Conversion of I-70 to toll road should freak Americans out

[J N Winkler]

At this stage, I think choice of transponder platform is moot since there is absolutely no prospect of a tolled I-70 expansion being open before the national interoperability due date of 2016 or any later deadlines that may be set after recognition (long overdue, IMO) that 2016 is unrealistic.

In the short run I think even a tolling proposal will fail and the infrastructure will just be left to rot.  From the standpoint of the Missouri electorate, which has consistently shot down funding proposals whenever they have been put to a vote in the last fifteen years, this may even be rational  A very high proportion of Missouri's Interstate mileage is of very low quality in terms of geometric design--as an example, nearly all of I-70 has a forty-foot median while 80% of the untolled freeway mileage in Kansas has a median width of sixty feet or more--and an extended funding drought shifts the balance of advantage toward tearing down and starting over rather than putting a fresh coat of lipstick on the pig.

[Bobby5280]

I have a strong feeling all those who are adamantly opposed to tolling roads are in for quite a nightmare in the next few years and following decade.

We're not only going to see toll tag scanners erected on a lot of previously "free" Interstate highways and other non-tolled super highways, we're going to eventually see them on regular surface streets too. It's only a matter of time.

Not only is the federal system for funding highways broken, it's also broken on the state and local level too. The local level is particularly bad. Many cities are near broke or over their heads in debt over a variety of factors. The burst housing bubble wiped out a lot of imaginary property tax revenue. Around here, small cities like Wichita Falls and Lawton weren't exposed to the housing bubble, but are now strapped because of drought and water use restrictions -they're suddenly getting far less revenue from water bills. Anyway, there's no money on the local level to fix streets, much less do badly needed upgrades on some roads. ODOT will only do certain work in the Lawton area if the local taxpayers kick in a certain percentage in order for ODOT & Federal to provide matching funds. For a lot of small towns getting streets fixed is a pipe dream.

There's no way just any one method of taxation is going to fly with voters. It's going to have the appearance of being too expensive. Too big of a shit sandwich to eat all by itself. Just letting infrastructure rot is not going to fly either. Politicians may think it's political suicide to raise gasoline taxes, but it's just as politically suicidal to sit back and wait for the next bridge collapse that kills several people. Infrastructure is not free. Politicians will have to educate voters on that fact.

The solution will likely be a mixture of fund-raising methods. Few new super highways will be free access. We need nationwide compatible transponder tags. Gasoline taxes will have to increase as well as be applied as a percentage of fuel prices rather than the obsolete fixed price that only worked when both gasoline and road building/maintenance costs were far less expensive. Ad valorem taxes on vehicles, tires and even vehicle related accessories may be applied or increased.

I don't think taxing miles from an odometer will work. There's no accounting for all miles driven in a particular state or country. I think we're just going to see a whole lot more tag readers installed all over the place. Not just on superhighways either. There's major privacy concerns about that. But I can see such technology pushed into neighborhood streets with the benefit of stopping crime. You wouldn't be able to get away with doing a drive by shooting if you had scanners hitting your car tag and/or transponder at either corner of the block.

[US 41]

Americans should be border-line freaking out, and not just those living in Missouri. Right now, Missouri lawmakers are figuring out how much to fleece motorists that use I-70 in the years ahead. The United States Department of Transportation has given Missouri the authority to convert I-70, an existing road that was toll-free, to one that costs as much as 10-15 cents per mile. The U.S. DOT has also given such authority to two other states- indeed the trend continues to grow.

What's so alarming? Existing free-to-use interstates and roads are becoming toll-roads. The craziest thing is that in some cases (such as in North Carolina) the roads are being built or rebuilt using taxpayer money AND the conversion to toll road is happening, so not only are motorists paying to built it, but they're paying to use it. Not only that, but in North Carolina's case, gasoline taxes also just got jacked up to start the new year.

In Missouri's plan, the conversion could cost passenger vehicles $20-$30 for the entire stretch from just east of Kansas City to Wentzville. In the case of truckers, it could be $60-$90!

What's next, folks? Are we going to see my current city, Chicago start to toll the hundreds of miles of local toll-free roads? Where do we draw the line? Can you imagine driving to work and paying $7 in gas and $15 in tolls? This is getting ridiculous! How about politicians across the country stop putting off tough decisions and trim budgets so that instead of our taxpayer dollars funding pork and wasteful spending we spend our money on roads!

http://blog.gasbuddy.com/posts/Conversion-of-I-70-to-toll-road-should-freak-Americans-out/1715-480024-746.aspx

I actually like toll roads. If I don't feel like paying the toll I'll take the US or state highway paralleling it. Toll Roads seem to be maintained better. What I don't like are toll roads with no toll booths. I try to avoid those.

[NE2]

I actually like toll roads. If I don't feel like paying the toll I'll take the US or state highway paralleling it.

Good luck avoiding I-70 in Missouri by taking US 40.

Actually US 50 would be a very popular alternative to a tolled I-70.

[Brandon]

I actually like toll roads. If I don't feel like paying the toll I'll take the US or state highway paralleling it.

Good luck avoiding I-70 in Missouri by taking US 40.

Actually US 50 would be a very popular alternative to a tolled I-70.

US-36 is better, IMHO (for where I go).  All divided, some freeway, and a hell of a lot less traffic.

[Darkchylde]

I actually like toll roads. If I don't feel like paying the toll I'll take the US or state highway paralleling it.

Good luck avoiding I-70 in Missouri by taking US 40.

Actually US 50 would be a very popular alternative to a tolled I-70.

US-36 is better, IMHO (for where I go).  All divided, some freeway, and a hell of a lot less traffic.

In my case, US 50 or US 24 would work.

I've only heard about I-70 being looked at for tolls so far, but who's to say more Interstates might not follow if it eventually becomes a thing on 70.

Anyways, I found a link to the story from last night. Fair warning, autoplaying video:

http://www.kmbc.com/news/drivers-balk-at-idea-of-turning-i70-into-toll-road/30147126

[Revive 755]

I suppose the next move will be to privatize all the other freeways in MO in order to pay for completing, say, the Belle Vista Bypass segment of I-49? Or...the Bruce Watkins Drive segment of US 71 (pending resolution of that consent decree, that is)?? Or...completing the US 67 freeway to Popular Bluff/Festus? Or, freewayizing US 61 from STL northward as part of the Avenue of the Saints upgrade??

Assuming Missouri does get tolls on I-70, I would bet on I-44 being next.  There seems to have been much more talk of rebuilding I-44 across Missouri in the media than I've seen for I-29, I-35, or I-55.

[kharvey10]

Its been a sore subject in the St. Louis Roads facebook group, but the matter of two things

1. If it is tolled, how fast would MoDOT upgrade 36?
2. How much the traffic would increase on 36 and 50, and to a lesser extent 54 and 65?

[Guysdrive780]

http://www.modot.org/i-70p3/

I found some Information. According to the thing it says there would be a electronic tolling system. It also says that its the same conversion linked to I-95 in virginia 

[vdeane]

I don't think taxing miles from an odometer will work. There's no accounting for all miles driven in a particular state or country. I think we're just going to see a whole lot more tag readers installed all over the place. Not just on superhighways either. There's major privacy concerns about that. But I can see such technology pushed into neighborhood streets with the benefit of stopping crime. You wouldn't be able to get away with doing a drive by shooting if you had scanners hitting your car tag and/or transponder at either corner of the block.

That's why mileage tax proposals often include a built-in GPS to track one's every move.  In addition to allowing the state to tax your miles, the FBI/border patrol/etc. would LOVE it.  Unfortunately the idea of privacy is pretty much dead.

[Scott5114]

I have a strong feeling all those who are adamantly opposed to tolling roads are in for quite a nightmare in the next few years and following decade.

We're not only going to see toll tag scanners erected on a lot of previously "free" Interstate highways and other non-tolled super highways, we're going to eventually see them on regular surface streets too. It's only a matter of time.

Not only is the federal system for funding highways broken, it's also broken on the state and local level too. The local level is particularly bad. Many cities are near broke or over their heads in debt over a variety of factors. The burst housing bubble wiped out a lot of imaginary property tax revenue. Around here, small cities like Wichita Falls and Lawton weren't exposed to the housing bubble, but are now strapped because of drought and water use restrictions -they're suddenly getting far less revenue from water bills. Anyway, there's no money on the local level to fix streets, much less do badly needed upgrades on some roads. ODOT will only do certain work in the Lawton area if the local taxpayers kick in a certain percentage in order for ODOT & Federal to provide matching funds. For a lot of small towns getting streets fixed is a pipe dream.

There's no way just any one method of taxation is going to fly with voters. It's going to have the appearance of being too expensive. Too big of a shit sandwich to eat all by itself. Just letting infrastructure rot is not going to fly either. Politicians may think it's political suicide to raise gasoline taxes, but it's just as politically suicidal to sit back and wait for the next bridge collapse that kills several people. Infrastructure is not free. Politicians will have to educate voters on that fact.

The solution will likely be a mixture of fund-raising methods. Few new super highways will be free access. We need nationwide compatible transponder tags. Gasoline taxes will have to increase as well as be applied as a percentage of fuel prices rather than the obsolete fixed price that only worked when both gasoline and road building/maintenance costs were far less expensive. Ad valorem taxes on vehicles, tires and even vehicle related accessories may be applied or increased.

I don't think taxing miles from an odometer will work. There's no accounting for all miles driven in a particular state or country. I think we're just going to see a whole lot more tag readers installed all over the place. Not just on superhighways either. There's major privacy concerns about that. But I can see such technology pushed into neighborhood streets with the benefit of stopping crime. You wouldn't be able to get away with doing a drive by shooting if you had scanners hitting your car tag and/or transponder at either corner of the block.

I don't think we are going to hit that extreme. Raising the gas tax is not impossible, it's just not politically feasible in the current state of politics.

Failing to raise the gas tax is one of many symptoms of the trend of the last fifteen to twenty years or so to cut back on government spending. (When was the last time you saw a crisp $5 bill? The Federal Reserve has been leaving bills in circulation for much longer than it used to in order to save money.) Eventually it will come to a point where too much has been cut, things start breaking down, people get angry, and the pendulum swings back the other way. I think it would be more doable to raise the gas tax than seriously advocate for EZPass scanners on every corner.

[J N Winkler]

I don't think we are going to hit that extreme. Raising the gas tax is not impossible, it's just not politically feasible in the current state of politics.

There are states where it is pretty painless to raise the gas tax even deep into the present rightward turn--Missouri just isn't one of them.

My sense is that if construction of new toll roads ever becomes widespread, the backlash will make it much easier to raise the gas tax.  The public-authority turnpikes we had by 1960 were a small fraction of those proposed between 1945 and 1960, and a large part of the reason for that was gathering resistance to toll finance.  Iowa, Michigan, Oklahoma, and several other states all had toll road proposals in that period that failed, and were ultimately built as free Interstates.

Those of us who dislike toll roads tend to look at what has happened in Texas over the last 10 years as a worrisome precedent.  Even there, however, there have been signs of a developing backlash:  the toll road moratorium, the collapse of the Trans-Texas Corridor proposals, the bankruptcy of the SH 130 concessionaire, the financial overextension of regional toll authorities like NTTA, etc.  So far bonding has emerged as the only serious alternative to tolling, but I don't think it will be too much longer before an increased gas tax becomes politically palatable even there.

[Guysdrive780]

If every interstate became a toll road today and people can't afford it. I think the minimum wage should be risin

[Bobby5280]

I don't think we are going to hit that extreme. Raising the gas tax is not impossible, it's just not politically feasible in the current state of politics.

Failing to raise the gas tax is one of many symptoms of the trend of the last fifteen to twenty years or so to cut back on government spending. (When was the last time you saw a crisp $5 bill? The Federal Reserve has been leaving bills in circulation for much longer than it used to in order to save money.) Eventually it will come to a point where too much has been cut, things start breaking down, people get angry, and the pendulum swings back the other way. I think it would be more doable to raise the gas tax than seriously advocate for EZPass scanners on every corner.

The problem is there's other interests or needs eating up ever more of federal and state budgets.

The health care industrial complex is on pace to eat up 20% of the United States' annual GDP before this decade is finished. And that's despite the Affordable Care Act or the so-called "free market" system that preceded it. Runaway cost inflation is the norm and neither political party is showing any serious legitimate interest in controlling it. Baby boomers are reaching retirement age, compounding Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security short falls. College tuition inflation and its looming student loan debt bubble is another serious concern. There's all sorts of other things eating up the budget. Infrastructure needs seem like an after thought.

I'm fairly angry about the situation with sequestration. I attended a public listening session aboard Fort Sill this week where a committee from the Pentagon was hearing input from people in the region about the effect some possible, very drastic cuts would have on the region. Fort Sill has around 9000 permanent party military personnel stationed there and just under 2000 civilian employees. Sequestration has them talking cuts of as much as 6000 military and 800 civilian personnel there, going into effect in 2016. Fort Sill has already been losing troops from the draw down already taking place. But these cuts from sequestration would have the post lose over 66% of the military force and nearly 50% of the civilian work force. Lawton's economy is going to get devastated if those cuts come to pass. If they cut that deep they might as well close down the place. So many people in Lawton will lose their jobs and be forced to move anyway. It's a pretty ridiculous situation, especially with the progress Lawton has been making in recent years.

Anyway, with all that being said, nothing out of the ordinary will surprise me when it comes to finding new methods of funding roads.

[Scott5114]

Oh, definitely, infrastructure funding is just one piece of the funding puzzle. But whether that is what sounds the alarm or something else, eventually the current austerity fad will go too far and voters will reject it in favor of more generous funding. We've seen this happen in many European countries that tightened things even more than the US did, we will see it here too. (And then that cycle will probably last for 20 or 30 years and we'll go back to cutting.)

[CtrlAltDel]

There are states where it is pretty painless to raise the gas tax even deep into the present rightward turn--Missouri just isn't one of them.

My sense is that if construction of new toll roads ever becomes widespread, the backlash will make it much easier to raise the gas tax.  The public-authority turnpikes we had by 1960 were a small fraction of those proposed between 1945 and 1960, and a large part of the reason for that was gathering resistance to toll finance.  Iowa, Michigan, Oklahoma, and several other states all had toll road proposals in that period that failed, and were ultimately built as free Interstates.

Those of us who dislike toll roads tend to look at what has happened in Texas over the last 10 years as a worrisome precedent.  Even there, however, there have been signs of a developing backlash:  the toll road moratorium, the collapse of the Trans-Texas Corridor proposals, the bankruptcy of the SH 130 concessionaire, the financial overextension of regional toll authorities like NTTA, etc.  So far bonding has emerged as the only serious alternative to tolling, but I don't think it will be too much longer before an increased gas tax becomes politically palatable even there.

Thanks for this analysis. I think it well sums up the issue and the political circumstances.

[US 41]

If every interstate became a toll road today and people can't afford it. I think the minimum wage should be risin

Denmark and Australia both have minimum wages that are twice as high as ours. People can't live off a little over $6 an hour after taxes. Plus most minimum wage jobs don't have benefits for their employees. I personally think a $10 minimum wage isn't a terrible idea.

[skluth]

Is there a good way to toll I-70 or has the state even said how it would be done? Would toll booths be built on all ramps from (potential end points) Oak Grove to Foristell? Would any be manned? Or would just a few hard-to-avoid sections like the Missouri River crossing and just east of Kingdom City have big tolls?

Personally, I'd prefer the latter so the few times per decade I cross the state I'd be able to use manned booths. I would prefer not to buy a transponder for the little I would use it. I'd be tempted just to take US 50 instead which is only slightly slower and more scenic.

[Lyon Wonder]

Meanwhile in neighboring Kansas, gov Brownback wants to raid KDOT highway funding and divert it into the general fund.  I wouldn't be surprised if there's a proposal to convert I-70 and other currently free-interstates into toll-roads in Kansas at some point too.

http://www.leaderandtimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=19229:brownback-announces-raid-on-kdotfunds-to-close-budget-gap&catid=12:local-news&Itemid=40

[Revive 755]

Meanwhile in neighboring Kansas, gov Brownback wants to raid KDOT highway funding and divert it into the general fund.  I wouldn't be surprised if there's a proposal to convert I-70 and other currently free-interstates into toll-roads in Kansas at some point too.

http://www.leaderandtimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=19229:brownback-announces-raid-on-kdotfunds-to-close-budget-gap&catid=12:local-news&Itemid=40

There's mention in that article of diverting pension funds.  Isn't this the road Illinois has fallen down?

[3467]

Yes it is but if you count all our roads as assets it comes out even .......But our real problem has been a really bad Medicaid reimbursement rate -Medicaid is 20 billion of the 60 billion budget . It blows away schools roads and the underfunded pensions . ....If we had MOs rates and benefits we might be building the rest of the supplemental freeway system

[J N Winkler]

Meanwhile in neighboring Kansas, gov Brownback wants to raid KDOT highway funding and divert it into the general fund.  I wouldn't be surprised if there's a proposal to convert I-70 and other currently free-interstates into toll-roads in Kansas at some point too.

This is a Kansas-specific problem.  The perception is that Brownback created his own mess by insisting on steep income tax cuts.  It is T-Works, which represents a level of investment above and beyond what is required to maintain the current infrastructure, that was fully funded before the tax cuts took effect and which will be at risk in 2017 and beyond.

I think Brownback and the conservative Republicans in the Legislature who backed the tax-cut plan will do anything but admit they were wrong.  However, if they raid KDOT now and then find they need more money down the road, it is much more likely that they will postpone or cancel the capacity expansions programmed in T-Works (like later phases of the I-235/US 54 cloverleaf-to-stack/turban-hybrid conversion) than propose tolls on I-70, which does not need any work done on it other than bridge and pavement replacement.

[vdeane]

Is there a good way to toll I-70 or has the state even said how it would be done? Would toll booths be built on all ramps from (potential end points) Oak Grove to Foristell? Would any be manned? Or would just a few hard-to-avoid sections like the Missouri River crossing and just east of Kingdom City have big tolls?

They'd probably just be gantries reading transponders and plate numbers.  Where, I have no idea.

[bugo]

I actually like toll roads. If I don't feel like paying the toll I'll take the US or state highway paralleling it.

Good luck avoiding I-70 in Missouri by taking US 40.

Actually US 50 would be a very popular alternative to a tolled I-70.

Good luck avoiding the Indian Nation Turnpike.

[US 41]

I actually like toll roads. If I don't feel like paying the toll I'll take the US or state highway paralleling it.

Good luck avoiding I-70 in Missouri by taking US 40.

Actually US 50 would be a very popular alternative to a tolled I-70.

Good luck avoiding the Indian Nation Turnpike.

US 271 / OK 3 / US 75 is how I would avoid it.