depending of course on how the new state's constitution would be written). I'm not sure if any of the existing state capitals are unincorporated. I know there are unincorporated county seats out there ...

Kansas state law includes a provision for automatic incorporation of county seats even if they do not meet the minimum population threshold (300 people for a third-class city).  Other states may have similar get-out clauses, though I am not sure if California is one of them.  (The usual rule of thumb is that when a political jurisdiction splits, or is created out of another, it inherits the statute law of the parent jurisdiction.  This means that if California were split, the individual fragments would inherit the California codes.)  The CDP of Mojave, California also has a population of more than 4,000, which should be comfortably above any reasonable incorporation minima.

Another potential fly in the ointment:  state capitals that are not also county seats (Lansing, Michigan, is apparently the only current example).

[cpzilliacus]

Another potential fly in the ointment:  state capitals that are not also county seats (Lansing, Michigan, is apparently the only current example).

Richmond, Virginia is not a county seat, in large part because Richmond is not part of any county.  Like all other Virginia municipalities incorporated as cities, it is independent of the two adjoining counties, Chesterfield and Henrico (though for some years after it became an independent city in the 1870's, Richmond remained the county seat of Henrico County even though it was not part of the county - the same arrangement exists in several (other) Virginia counties and cities to this day).

[empirestate]

Another potential fly in the ointment:  state capitals that are not also county seats (Lansing, Michigan, is apparently the only current example).

Richmond, Virginia is not a county seat, in large part because Richmond is not part of any county.  Like all other Virginia municipalities incorporated as cities, it is independent of the two adjoining counties, Chesterfield and Henrico (though for some years after it became an independent city in the 1870's, Richmond remained the county seat of Henrico County even though it was not part of the county - the same arrangement exists in several (other) Virginia counties and cities to this day).

And don't forget Juneau, Hartford, Providence and Baton Rouge.

[Alps]

While looking at some colonial history today (long story... it started with some curiosity about Long Island geography, brought about by looking at NYC freeway density), I discovered that Massachusetts actually merged with Plymouth as two separate colonies in the late 1600s. The colony of Plymouth is basically Barnstable, Bristol, and Plymouth Counties today, minus the later acquisitions of Hingham and Hull. Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard were actually two separate colonies, also amalgamated into the whole Commonwealth.
So I thought, what if Plymouth remained a separate state? Presumably it would absorb the two island colonies, and would not have taken over Hingham and Hull. The total land area would be larger than Delaware and twice as large as Rhode Island. In theory, PL and RI could have merged (Rhode Island and Plymouth and Providence Plantations?), but would still not catch up to CT.

Consequence #1: I don't think Plymouth would have remained its own capital. I'm going to go with New Bedford for this.

Consequence #2: As a separate state, the 1926 US Highway numbering would probably have given it US 3 instead of MA/PL 3, and the 1956 Interstate numbering would have sent a 2di or two down this way. I-195 would have been I-84. This may or may not have influenced CT and RI to agree to complete the freeway as originally planned. If not, the eastern I-84 could have become I-82. Also, I-93 would have been multiplexed with I-95 through Boston (per original plan) and then down MA 3, quite possibly extending along the US 6 freeway for as long as it's four lanes. There may have been a freeway connection from I-86 to I-93, instead of the two surface streets on either side of the canal. The crossings would have been paid more attention, perhaps with a new bridge or at least with a twinning of the existing one(s).


Consequence #3: More 3di's serving the state. New Bedford's MA 140 would be I-186. Fall River's MA 24 would be I-286.

[oscar]

Another potential fly in the ointment:  state capitals that are not also county seats (Lansing, Michigan, is apparently the only current example).

Richmond, Virginia is not a county seat, in large part because Richmond is not part of any county.  Like all other Virginia municipalities incorporated as cities, it is independent of the two adjoining counties, Chesterfield and Henrico (though for some years after it became an independent city in the 1870's, Richmond remained the county seat of Henrico County even though it was not part of the county - the same arrangement exists in several (other) Virginia counties and cities to this day).

And don't forget Juneau, Hartford, Providence and Baton Rouge.

Add in Carson City, another independent city/state capital.

But Juneau is a combined city-borough, with the city the seat of the borough.

[jbnv]

In the vein of "What if they had divided the states this way instead of what way," I am pondering West Florida.

[empirestate]

And don't forget Juneau, Hartford, Providence and Baton Rouge.

Add in Carson City, another independent city/state capital.

But Juneau is a combined city-borough, with the city the seat of the borough.

Of the borough, yes, not of a county, just as Baton Rouge is the seat of its parish, not of a county. Hartford and Providence are in counties but aren't their seats, which those states no longer have.

But yes, Carson City as well–in short, there are lots of capitals that aren't also county seats! :-)

[myosh_tino]

For what it's worth, here's a map showing the proposed Six California split...



I think six states is a bit extreme but I can see California being divided into 3 states...

* California - Combine proposed North and Central California with Silicon Valley minus Kern County.
* South California - Combine proposed West and South California plus Kern County.
* Jefferson - Remains as proposed in the above map although it's possible that some of the southern counties may become part of California if they wish.

[hotdogPi]

I still want a state called Alta California, to go along with Mexico's Baja California.

[Pete from Boston]

While looking at some colonial history today (long story... it started with some curiosity about Long Island geography, brought about by looking at NYC freeway density), I discovered that Massachusetts actually merged with Plymouth as two separate colonies in the late 1600s.

Massachusetts Bay, to be exact.  The "Bay" was only dropped with statehood, but is particularly used in reference to the pre-merger colony.

The colony of Plymouth is basically Barnstable, Bristol, and Plymouth Counties today, minus the later acquisitions of Hingham and Hull. Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard were actually two separate colonies, also amalgamated into the whole Commonwealth.

Nantucket and the Vineyard were actually Dukes County, New York (the Duke presumably being the Duke of York who acquired them). 

They were added separately into the new Province of Massachusetts Bay created from Massachusetts Bay Colony and Plymouth Colony in 1692 after the dissolution of the Dominion of New England, a resented and short-lived unified New England government.

Far more unnecessary but interesting detail can be found in the countless local histories of this region now online. 

It is a cool artifact that one can see the 17th century dividing line between defunct colonies in modern county lines, just as is the case in New Jersey (where East and West Jersey were combined).

So I thought, what if Plymouth remained a separate state? Presumably it would absorb the two island colonies, and would not have taken over Hingham and Hull. The total land area would be larger than Delaware and twice as large as Rhode Island. In theory, PL and RI could have merged (Rhode Island and Plymouth and Providence Plantations?), but would still not catch up to CT.

Consequence #1: I don't think Plymouth would have remained its own capital. I'm going to go with New Bedford for this.

Consequence #2: As a separate state, the 1926 US Highway numbering would probably have given it US 3 instead of MA/PL 3, and the 1956 Interstate numbering would have sent a 2di or two down this way. I-195 would have been I-84. This may or may not have influenced CT and RI to agree to complete the freeway as originally planned. If not, the eastern I-84 could have become I-82. Also, I-93 would have been multiplexed with I-95 through Boston (per original plan) and then down MA 3, quite possibly extending along the US 6 freeway for as long as it's four lanes. There may have been a freeway connection from I-86 to I-93, instead of the two surface streets on either side of the canal. The crossings would have been paid more attention, perhaps with a new bridge or at least with a twinning of the existing one(s).


Consequence #3: More 3di's serving the state. New Bedford's MA 140 would be I-186. Fall River's MA 24 would be I-286.

This makes me wonder what the economy of Plymouth would be like. Tourist money from the Cape on one hand, but fallen whaling/textile cities on the other.  I have a feeling casinos would have arrived in that region much sooner.

[Roadgeekteen]

If I was to split up Massachusetts, Worcester County and west would become a new state with Springfield as a capital. Maybe make the Cape and Islands their own state.

(sorry for the bump...)

[webny99]

(sorry for the bump...)

Well, if you're going to do it, don't do it and then immediately apologize. Just own it! 




As for my own state, I would divide in two along the 42nd parallel, or if there was a pressing need to use county lines, then I'd use the northern boundaries of Sullivan, Ulster, and Dutchess counties.

[tolbs17]

This reminds me of the Marf's region split up.

Western North Carolina feels so different. Maybe that could get split up

Also, North and South Jersey feel the same way... Those could break up into two states.

[kkt]

(sorry for the bump...)

Well, if you're going to do it, don't do it and then immediately apologize. Just own it! 

[texaskdog]

Let's combine some while were at it.  Do we need two Dakotas?
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/58809/us-map-redrawn-50-states-equal-population

[kevinb1994]

Let's combine some while were at it.  Do we need two Dakotas?
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/58809/us-map-redrawn-50-states-equal-population

There was a cartoon episode that mentioned the subject matter. Don't remember which cartoon it was, though.

[Roadgeekteen]

Let's combine some while were at it.  Do we need two Dakotas?
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/58809/us-map-redrawn-50-states-equal-population

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=24254.msg2386933#msg2386933

[kkt]

Let's combine some while were at it.  Do we need two Dakotas?
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/58809/us-map-redrawn-50-states-equal-population

Too bad the link to the larger version of the map is broken.  I would be nice to be able to read which cities are in which new states.

There were two Dakotas only so Republicans would be appointing 4 senators instead of 2, and 6 electoral college votes instead of 3.

Democrats should not shy away from getting DC represented the same as a state and admitting Puerto Rico.  Politics is a rough game and if you play like gentlemen you will lose.

[Angelo71]

While we are at it, To make borders not lines, Virginia should own northern N.C., owning WV, Maryland, Delaware, D.C., and southern PA. Erie should exist with all of western and central Pennsylvania besides Pittsburgh.

[I-55]

Probably been mentioned but worth mentioning again if so:

Chicagoland from the rest of Illinois. Maybe split Central/Southern Illinois into the surrounding states.

[Angelo71]

If my Virginia will never exist, Delmarva needs to happen!