Orange Speed Limit Signs

[MASTERNC]

I noticed the following photo from Adam Prince's Flickr page regarding the NC 540 construction.  It's probably just NCDOT creating their own signage but I would think the Feds would have an issue with a regulatory sign being in orange & black.  Sorry it won't give me a URL to link the photo so I have to give the page link.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/adamontheroad/6489703797/

[Alps]

Even in work zones, they're supposed to be white on black, but the Feds won't care about individual work zone signs. If a state does this repeatedly and conspicuously enough to attract Federal attention, maybe. They talk a better game than they play.

[Brian556]

Caught this one on I-35E in Farmer's Branch, Texas last summer.

[1995hoo]

I remember back in the mid- to late-1990s North Carolina used to use an even stranger speed limit sign where "Work Zone" was in a black-on-orange banner at the top of a normal speed limit sign, then a black line delineated that banner from the normal black-on-white part, except that it wasn't a normal part because "Speed Limit" appeared in a single line of text in a much smaller typeface than normal and then the number appeared in a much thicker typeface than normal. I think there may have been another banner on the bottom about higher fines, but I don't remember. Very strange sign. I don't have any pictures, unfortunately, but I mention it in case it jars someone's memory. I did a quick Google search and didn't find any images and unfortunately I need to get moving to be somewhere by 12:30.


Edited later in the day to add: The sign shown below is similar to the ones I remember, though not quite the same. The biggest difference I recall is much bolder numbers in a strange font.

[Brian556]

Ok, here's some more odd speed limit signs.

The first two are posted by Johnson County, TX on CR 401 (early alignment of US 81)
The second two are standard for the City Of Dallas, meaning all of their speed limit signs look like these.





City of Dallas 18x24


City Of Dallas 24x30

[roadman]

Even in work zones, they're supposed to be white on black, but the Feds won't care about individual work zone signs. If a state does this repeatedly and conspicuously enough to attract Federal attention, maybe. They talk a better game than they play.

Generally, a black on orange sign speed limit sign is considered to be advisory only, and is not a regulatory requirement.  Therefore, such signs are usually not legally enforcable as speed limits.  But, as with most traffic controls - especially for temporary work zones, certain requirements and regulations do vary from state to state, so it's always best to do your own research to address specific situations.

Disclaimer - Roadman is NOT a lawyer, and does not advocate the willful violation of speed limits or other traffic laws either within or outside of highway work zones.

[Alps]

Even in work zones, they're supposed to be white on black, but the Feds won't care about individual work zone signs. If a state does this repeatedly and conspicuously enough to attract Federal attention, maybe. They talk a better game than they play.

Generally, a black on orange sign speed limit sign is considered to be advisory only, and is not a regulatory requirement.  Therefore, such signs are usually not legally enforcable as speed limits.  But, as with most traffic controls - especially for temporary work zones, certain requirements and regulations do vary from state to state, so it's always best to do your own research to address specific situations.

Disclaimer - Roadman is NOT a lawyer, and does not advocate the willful violation of speed limits or other traffic laws either within or outside of highway work zones.

Not... quite. Black on orange is undefined for speed limit signs, so while the state is in violation of the MUTCD, you probably will lose the fight. I also wanted to clarify my last statement - the reason they "talk a bigger game" is because the Feds can't possibly have the manpower to police all 50 states for all violations, or to review all plans. The states have the responsibility to police their own incorporation of the MUTCD.

[roadman]

Not... quite. Black on orange is undefined for speed limit signs, so while the state is in violation of the MUTCD, you probably will lose the fight. I also wanted to clarify my last statement - the reason they "talk a bigger game" is because the Feds can't possibly have the manpower to police all 50 states for all violations, or to review all plans. The states have the responsibility to police their own incorporation of the MUTCD.

OK, let me clarify my earlier statement.  If the purpose of a speed limit sign in a work zone is to advise or remind drivers of a regulatory speed limit, than the sign shall be black on white in accordance with the MUTCD (see Section 6F.02).  Now I've never had personal experience with this issue (fortunately), but it is my understanding that, at least in Massachusetts, a black on orange speed limit sign in a work zone is generally unenforcable as a legal regulation in and of itself.  That's not to say a driver couldn't be stopped and cited for another violation like reckless driving, but at present, only speeding in a work zone is subject to double fines in MA.  As I indicate, that's my understanding for Massachusetts - the rules in your favorite state may vary.

And you are absolutely correct that the Feds do normally leave it up to the states to self-police themselves for MUTCD compliance.

[Alps]

Normally, though, a black on orange speed limit is really an advisory speed square posted beneath other signs. This is a very rare case that really amounts to choosing the wrong background color for the sign, which is why I don't know how far a legal argument will take you.

[myosh_tino]

Here's a California perspective.  This sign...

...is called a "Road Work/Speed Limit" sign (California sign code C17) and is to be used according to the California MUTCD "for the protection of workers during working hours to reduce speed limit within a TTC (temporary traffic control) zone."  The sign is authorized for use per California Vehicle Code section 22362.  Speed Reduction (FHWA W3-5) or Speed Zone Ahead (California R2-4(CA)) signs MUST be posted prior to the C17 sign to warn drivers of the reduced speed limit.  FWIW, this sign is only 24 inches by 24 inches.

A few years ago, Caltrans was working on CA-87 and had temporarily reduced the speed limit from 65 MPH to 55 MPH due to the amount of construction activity and the narrow lanes on an 8-mile stretch of the freeway.  What construction people installed were a mix of black-on-orange "standard" speed limit signs and the C17 sign.  Since a significant amount of construction activity occurred at night, the 55 MPH speed limit was enforced 24/7.  Gary Richards, a local transportation columnist for the San Jose Mercury News, fielded numerous questions about the reduced speed limit on CA-87 and his sources with the California Highway Patrol, Caltrans and the Santa Clara County Sheriff's Dept all confirmed that the lower limit shown on the black-on-orange signs were enforceable.

So just remember, if you come across these black-on-orange speed limit signs, obey them.  They are not advisory limits*.

Edit: Let me clarify something I found in the MUTCD.  If you come across a standard looking speed limit sign (FHWA R2-1) but it's black-on-orange OR the California Road Work/Speed Limit sign (California C17), those speed limits are enforceable.  If you see a small orange sign that just says XX MPH only (FHWA W13-1P), that's an advisory speed sign in which case, the numerical limit is not enforceable.

[hbelkins]

True story from my late teens-early 20s. Just south of my hometown, there's a rural stretch of road with a speed limit of 55 mph, but had several advisory plates saying 35 mph. A young state policeman, not long out of the academy, wrote several speeding tickets for 55 in a 35 zone. He thought the advisory speeds were the actual speed limits. Those tickets got thrown out, of course. I had never heard of the MUTCD at the time but I knew that the little yellow sign underneath a curve sign or "Truck Crossing" sign was not the speed limit.

(And no, I was not one of those ticketed.)

[deathtopumpkins]

Re: the black-on-orange speed limit signs,

I have never seen a standard sign in black-on-orange personally, but all around Massachusetts I've seen orange advisory squares (i.e. "25 / MPH") used as if they were speed limit signs. For example, MA 125 in Bradford (Haverhill), MA is currently partially torn up and has a "25 MPH" square stuck up every couple telephone poles and a complete absence of any other speed limit signs. And in Ipswich on MA 1A/133 where the overpass over the MBTA commuter rail line is being replaced there are the same signs up. However here it is dangerously ambiguous as to whether they legally apply or not. On the south side of the overpass the normal speed limit is 25, but on the north side it is 40, with a 25 mph school zone in between the overpass and the 40 zone. The school zone is only signed southbound, and has no end sign, and apart from it, heading southbound drivers do not encounter a single regulation 25 sign until the end of the work zone. This is a problem because the town police frequently run speed traps out of the school parking lot, and a southbound driver may not know exactly where to slow down to 25 when the school zone is not in effect.