Traffic signal

[jakeroot]

Mast arm attached to concrete 294 underpass near O'Hare.

Any other installs like this?

I can only think of examples for ramp meters in my area. Example with only post-mounted signals in Bellevue, WA. This isn't the same, however, as it is mounted vertically as though it were a post-mounted meter.

[interstatefan990]

Thought I'd share- this traffic light at the Danbury Fair Mall in Connecticut has a signal head pointing towards a parking lot approach...that has no access to the intersection. Don't know if it was installed by CTDOT or the mall, but boy, wonder how that one happened.

I would assume that's for pedestrians, has nothing to do with the parking lot

Pedestrians? It's a T-intersection right in front of a mall, after that the exit options are ramps to US-7/I-84 or making a left/right onto Backus Ave, which just takes you to more stores (no sidewalk). No matter where you go, it doesn't seem like a place for pedestrians, and crossing straight from there, you'd be heading towards a large intersection with no marked crosswalks or pedestrian signals. Also, I'm aware it has nothing to do with the parking lot, I'm just saying the layout of it makes it look like it does.

It is fairly common practice in CT where there are no pedestrian crosswalk signals for T intersections or where split phasing is used

https://goo.gl/maps/Hu6zqeoJzBhd4LVB6 old setup with signal towards field
https://goo.gl/maps/ayD2KcYVPZ1GfvM49 New installation with no ped crossing signs installed instead

https://goo.gl/maps/ssn2AQpMoA4kzeqa8 another example

https://goo.gl/maps/vZEvM822muqLLXb67 pole mounted example prior to current change to 4-way intersection

https://goo.gl/maps/EvgvEuf1abuspnGK6 split phase intersection with a "ped" signal so that crossing was aligned with traffic from Middle Rd
https://goo.gl/maps/uHs58JTtzkSFKCyS9 Later deactivated and pointed towards back of left turn signal when normal crosswalk ped signals were installed

Weird. Haven't seen that before. I'd still note that the ones you mentioned are near homes and businesses, while the one at the mall that I mentioned isn't, and therefore doesn't have as much use. I'd also be curious to know if other states have this pedestrian setup for their traffic lights as well.

[jakeroot]

I've seen the above (car-less approach with traffic signals) exactly once. Downtown Seattle, of all places:

Marion St @ Western Ave

Marion is one-way eastbound but the signal also has a display for any westbound traffic. But there is no pedestrian signal, so that signal is actually meant for pedestrians. How this setup has survived over time, I'm not sure.

[jeffandnicole]

At one point, when ped signals were rare, regular signals used as a pedestrian indicator were common.  Very few remain in existence today.

To show one in action, let's take this intersecton, whose signal is split-phased with the opposing direction. Take a close look here:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/e5QBddCUTCqEhHzJ8 . The signal is red, although it's hard to tell due to those slot thingys they put in a lens to restrict side viewability. Now, zoom out and look at the main traffic light. It's green. That's showing how that signal to the side is really for pedestrians, not vehicles.  Honestly, I'm amazed this light hasn't been fully upgraded for pedestrians yet. The green arrow itself is relatively new.

[mrsman]

I've seen the above (car-less approach with traffic signals) exactly once. Downtown Seattle, of all places:

Marion St @ Western Ave

Marion is one-way eastbound but the signal also has a display for any westbound traffic. But there is no pedestrian signal, so that signal is actually meant for pedestrians. How this setup has survived over time, I'm not sure.

Signals like this are very common in Philadelphia.  Many of the signals do not have pedestrian indicators, so a standard RYG signal will control pedestrian movements.  In areas with one-way streets, you see the signals facing wrong way traffic, as is the case here:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9560345,-75.1606318,3a,75y,294.5h,91.81t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sW0kRt2526fgR2OjVaoNNRw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DW0kRt2526fgR2OjVaoNNRw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D203.60448%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

Here's another one at Spring Garden at 7th.  Here it seems like all of the signals that are meant for vehicles are larger 12-12-12, but the ped signals are 8-8-8.  One can see the wrong way signals facing one-way 7th and the left most signal at this vantage point is also for peds and is likely red when the median signal displays a green or yellow arrow.  (It matches the signals for the reverse direction).

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9615131,-75.1498869,3a,75y,86.69h,94.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sU97R_22ZN_Gi6q-Ei6edBg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Over in Washington DC, there is this signal at a T intersection.  (The stem of the T is a driveway, but delivery vehicles use it to access IRS and the Trump Hotel loading zones.)  There are ped signals here, yet for whatever reason there is a RYG signal facing into a building.  From this vantage point, I'm referring to the red signals.  12th St NW, north of Constitution.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8934337,-77.028129,3a,37.5y,85.63h,93.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFRNw919dDmEwmfLGoAlDLA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[ErmineNotyours]

I've seen the above (car-less approach with traffic signals) exactly once. Downtown Seattle, of all places:

Marion St @ Western Ave

Marion is one-way eastbound but the signal also has a display for any westbound traffic. But there is no pedestrian signal, so that signal is actually meant for pedestrians. How this setup has survived over time, I'm not sure.

There used to be more of them in Pioneer Square, before 2nd Ave had bike lanes added.  1st & Yesler are both two-way streets, but there are no pedestrian signals.

[jakeroot]

I've seen the above (car-less approach with traffic signals) exactly once. Downtown Seattle, of all places:

Marion St @ Western Ave

Marion is one-way eastbound but the signal also has a display for any westbound traffic. But there is no pedestrian signal, so that signal is actually meant for pedestrians. How this setup has survived over time, I'm not sure.

There used to be more of them in Pioneer Square, before 2nd Ave had bike lanes added.  1st & Yesler are both two-way streets, but there are no pedestrian signals.

2nd and Yesler looks to have had an example of this as well.

[kphoger]

There used to be one in downtown Wheaton, IL.

GSV from 2017, still present
GSV from 2019, removed

[RobbieL2415]

Thought I'd share- this traffic light at the Danbury Fair Mall in Connecticut has a signal head pointing towards a parking lot approach...that has no access to the intersection. Don't know if it was installed by CTDOT or the mall, but boy, wonder how that one happened.

I would assume that's for pedestrians, has nothing to do with the parking lot

Pedestrians? It's a T-intersection right in front of a mall, after that the exit options are ramps to US-7/I-84 or making a left/right onto Backus Ave, which just takes you to more stores (no sidewalk). No matter where you go, it doesn't seem like a place for pedestrians, and crossing straight from there, you'd be heading towards a large intersection with no marked crosswalks or pedestrian signals. Also, I'm aware it has nothing to do with the parking lot, I'm just saying the layout of it makes it look like it does.

It is fairly common practice in CT where there are no pedestrian crosswalk signals for T intersections or where split phasing is used

https://goo.gl/maps/Hu6zqeoJzBhd4LVB6 old setup with signal towards field
https://goo.gl/maps/ayD2KcYVPZ1GfvM49 New installation with no ped crossing signs installed instead

https://goo.gl/maps/ssn2AQpMoA4kzeqa8 another example

https://goo.gl/maps/vZEvM822muqLLXb67 pole mounted example prior to current change to 4-way intersection

https://goo.gl/maps/EvgvEuf1abuspnGK6 split phase intersection with a "ped" signal so that crossing was aligned with traffic from Middle Rd
https://goo.gl/maps/uHs58JTtzkSFKCyS9 Later deactivated and pointed towards back of left turn signal when normal crosswalk ped signals were installed

Page 11-1 of the current ConnDOT signal manual:

In  those  instances  where pushbuttons are not provided, the Local Traffic Authority should be consulted.  The exclusion of pushbuttons itself does not require an action by the Office of State Traffic  Administration.    However,  if  no pushbuttons  are  included  in  the  signal  design  then  "No Pedestrian Crossing" signs should be installed.  These signs are a regulatory item, and therefore a traffic investigationreport approving their installation is required

So the new signal installed in South Windsor at CT 194/74 is following this guideline.

Further down:
Pedestrian Actuated Side Street Green:
Pedestrian actuation of side streetgreen for crossing the arterial may require more time than might otherwise be allotted to the side street phase.  Pedestrians should normally be provided time to cross from curb line to curb line at a normal walking speed of 3.5 feet per second.  In areas where elderly pedestrians, pedestrians with disabilities,or pedestrians who may travel at a slower pace are expected,  a  walking  speed  of  less  than  3.5  feet  per  second  should  be  considered.    The  calculated pedestrian crossing time is shown on the signal plan in the WALK and PED CLR rows under the appropriate vehicle phase.  Typically one second is entered as the PED CLR timedue to controller requirementsand the remainder of the required time is entered as the WALK time.The  designer  should includean  auxiliary  signal  headto  ensure  that  signal  indications  are visible to the pedestrian.  Inaddition, at intersections with split side streetphasing, signal faces for pedestrians may need to be shielded(tunnel visors/louvers).Pedestrian  signal  heads  should  be  conspicuous  and  recognizable  to  pedestrians  at  all distances  from  the  beginning  of  the  controlled crossingto  a  point  10  feet  from  the  end  of  the controlled crossing during both day and night.

In summary, those post-mounted signals are for getting peds across a main road when the need for walk signals isn't high enough but where ped safety would be compromised without some kind of control.

[RobbieL2415]

In other news, CT's first LPI signal began operation this past week, though its a municipal installation.

It's at the intersection of Buckland St., Buckland Rd., Buckland Hills Dr., and Pleasant Valley Rd.

[US 89]

I'm fairly certain San Francisco had a few examples of carless approaches with traffic signals for peds...at least when I went in 2013.

[mrsman]

I'm fairly certain San Francisco had a few examples of carless approaches with traffic signals for peds...at least when I went in 2013.

Yes, they do.  Grant Ave, that runs through Chinatown, is one of the narrowest streets in SF with traffic signals, so most of the examples are along there.  Here is Grant and Pacific:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7968845,-122.4068272,3a,75y,66.26h,83.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spG8rsGjYq-xyjaXe1_1xuQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en

But here is something interesting, ped signals used only in the wrong-way direction (for car traffic) and no ped signals for peds facing the same direction of traffic.  Usually if you are driving and you don't see ped signals, they wouldn't be present in the opposing direction.

Grant and Jackson, San Francisco:

This is what it looks like facing traffic, northbound view on Grant, no ped signals:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7960347,-122.4066791,3a,75y,348.9h,84.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sa2AQknFkyQ4D3E6wJnhfbw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en

This is what it looks like opposing traffic, southbound view on Grant, only ped signals:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.796047,-122.4066739,3a,75y,182.01h,80.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sU6IpYcl4aS2qGq3puHjJCg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en

[Caps81943]

Over in Washington DC, there is this signal at a T intersection.  (The stem of the T is a driveway, but delivery vehicles use it to access IRS and the Trump Hotel loading zones.)  There are ped signals here, yet for whatever reason there is a RYG signal facing into a building.  From this vantage point, I'm referring to the red signals.  12th St NW, north of Constitution.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8934337,-77.028129,3a,37.5y,85.63h,93.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFRNw919dDmEwmfLGoAlDLA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Now that is bizarre, and very uncharacteristic for DC, which likes putting signals for even the most unused of driveways but I've never seen them for simply crosswalks. This makes me wonder if that arc of the Wilson Plaza was a driveway years back. It's definitely big enough.

[jakeroot]

Over in Washington DC, there is this signal at a T intersection.  (The stem of the T is a driveway, but delivery vehicles use it to access IRS and the Trump Hotel loading zones.)  There are ped signals here, yet for whatever reason there is a RYG signal facing into a building.  From this vantage point, I'm referring to the red signals.  12th St NW, north of Constitution.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8934337,-77.028129,3a,37.5y,85.63h,93.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFRNw919dDmEwmfLGoAlDLA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Now that is bizarre, and very uncharacteristic for DC, which likes putting signals for even the most unused of driveways but I've never seen them for simply crosswalks. This makes me wonder if that arc of the Wilson Plaza was a driveway years back. It's definitely big enough.

(fixed quote attribution)

I've walked by that signal a few times while out wandering around, and I remember noticing the oddity.

Looking at historicaerials.com: never been a driveway there. There's really no explanation other than that it must have been a layover from days when it was meant for pedestrians.

[kphoger]

But here is something interesting, ped signals used only in the wrong-way direction (for car traffic) and no ped signals for peds facing the same direction of traffic.  Usually if you are driving and you don't see ped signals, they wouldn't be present in the opposing direction.

Grant and Jackson, San Francisco:

This is what it looks like facing traffic, northbound view on Grant, no ped signals:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7960347,-122.4066791,3a,75y,348.9h,84.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sa2AQknFkyQ4D3E6wJnhfbw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en

This is what it looks like opposing traffic, southbound view on Grant, only ped signals:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.796047,-122.4066739,3a,75y,182.01h,80.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sU6IpYcl4aS2qGq3puHjJCg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en

So one direction gets a stoplight and the other direction gets a ped signal.  That... actually... kind of makes sense!

[Caps81943]

(fixed quote attribution)

I've walked by that signal a few times while out wandering around, and I remember noticing the oddity.

Looking at historicaerials.com: never been a driveway there. There's really no explanation other than that it must have been a layover from days when it was meant for pedestrians.

Thanks for correcting the quote attribution, not sure how that happened.

But man, that is bizarre about the light. Again, totally uncharacteristic for DC, though I do know (based on old videos) that ped heads used to be a scarcity in the city. And considering this is an old(er) steel grey signal, I'm inclined to believe you're right. By that logic then, the south side of that intersection must have had a crosswalk years back, as there is also an old (now dark) signal there.

[mrsman]

(fixed quote attribution)

I've walked by that signal a few times while out wandering around, and I remember noticing the oddity.

Looking at historicaerials.com: never been a driveway there. There's really no explanation other than that it must have been a layover from days when it was meant for pedestrians.

Thanks for correcting the quote attribution, not sure how that happened.

But man, that is bizarre about the light. Again, totally uncharacteristic for DC, though I do know (based on old videos) that ped heads used to be a scarcity in the city. And considering this is an old(er) steel grey signal, I'm inclined to believe you're right. By that logic then, the south side of that intersection must have had a crosswalk years back, as there is also an old (now dark) signal there.

There is quite to be said about this intersection.

Take a look at this vantage point:

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.893253,-77.0281322,3a,37.5y,300.23h,94.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szGbdFeiCUROALr6swMyAPQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

My earlier post showed two red signals that faced the building.  This one is even stranger, but harder to locate thru GSV.  From this vantage point, you see the red light facing the driveway, but behind it is a traffic signal facing the building.  So not only were there two signals facing the building from across the street, but there is also one near sided signal that also faces the building.

From what I can gather, this building, which is now part of EPA headquearters, was once part of the Post Office Dept. headquarters.  The building was built in 1936, but I'm not sure if the grassy area once held a small parking lot.  It's still strange because any signal with a mast arm in DC is relatively recent (last 15 years or so) so certainly at the time when they replaced this signal, there was no driveway on the west side of 12th street.

Many years ago, there was a C street that ran through here, its northern border was basically at the edge of the Old Post Office Building (now Trump Hotel).  For whatever reason, the driveway doesn't entirely match the old C street, but curves a little bit south, following the contour of the IRS building.  I believe this was done to increase the area for outside tables and chairs as the Old Post Office used to have a big food court, and it allowed people to take food outside.

Pre-COVID, I worked in this area, so I am quite familiar with this signal, passing it on foot almost daily.  The dark signal is not an old signal head, it just means that the bulb burned.

[mrsman]

But here is something interesting, ped signals used only in the wrong-way direction (for car traffic) and no ped signals for peds facing the same direction of traffic.  Usually if you are driving and you don't see ped signals, they wouldn't be present in the opposing direction.

Grant and Jackson, San Francisco:

This is what it looks like facing traffic, northbound view on Grant, no ped signals:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7960347,-122.4066791,3a,75y,348.9h,84.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sa2AQknFkyQ4D3E6wJnhfbw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en

This is what it looks like opposing traffic, southbound view on Grant, only ped signals:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.796047,-122.4066739,3a,75y,182.01h,80.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sU6IpYcl4aS2qGq3puHjJCg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en

So one direction gets a stoplight and the other direction gets a ped signal.  That... actually... kind of makes sense!

It does.  It's just quite unique as a ped signal is almost always patched by an equivalent ped signal on the other side of the street.  I have seen plenty of intersections where the NS street has ped signals and the EW street does not (or vice versa), even though crossing is allowed in all directions, but never seen another example like the one above.

[mrsman]

Here's another example, but with a caveat.

For many years, NYC could not put in regular signals on part of Park Avenue that rests atop the Grand Central terminal train yards (basically 47 - 56 streets).  Apparently, the layout underneath restricted the types of signals that could be anchored to the ground here.  The signals looked like this:  (be sure you are looking at 2009 view)

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7559447,-73.9749401,3a,75y,173.06h,98.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKkGTsdFweLv9xKtAqeJ3ow!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

One stanchion with 12-12-12 signal in all directions, even the direction against one-way traffic.  But no ped signals.  And only one signal face in each direction.  What do you do if the bulb burns out?  This is a busy intersection with a very wide Park Avenue and a ton of pedestrians in the heart of Manhattan.  Yet, from what I gather, statistically not more dangerous than other nearby intersections with more signal faces.

Fortunately, this was later changed, and more traditional NYC signal were later installed with ped signals and guy wire mastarms.

[roadfro]

But here is something interesting, ped signals used only in the wrong-way direction (for car traffic) and no ped signals for peds facing the same direction of traffic.  Usually if you are driving and you don't see ped signals, they wouldn't be present in the opposing direction.

Grant and Jackson, San Francisco:

This is what it looks like facing traffic, northbound view on Grant, no ped signals:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7960347,-122.4066791,3a,75y,348.9h,84.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sa2AQknFkyQ4D3E6wJnhfbw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en

This is what it looks like opposing traffic, southbound view on Grant, only ped signals:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.796047,-122.4066739,3a,75y,182.01h,80.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sU6IpYcl4aS2qGq3puHjJCg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en

So one direction gets a stoplight and the other direction gets a ped signal.  That... actually... kind of makes sense!

It does.  It's just quite unique as a ped signal is almost always patched by an equivalent ped signal on the other side of the street.  I have seen plenty of intersections where the NS street has ped signals and the EW street does not (or vice versa), even though crossing is allowed in all directions, but never seen another example like the one above.

The only way that makes sense to me is if the walk+FDW pedestrian timing is exactly equal to the vehicular green time, so that pedestrians going both directions have the same amount of time to cross.

However, it really doesn't make sense in the grand scheme to have pedestrian signals in one direction (which provide the most amount of information about how much time you have to cross) versus only vehicular indications in the other direction (that aren't as instructive--that green can turn yellow at any moment!) on the same leg of a crossing. If you've gone as far as to put the signals in on half the legs, you might as well do all of them.

[jakeroot]

However, it really doesn't make sense in the grand scheme to have pedestrian signals in one direction (which provide the most amount of information about how much time you have to cross) versus only vehicular indications in the other direction (that aren't as instructive--that green can turn yellow at any moment!) on the same leg of a crossing. If you've gone as far as to put the signals in on half the legs, you might as well do all of them.

This is basically my opinion as well. Although I believe it should be legal to enter at any point during the walk & FDW cycle (I think the case in CA), some information about time remaining is very valuable to those who cannot move as quickly. A simple red-yellow-green signal isn't enough information to safely enter an intersection, unless you were at the intersection when it turned green. Even then, it's a total guessing game how long the light will last.

This type of setup may have been a thing out east or in the midwest for a while, but ped signals have been standard here in the Seattle area since at least the late 50s. Especially with advances in technology and, in particular, changes in law, there really is no valid excuse for not installing pedestrian signals (with countdown timers and voice guidance).

[roadman65]

I was noticing in my home town of Lakeland that the downtown signals have the crosswalks display the walk icon before the road signal turns green.  Does anywhere else have this set up?

[jakeroot]

I was noticing in my home town of Lakeland that the downtown signals have the crosswalks display the walk icon before the road signal turns green.  Does anywhere else have this set up?

Exceptionally common. It's called a leading pedestrian interval (LPI for short).

[STLmapboy]

Found something interesting in Blaine, MN. Here's a signal installation that uses the classic green base/yellow pole/vertical truss arms scheme that characterized older MN masts; however, this installation came in around 2018.

For those who don't know, here's a typical newer all-gray MN mast arm, located just a block away.

[kphoger]

I didn't even realize that colorful combination was a thing there.