Traffic signal

[UnumProvident101]

Does anyone know what kind of traffic light this is on the far right in this link https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1138601,-85.2601656,3a,68.7y,240.96h,91.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjl4oySCT3_T1zgGZxjZ56w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
and most of the time when I'm with my dad in his car the traffic light on the right always has a green arrow and today I noticed that the light changed to red

[Big John]

^^ Looks like they are using signal per lane on supplemental signals.  Left signal is primary for through traffic.  Middle signal is also primary for through traffic with the right arrow indicating the middle lane can go straight or right.  The right signal you are asking about is saying right turn only from right lane.  I don't see why it would turn red since there is no opposing traffic using that lane.  There are no pedestrian signals for the traffic to stop for.  Was there an emergency vehicle nearby where the signals would pre-emptively turn red?

[UnumProvident101]

today it did turn red

[Amtrakprod]

today it did turn red

You didn't answer their question.


iPhone

[fwydriver405]

Off-topic, but this is a very similar configuration for this double right turn (thru-right, right turn lane) in Providence RI.  Notice the NTOR sign on the pole. When the right turn overlap activates, the right turn signal goes green, but the middle signal's arrows disappear and there is just a red ball. Even with the overlap, does that technically prohibit a RTOR from the thru-right lane? There's no sign saying "RIGHT TURN ON RED FROM RIGHT LANE ONLY", and the arrow on the middle signal isn't bimodal...

[kphoger]

Was there an emergency vehicle nearby where the signals would pre-emptively turn red?

Do those signals even have preëmption?

[jakeroot]

Off-topic, but this is a very similar configuration for this double right turn (thru-right, right turn lane) in Providence RI.  Notice the NTOR sign on the pole. When the right turn overlap activates, the right turn signal goes green, but the middle signal's arrows disappear and there is just a red ball. Even with the overlap, does that technically prohibit a RTOR from the thru-right lane? There's no sign saying "RIGHT TURN ON RED FROM RIGHT LANE ONLY", and the arrow on the middle signal isn't bimodal...

Nearly-identical setup exists at the exit from a shopping center in Tacoma, WA (spin camera around to see lane configuration, although it's also shown on the overhead signs).

Basically, from what I've seen, if the green arrow is lit, you can make the right turn from any lane that allows right turns. The usage of signal-per lane setups (technically not the case here but damn-near) does not override what the signals themselves indicate. Which is that, if a green is shown, you may turn without stopping, assuming there is nothing obstructing you from doing so.

[plain]

Off-topic, but this is a very similar configuration for this double right turn (thru-right, right turn lane) in Providence RI.  Notice the NTOR sign on the pole. When the right turn overlap activates, the right turn signal goes green, but the middle signal's arrows disappear and there is just a red ball. Even with the overlap, does that technically prohibit a RTOR from the thru-right lane? There's no sign saying "RIGHT TURN ON RED FROM RIGHT LANE ONLY", and the arrow on the middle signal isn't bimodal...

Also off topic (actually way off topic lmao) but in your first link if you spin the camera to the right and look in the distance you'll see a BGS where they stuck a narrow I-195 shield on a faded wide one. Looks pretty funky.

[Amtrakprod]

Not sure how this was allowed to be installed: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3648275,-71.1355121,3a,75.7y,266.8h,100.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sr28FBInQsPwqezSGXIzqJQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[ErmineNotyours]

Wyoming, I appreciate the effort. I really do. But this has got to stop. Just mount the signs on the mast arm or (even better) on the side of the road in advance of the intersection like every other state.

They could follow Oregon's example.

[jakeroot]

Wyoming, I appreciate the effort. I really do. But this has got to stop. Just mount the signs on the mast arm or (even better) on the side of the road in advance of the intersection like every other state.

They could follow Oregon's example.

That's awful. Oregon can be so messy.

[jakeroot]

Not sure how this was allowed to be installed: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3648275,-71.1355121,3a,75.7y,266.8h,100.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sr28FBInQsPwqezSGXIzqJQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Combining a green arrow with an oncoming green orb seems like a massive no-no.

[mrsman]

Off-topic, but this is a very similar configuration for this double right turn (thru-right, right turn lane) in Providence RI.  Notice the NTOR sign on the pole. When the right turn overlap activates, the right turn signal goes green, but the middle signal's arrows disappear and there is just a red ball. Even with the overlap, does that technically prohibit a RTOR from the thru-right lane? There's no sign saying "RIGHT TURN ON RED FROM RIGHT LANE ONLY", and the arrow on the middle signal isn't bimodal...

Hmm.  This is interesting.  So the right lane's signal will display green arrow when adjacent thru signals are green and during the time of the corresponding left turn.  The middle lane's signal will only display the green arrow when thru signals are green.

I think the proper interpretation is that right turns are allowed for any time there is a green arrow from either the right or the middle lane.  I think one of the concerns that the local authority may have is what happens if someone in the middle lane wants to turn right, but someone in front of them wants to go straight.  Obviously, too bad for that person, he has to wait for the green orb to turn right, since the car in front is blocking him.  And to prevent honking or other aggressive behavior, they will not display the right arrow for this lane, since the car in front cannot proceed on red orb.  While there is no (easy) way to know if the lead car at the intersection in that lane wants to go straight or right, they err on the side of caution to not display the right arrow.  But of course, when the green orb is lit, straight and right can go without restriction (there aren't even pedestrians for right turn traffic to concern itself with) and both green orb and green arrow are lit for this lane.

I notice in my area, and probably others as well, that if the rightmost lane is not right turn only, a right arrow will not be displayed, even if the majority of cars in that lane do turn right.  It probably has something to do with the line of thinking I mentioned in the previous paragraph - not encouraging honking from the right turners when the car in front can legally go straight and has to wait for green.

Take a look at this intersection, Georgia at Forest Glen in Silver Spring, MD.  The far right lane can go straight or right and will end soon after crossing the intersection.  In practice, because the lane does end soon after the intersection, most cars in this lane do turn right - but not every car.  It would be nice to have a right turn arrow coordinated with the left from Forest Glen to Georgia, but the MD SHA will not do it because it is not an exclusive right turn lane.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0154139,-77.0424888,3a,75y,347.27h,81.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5UIr8q920ftI1gLga7nMGQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Contrast with this corner, where a right turn arrow is displayed for a right turn lane.  In this case, buses are permitted to go straight in the right turn lane and a bus can hold up right turning traffic, despite the right green arrow.  In practice, the transit buses do try to merge into the next lane (when they can) to avoid holding up the significant right turns that are here, but they aren't required to and don't always do it.  If a bus is in front of you, honking won't help.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0355936,-77.0257272,3a,37.5y,302.19h,85.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sROWZ1yI04R8-iNCV0xlJ-A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[Amtrakprod]

They fixed the stuck red arrow here


iPhone

[fwydriver405]

Not sure how this was allowed to be installed: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3648275,-71.1355121,3a,75.7y,266.8h,100.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sr28FBInQsPwqezSGXIzqJQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Combining a green arrow with an oncoming green orb seems like a massive no-no.

There used to be an intersection exactly like that in nearby Cambridge where the two-way street had left/right green arrows, and the one-way street, circular green. Both were lit up at the same time and people from the two-way street (with the green arrows) assumed they had the ROW, but didn't know oncoming traffic also had a circular green.

This intersection on the two-way side has since been replaced with left and right facing FYA's.

[Amtrakprod]

Not sure how this was allowed to be installed: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3648275,-71.1355121,3a,75.7y,266.8h,100.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sr28FBInQsPwqezSGXIzqJQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Combining a green arrow with an oncoming green orb seems like a massive no-no.

There used to be an intersection exactly like that in nearby Cambridge where the two-way street had left/right green arrows, and the one-way street, circular green. Both were lit up at the same time and people from the two-way street (with the green arrows) assumed they had the ROW, but didn't know oncoming traffic also had a circular green.

This intersection on the two-way side has since been replaced with left and right facing FYA's.

Was going to link this! Yep! First FYAs in the state too IIRC. Atleast first 3 section.


iPhone

[STLmapboy]

When your mast arm ain't long enough, buy an extension.
In British Columbia.

[jakeroot]

When your mast arm ain't long enough, buy an extension.
In British Columbia.

Strange as it may seem, it was actually installed that way. There's quite a few mast arms like this around BC.

[US 89]

When your mast arm ain't long enough, buy an extension.
In British Columbia.

Reminds me of a few signals I've seen in Utah that were retrofitted within the past few years in order to accommodate a FYA where there previously wasn't room for one. Problem is...the extensions look nothing like the original mast arm that was already there, and so the whole setup ends up looking sort of gross. Here's one on Foothill Drive (SR 186) in eastern Salt Lake City.

It's sort of weird that they went with the mastarm extension plus FYA setup here. Although Salt Lake City has been going nuts in the past few years adding new FYAs and replacing doghouses with them, UDOT will usually opt to replace the original left 3-section signal with a doghouse (see this intersection in nearby Bountiful and compare to older imagery for a good example of that).

[Amtrakprod]

When your mast arm ain't long enough, buy an extension.
In British Columbia.

Reminds me of a few signals I've seen in Utah that were retrofitted within the past few years in order to accommodate a FYA where there previously wasn't room for one. Problem is...the extensions look nothing like the original mast arm that was already there, and so the whole setup ends up looking sort of gross. Here's one on Foothill Drive (SR 186) in eastern Salt Lake City.

It's sort of weird that they went with the mastarm extension plus FYA setup here. Although Salt Lake City has been going nuts in the past few years adding new FYAs and replacing doghouses with them, UDOT will usually opt to replace the original left 3-section signal with a doghouse (see this intersection in nearby Bountiful and compare to older imagery for a good example of that).

That's a lot of work for just a FYA. This is what MA does Lmao:


iPhone

[Caps81943]

Reminds me of a few signals I've seen in Utah that were retrofitted within the past few years in order to accommodate a FYA where there previously wasn't room for one. Problem is...the extensions look nothing like the original mast arm that was already there, and so the whole setup ends up looking sort of gross. Here's one on Foothill Drive (SR 186) in eastern Salt Lake City.

Wow that looks terrible. I know a lot of places put an FYA in the median, but that's hard to do there with no median. Seems like a tough situation to me.

Or maybe Virginia was right in providing extra room at the end of masts

[paulthemapguy]

When your mast arm ain't long enough, buy an extension.
In British Columbia.

Strange as it may seem, it was actually installed that way. There's quite a few mast arms like this around BC.

Plenty of mast arms are installed that way in Illinois, too, when they exceed a certain length.  I think it might be because the mast arms will be manufactured in say, 5 foot increments...so if you want a precise length like 53 feet, you need a 45-foot arm plus an 8-foot extension, for example. https://goo.gl/maps/vbW7NqCASAWwJBpR8

[jakeroot]

That's a lot of work for just a FYA. This is what MA does Lmao:

This is what I've seen in WA as well. Rather than go through the pain in the ass process of installing a bunch of new metal, just move one of the signal heads to the mast, and replace the other overhead signal with the FYA. Way easier, and makes the whole setup better for visibility anyways.

Example here for large intersection (previously a doghouse); example here for smaller intersection (use GSV time-slider to compare before and after).

[Amtrakprod]

That's a lot of work for just a FYA. This is what MA does Lmao:

This is what I've seen in WA as well. Rather than go through the pain in the ass process of installing a bunch of new metal, just move one of the signal heads to the mast, and replace the other overhead signal with the FYA. Way easier, and makes the whole setup better for visibility anyways.

Example here for large intersection (previously a doghouse); example here for smaller intersection (use GSV time-slider to compare before and after).

Yeah, MassDOT examples:
Before: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4613807,-71.1676569,3a,75y,272.75h,88.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skOWQluw_XhGVDnoP0r6gHg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
After: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4613706,-71.1676358,3a,60y,273.72h,88.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sT8e1tyFEhfbqCAoZciB0Cg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Before: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4343327,-71.2414597,3a,75y,259.93h,90.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPSzNl7oluojRYJ14eE1RHQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
After: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4343052,-71.2414508,3a,75y,261.11h,90.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUlNhe4GmvOA8xAoqCmYP1A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Before: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4250913,-71.2503733,3a,75y,264.7h,89.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sY9bUtoxm3rX3zPKAs-TQMg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
After: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4250966,-71.2503896,3a,75y,269.09h,92.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWCWoHO0-fxYTyIZ6McsgAw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Before (larger intersection): https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6286703,-71.274291,3a,46.9y,118.68h,95.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sq3Xa6i91L47IzMNeEWTA-w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
After (intersecting upgrade here): https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6286351,-71.2742982,3a,32.6y,116.2h,94.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMKxe8TK2Ab_CN6rOfWY7hg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[US 89]

That’s a lot of work for just a FYA. This is what MA does Lmao:

This is what I've seen in WA as well. Rather than go through the pain in the ass process of installing a bunch of new metal, just move one of the signal heads to the mast, and replace the other overhead signal with the FYA. Way easier, and makes the whole setup better for visibility anyways.

Example here for large intersection (previously a doghouse); example here for smaller intersection (use GSV time-slider to compare before and after).

It’s not a bad idea, but UDOT has never used a configuration like that. It would appear their standard is to always have at least two overhead signals, and it’s very rare for them to put one on the far-side mast (though there are a couple exceptions, like this one on SR 36).

The configuration does exist in Utah at a handful of intersections (example), but those are all Salt Lake City installs and I can’t think of one that’s not right next to a light rail line. Since the above intersection is on SR 186, the lights are maintained by UDOT.