Traffic signal

[CJResotko]

https://youtu.be/9I2sSpL6v6A

[jakeroot]

https://youtu.be/9I2sSpL6v6A

A very unique setup. Thanks for sharing.

I like the extra flashing red arrow on the left edge of the road.

[TEG24601]

https://youtu.be/9I2sSpL6v6A

A very unique setup. Thanks for sharing.

I like the extra flashing red arrow on the left edge of the road.

I always loved the Michigan traffic signals.  Left turns green always at the end of the cycle, Red Flashing Arrow at the beginning (supposed to mean: "Stop, Go if clear", but usually treated as either "Yield" or "Leroy Jenkins!").  Seemed to make traffic flow much easier.

[jakeroot]

Here's a rather interesting signal, in Frederick, MD. On the left near-corner, there is a four-head signal:

https://goo.gl/maps/6EzpMcGLL7wbP9Sd6

From top to bottom: Circular Red -- Red Arrow -- Amber Arrow -- Green Arrow

The left turn is fully protected. The signal effectively works as a near-side repeater for both the through signal and the turn signal, but only when the through signal is red. When it's not, you see this:

https://goo.gl/maps/uGuPhPm5zgjQ1eVa6

... where only the red arrow is illuminated, second from the top.

I've always thought that near-side signals on corners should have repeaters for both left turn and through signals, if both exist; this may not be my ideal setup, but I suppose it's a bit more important that drivers prepare for a red signal coming around a corner, than a green signal.

[Amtrakprod]

Great job MassDOT! You ruined the FYA!
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5258915,-70.9273314,3a,26.4y,54.38h,97.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saI8lN4kUUGOZgURUWG3_Sw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

In the image, it shows a green fya with green thru signals. The opposing direction shows a red FYA and red thru/right signals. The FYA should be flashing!

[fwydriver405]

Great job MassDOT! You ruined the FYA!
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5258915,-70.9273314,3a,26.4y,54.38h,97.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saI8lN4kUUGOZgURUWG3_Sw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

In the image, it shows a green fya with green thru signals. The opposing direction shows a red FYA and red thru/right signals. The FYA should be flashing!

At this intersection, I also notice that there are two kinds of PPRT signals being used... is there a reason why southern Central St uses a 5-section doghouse, while westbound Lowell St uses an FYA? I know MA allows RTOR (and LTOR from one way to one way) on red arrow but shouldn't red arrows be used instead of red balls at this intersection if NTOR is desired? Finally, if you also look at westbound Lowell St, you'll notice that while southern Central St gets a protected left, westbound Lowell St doesn't get a protected right arrow - they only get a permissive flashing yellow right arrow...

Seems like they haven't fixed the yellow trap at that intersection... someone must have wired or misprogrammed the FYA as that is not how it should be programmed - the FYA should be wired to the oncoming circular green, not the adjacent ones. If eastbound Lowell St is lagging left, there needs to be a W25-1 or 2 sign alerting drivers of an extended green/yellow trap or (although not explicitly permitted), use an FYA doghouse on westbound Lowell St to prevent yellow trap.

The phasings get even more complex since your example is near a rail crossing - how often do trains pass by that level crossing?

[jakeroot]

Great job MassDOT! You ruined the FYA!
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5258915,-70.9273314,3a,26.4y,54.38h,97.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saI8lN4kUUGOZgURUWG3_Sw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

In the image, it shows a green fya with green thru signals. The opposing direction shows a red FYA and red thru/right signals. The FYA should be flashing!

Apparently some places do not activate the FYA until the through signal gets their green. I do not understand this logic, but it's out there.

[UCFKnights]

Great job MassDOT! You ruined the FYA!
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5258915,-70.9273314,3a,26.4y,54.38h,97.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saI8lN4kUUGOZgURUWG3_Sw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

In the image, it shows a green fya with green thru signals. The opposing direction shows a red FYA and red thru/right signals. The FYA should be flashing!

Apparently some places do not activate the FYA until the through signal gets their green. I do not understand this logic, but it's out there.

The other thing a number of places do is have basically a LPI for the left turn. All of them around here seem to wait about 3-5 seconds after the opposing direction has green to start flashing, which could have also resulted in that photo.

[kphoger]

Great job MassDOT! You ruined the FYA!
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5258915,-70.9273314,3a,26.4y,54.38h,97.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saI8lN4kUUGOZgURUWG3_Sw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

In the image, it shows a green fya with green thru signals. The opposing direction shows a red FYA and red thru/right signals. The FYA should be flashing!

FYA = Flashing Yellow Arrow

[fwydriver405]

Great job MassDOT! You ruined the FYA!
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5258915,-70.9273314,3a,26.4y,54.38h,97.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saI8lN4kUUGOZgURUWG3_Sw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

In the image, it shows a green fya with green thru signals. The opposing direction shows a red FYA and red thru/right signals. The FYA should be flashing!

Apparently some places do not activate the FYA until the through signal gets their green. I do not understand this logic, but it's out there.

The other thing a number of places do is have basically a LPI for the left turn. All of them around here seem to wait about 3-5 seconds after the opposing direction has green to start flashing, which could have also resulted in that photo.

But if the turn is leading, would that cause yellow trap on the side with the permissive only FYA if the leading left turn gets recycled due to phase skip?

[jakeroot]

FYA = Flashing Yellow Arrow

When he says "FYA", he means the signal, not the state of the signal. A bit confusing, but I got what he meant. should have said "FYA signal", IMO.

Apparently some places do not activate the FYA until the through signal gets their green. I do not understand this logic, but it's out there.

The other thing a number of places do is have basically a LPI for the left turn. All of them around here seem to wait about 3-5 seconds after the opposing direction has green to start flashing, which could have also resulted in that photo.

But if the turn is leading, would that cause yellow trap on the side with the permissive only FYA if the leading left turn gets recycled due to phase skip?

No, there's no yellow trap. Basically, at the beginning of any through phase (regardless of the prior phase), the opposing FYA signal stays red for a few seconds to allow pedestrians to enter the crosswalk (an LPI). This only occurs at the beginning of the through phase.

[kphoger]

Great job MassDOT! You ruined the FYA!
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5258915,-70.9273314,3a,26.4y,54.38h,97.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saI8lN4kUUGOZgURUWG3_Sw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

In the image, it shows a green fya with green thru signals. The opposing direction shows a red FYA and red thru/right signals. The FYA should be flashing!

FYA = Flashing Yellow Arrow

When he says "FYA", he means the signal, not the state of the signal. A bit confusing, but I got what he meant. should have said "FYA signal", IMO.

If that's the case, then he got the colors wrong.  All the FYA signals are black.

[jakeroot]

If that's the case, then he got the colors wrong.  All the FYA signals are black.

No, no, no, "green FYA" = FYA signal showing green arrow, "red FYA" = FYA signal showing red arrow, etc.

The FYA signal is in a position whereby its defining factor (the flashing yellow arrow) is sometimes used to describe not just that individual phase, but the entire signal housing. So, a "green FYA" is an FYA signal showing a green arrow. I can understand why this might be confusing. It even confused me. I'm not necessarily used to hearing it described this way, but I understand what he meant.

More professionally, one might just describe the state of the signal ("green arrow") as the individual phases may not have anything to do with the other phases.

[UCFKnights]

Great job MassDOT! You ruined the FYA!
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5258915,-70.9273314,3a,26.4y,54.38h,97.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saI8lN4kUUGOZgURUWG3_Sw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

In the image, it shows a green fya with green thru signals. The opposing direction shows a red FYA and red thru/right signals. The FYA should be flashing!

Apparently some places do not activate the FYA until the through signal gets their green. I do not understand this logic, but it's out there.

The other thing a number of places do is have basically a LPI for the left turn. All of them around here seem to wait about 3-5 seconds after the opposing direction has green to start flashing, which could have also resulted in that photo.

But if the turn is leading, would that cause yellow trap on the side with the permissive only FYA if the leading left turn gets recycled due to phase skip?

Yeah, as jakeroot said, no yellow trap. I've heard Orlando is testing an intersection that delays the beginning of the FYA stage until it actually detects a gap in traffic. Once the first gap is detected, it has to stay in the FYA state at least until the opposing thru traffic cycle is ending. But it goes both ways, as long as the agency gets it in the right direction: FYA can start at the same time or anytime after the opposing traffic gets green, but not before, and an FYA can end at the same time or anytime after the opposing traffic gets its yellow/red. I'm not sure if its intentional or not, but many lights around here do seem to have the yellow and red phases on the FYA signal come on about 0.1 seconds after the thru signals get them. That would presumably give them an extra 0.1 seconds before they think there phase is ending to prevent a fake yellow trap from an early red light runner.

[Revive 755]

Here's a rather interesting signal, in Frederick, MD. On the left near-corner, there is a four-head signal:

https://goo.gl/maps/6EzpMcGLL7wbP9Sd6

From top to bottom: Circular Red -- Red Arrow -- Amber Arrow -- Green Arrow

The left turn is fully protected. The signal effectively works as a near-side repeater for both the through signal and the turn signal, but only when the through signal is red. When it's not, you see this:

https://goo.gl/maps/uGuPhPm5zgjQ1eVa6

... where only the red arrow is illuminated, second from the top.

I've always thought that near-side signals on corners should have repeaters for both left turn and through signals, if both exist; this may not be my ideal setup, but I suppose it's a bit more important that drivers prepare for a red signal coming around a corner, than a green signal.

I'll give it points for creativity, but I have to wonder about that design versus using a 'be prepared to stop when flashing' assembly tied into the light.

Streetview has an image when both the circular red and red arrow are lit.

EDIT:  Technically I don't think this design would be MUTCD compliant either.

A shared signal face shall not be used for protected only mode left turns unless the CIRCULAR GREEN and left-turn GREEN ARROW signal indications always begin and terminate together.

[TEG24601]

Great job MassDOT! You ruined the FYA!
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5258915,-70.9273314,3a,26.4y,54.38h,97.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saI8lN4kUUGOZgURUWG3_Sw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

In the image, it shows a green fya with green thru signals. The opposing direction shows a red FYA and red thru/right signals. The FYA should be flashing!

Apparently some places do not activate the FYA until the through signal gets their green. I do not understand this logic, but it's out there.

I have yet to see an FYA that activates until both through phases are green.


I have seen the 3-head FYA in Marysville, WA, just last weekend.  It seemed odd, as they were using the green position for the FYA, then I saw it turn green.

[roadfro]

I have yet to see an FYA that activates until both through phases are green.

They're doing it wrong...

[plain]

I've seen plenty of FYA's that activated when the left turn from the opposite direction has a protected green active.

[SignBridge]

I think that was the original intent of how FYA was supposed to be used at least as regards Dallas Phasing.

[Amtrakprod]

Great job MassDOT! You ruined the FYA!
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5258915,-70.9273314,3a,26.4y,54.38h,97.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saI8lN4kUUGOZgURUWG3_Sw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

In the image, it shows a green fya with green thru signals. The opposing direction shows a red FYA and red thru/right signals. The FYA should be flashing!

At this intersection, I also notice that there are two kinds of PPRT signals being used... is there a reason why southern Central St uses a 5-section doghouse, while westbound Lowell St uses an FYA? I know MA allows RTOR (and LTOR from one way to one way) on red arrow but shouldn't red arrows be used instead of red balls at this intersection if NTOR is desired? Finally, if you also look at westbound Lowell St, you'll notice that while southern Central St gets a protected left, westbound Lowell St doesn't get a protected right arrow - they only get a permissive flashing yellow right arrow...

Seems like they haven't fixed the yellow trap at that intersection... someone must have wired or misprogrammed the FYA as that is not how it should be programmed - the FYA should be wired to the oncoming circular green, not the adjacent ones. If eastbound Lowell St is lagging left, there needs to be a W25-1 or 2 sign alerting drivers of an extended green/yellow trap or (although not explicitly permitted), use an FYA doghouse on westbound Lowell St to prevent yellow trap.

The phasings get even more complex since your example is near a rail crossing - how often do trains pass by that level crossing?

I'm guessing the right FYA is for the grade crossing, which is used about 2 times a day.

[Amtrakprod]

Great job MassDOT! You ruined the FYA!
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5258915,-70.9273314,3a,26.4y,54.38h,97.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saI8lN4kUUGOZgURUWG3_Sw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

In the image, it shows a green fya with green thru signals. The opposing direction shows a red FYA and red thru/right signals. The FYA should be flashing!

FYA = Flashing Yellow Arrow

I was talking about the FYA signal. No the phase.

[fwydriver405]

FYA = Flashing Yellow Arrow

When he says "FYA", he means the signal, not the state of the signal. A bit confusing, but I got what he meant. should have said "FYA signal", IMO.

Apparently some places do not activate the FYA until the through signal gets their green. I do not understand this logic, but it's out there.

The other thing a number of places do is have basically a LPI for the left turn. All of them around here seem to wait about 3-5 seconds after the opposing direction has green to start flashing, which could have also resulted in that photo.

But if the turn is leading, would that cause yellow trap on the side with the permissive only FYA if the leading left turn gets recycled due to phase skip?

No, there's no yellow trap. Basically, at the beginning of any through phase (regardless of the prior phase), the opposing FYA signal stays red for a few seconds to allow pedestrians to enter the crosswalk (an LPI). This only occurs at the beginning of the through phase.

Just passed thru this intersection yesterday. Amtrakprod is correct about how the 3-section FYA doesn't activate when the opposing thru direction has a green light. There is no LPI at this intersection as it is an exclusive pedestrian phase. I find it strange that the right turn FYA doesn't go to a green right arrow when the perpendicular street gets a leading left turn. Also, pay attention to right turn FYA when the perpendicular lead left ends... it goes from solid yellow, to red arrow for a few tenths of a second, then back to solid yellow, than red arrow when the cross traffic has a green...

The intersection does have second yellow trap however because the right turn keeps flashing yellow while all other directions (including the opposing permissive left turn) gets a solid yellow to red. Nonetheless,  there is a risk of preemption and phase skip yellow trap on the direction of the 3-section FYA...

[NoGoodNamesAvailable]

Very strange looking signal in Medford, NY. How unfamiliar is region 10 to horizontal signals to warrant this monstrosity? NYSDOT is incredibly lazy with signal placement, even in new installs, and when they're forced to deviate from their standard treatment, it shows.

[cl94]

Very strange looking signal in Medford, NY. How unfamiliar is region 10 to horizontal signals to warrant this monstrosity? NYSDOT is incredibly lazy with signal placement, even in new installs, and when they're forced to deviate from their standard treatment, it shows.

That's Region 10 (or a contractor) being stupid. Every other NYSDOT region can install horizontal signals properly. R10 consistently has some of the worst installs in the state.

[plain]

Very strange looking signal in Medford, NY. How unfamiliar is region 10 to horizontal signals to warrant this monstrosity? NYSDOT is incredibly lazy with signal placement, even in new installs, and when they're forced to deviate from their standard treatment, it shows.

Uuuuhhhhgggghhh that's ugly!! WTF were they thinking


SM-S820L