Left Turns on Red for two one way streets.

[US71]

Arkansas does, to my knowledge, but I can't think of many intersections where it would apply.

[Alps]

Repost: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_turn_on_red#Left_turn_on_red

Please do not post anything contained in that article. Tangents (such as curb lane turns) may continue.

[agentsteel53]

Please do not post anything contained in that article.

if

well, shit, I'm surely gonna go to Hell now.

Karma: -2, obvious/uninspired

[NE2]

Repost: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_turn_on_red#Left_turn_on_red

Unless I'm totally out of it, that adds up to 48 states.

[US71]

Repost: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_turn_on_red#Left_turn_on_red

Unless I'm totally out of it, that adds up to 48 states.

for RTOR or LTOR?  I count 44 states that allow LTOR

[mgk920]

Wisconsin, of course, allows left-turn-on-red between two one-way streets, unless prohibited by a sign.  Also, there are several signalized intersections here in the Appleton area with two right-turn lanes and in those instances, signs saying "NO TURN ON RED FROM LEFT LANE" are posted.  Examples here include at the recently updated US 41/College Ave (WI 125) interchange (off ramps) and at Oneida St/Lawrence St in downtown Appleton.  (Compliance at those intersections has been less than 100%, though, from what I have seen while out driving around.    )

Mike

[1995hoo]

Wisconsin, of course, allows left-turn-on-red between two one-way streets, unless prohibited by a sign.  Also, there are several signalized intersections here in the Appleton area with two right-turn lanes and in those instances, signs saying "NO TURN ON RED FROM LEFT LANE" are posted.  Examples here include at the recently updated US 41/College Ave (WI 125) interchange (off ramps) and at Oneida St/Lawrence St in downtown Appleton.  (Compliance at those intersections has been less than 100%, though, from what I have seen while out driving around.   )

Mike

Virginia is religious about prohibiting right on red from any lane but the curb lane and always posts a sign. I've noticed that compliance tends to be better during the day than at night, which I attribute to the fact that at many (perhaps most) intersections with two right-turn lanes the "No Turn on Red This Lane" sign–or another sign to the same effect (VDOT is quite inconsistent on the wording of this notice) is one of those dopey small signs located across the intersection next to the signal head, i.e., too small for many people to see or read in the dark. Just about everyone who lives in Virginia is used to VDOT's insistence on this rule and so we seldom use any right-turn lane other than the curb lane if the light is red, but it can be amusing to see out-of-staters who think they have this great way to jump past everyone by using the other turn lane and then they get to the stop bar and see the sign prohibiting the turn on red and then they panic and try to shove over into the other lane.....

Anyway, to get this back on topic, what's odd is that I know of a couple of intersections (very few, though!) in Virginia where there are two left-turn lanes from a one-way street onto another one-way street, yet NONE of those intersections has a "No Turn on Red This Lane" or "Left Turn on Red from Curb Lane Only" sign. I've never been able to find any Virginia statute that prohibits turns on red from any lane other than the curb lane, so I assume the right-on-red restriction is a VDOT thing rather than a matter of state law. I therefore conclude that the omission of the sign in the left-on-red situation, especially when VDOT is so religious about posting that sign for right turns, means that it's OK in the left-on-red scenario.


Speaking of signs, how many of you have seen signs specifically reminding drivers that left on red is allowed? There used to be a sign that said "Left Turn on Red After Stop" at the corner of West and Main Streets in Fairfax, Virginia (left turn from southbound West onto eastbound Main), but it was removed when they reconfigured the streets to make them two-way. That's the only one I can think of off the top of my head. While the purist in me dislikes the sign because it shouldn't be necessary, the impatient driver in me likes it because so many people don't know this maneuver is legal.

On the other hand, I can readily think of at least one "No Turn on Red (When Pedestrians Are Present)" sign that can only refer to a left on red. See Street View image here–the left lane of one-way Henry Street in Alexandria, VA, is left-only onto one-way Franklin Street and has a "No Turn on Red" sign, while the right lane is right-only onto a two-way portion of Franklin and has an identical sign.



Edited to add: The place where I most regularly encountered situations where left on red would have been practical was downtown Durham, North Carolina, when I attended Duke in the mid-1990s. Downtown was full of one-way streets with traffic lights, but North Carolina state law prohibited left on red (I believe it still does) and it made it absolutely maddening to drive around that area because you'd just have to sit and wait for no reason. I might have been known to violate that law on occasion.....

[goobnav]

Still no left turn on red in NC:

http://www.ncdot.gov/travel/roadrules/

In some ways this state is so backwards it isn't funny.

[Kacie Jane]

Repost: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_turn_on_red#Left_turn_on_red

Unless I'm totally out of it, that adds up to 48 states.

for RTOR or LTOR?  I count 44 states that allow LTOR

In U.S., 37 states and Puerto Rico allow left turns on red only if both the origin and destination streets are one way. See South Carolina law [11] Section 56-5-970 C3, for example. Five other states, namely Alaska, Idaho, Michigan, Oregon and Washington, allow left turns on red onto a one-way street even from a two-way street.

That's 42 that allow LTOR (37 plus 5).  Then the article lists six states plus D.C. and Guam that ban LTOR.  42 + 6 = 48, leading to NE2's confusion.

(Unless you can explain to me how you count 44, which would account for the two missing states.)

[Duke87]

Well, I see two possibilities:
1) someone screwed up writing the Wiki article
2) there are two states whose laws do not explicitly address the matter

[florida]

Anyway, to get this back on topic, what's odd is that I know of a couple of intersections (very few, though!) in Virginia where there are two left-turn lanes from a one-way street onto another one-way street, yet NONE of those intersections has a "No Turn on Red This Lane" or "Left Turn on Red from Curb Lane Only" sign.

Like your example, there are only a couple of those down here too. One is an off-ramp from the East-West Expressway which allows LTOR from both lanes. The other was on Lake Underhill NB at South Street, which now has a "No Turn on Red" sign, and I'd like to think I had something to do with the addition of that sign



[fixed typo]

[roadfro]

Nevada allows a left turn on red from one way to another one way, following all applicable rules similar to the right on red law. There's only a few places where it even comes up though. The move must be done from the curb lane, similar to right on red.

[vtk]

which now has a "No Turn on Left" sign, and I'd like to think I had something to do with the addition of that sign

Is there an amusing anecdote to go with that, or did you just pester the appropriate agancy until a sign went up? And what's with the awkward wording?

[agentsteel53]

The move must be done from the curb lane, similar to right on red.

what about multiple lanes which are explicitly left-turn only?  can the LTOR be made from a non-curb lane then?  (is this even something which exist in reality?)

here in California, one may make RTOR from any lane so long as all lanes to the right are right-turn-only.  I am pretty sure the law is the same for LTOR in the one-way situation, but I do not know of any actual examples.

from Wikipedia:

Five other states, namely Alaska, Idaho, Michigan, Oregon and Washington, allow left turns on red onto a one-way street even from a two-way street.  In Washington, freeway on-ramps are considered one-way streets for the purposes of the left turn on red law.

now this I did not know.  so if I am on the surface street at a diamond interchange, sitting at the red light and wanting to turn left to enter the freeway, I can just plain go ahead and do so?  I don't think I've ever seen anyone do this in practice.  

or maybe I have, and I assumed that they were violating the law.

[rawmustard]

now this I did not know.  so if I am on the surface street at a diamond interchange, sitting at the red light and wanting to turn left to enter the freeway, I can just plain go ahead and do so?  I don't think I've ever seen anyone do this in practice.  

or maybe I have, and I assumed that they were violating the law.

I think most people are unaware. This must be the case in Michigan, since "NO TURN ON RED" signs are sometimes installed at freeway ramps. (In this particular instance, the exit and entrance ramps are offset, but within the parameters of being one intersection for purposes of traffic control.) It's befuddled me in the instances where MDOT uses a protected-only left-turn cycle at a one-way entrance ramp yet omits a "NO TURN ON RED," since it would be legal to turn on red in those instances.

[NE2]

I assume U-turn on red is only legal in those 5 states, and only when the intersecting road is one-way to the left?

[florida]

which now has a "No Turn on Left" sign, and I'd like to think I had something to do with the addition of that sign

Is there an amusing anecdote to go with that, or did you just pester the appropriate agancy until a sign went up? And what's with the awkward wording?

I kept making continuous left turns on red at that certain intersection and all of a sudden the sign appeared on the signal's mast arm one day.

[1995hoo]

which now has a "No Turn on Left" sign, and I'd like to think I had something to do with the addition of that sign

Is there an amusing anecdote to go with that, or did you just pester the appropriate agancy until a sign went up? And what's with the awkward wording?

I kept making continuous left turns on red at that certain intersection and all of a sudden the sign appeared on the signal's mast arm one day.

I think he was busting your chops for the typo: "No Turn on Left."

The move must be done from the curb lane, similar to right on red.

what about multiple lanes which are explicitly left-turn only?  can the LTOR be made from a non-curb lane then?  (is this even something which exist in reality?)

....

I can think of at least one spot (well, really four spots, but all at the same interchange) where there are two left-turn lanes from a one-way street into another one-way street here in Virginia–the interchange between I-395 and Seminary Road. I suppose in this case the second lane from the left is an optional left turn, i.e., "left or straight." There is no sign anywhere at that intersection prohibiting the left on red from the second lane, and I've made precisely that move quite a few times when I've been going from southbound I-395 to eastbound Seminary (the reason is that after you make that particular left, if you go from the curb lane you turn into another left-only lane, but I want to go straight after I turn, so I use the other lane). There's never been a cop around so I don't know the legality of it, but off the top of my head I can readily think of an intersection within a mile of my house where a "right or straight" lane has a "No Turn on Red This Lane" sign (or similar). VDOT is absolutely religious about posting that sign whenever there is more than one lane allowing RIGHT on red. But I've never seen it for LEFT on red. I'm sure it's a state-specific issue and nobody can give an absolute answer of "it's never OK" or "it's always OK."

[florida]

which now has a "No Turn on Left" sign, and I'd like to think I had something to do with the addition of that sign

Is there an amusing anecdote to go with that, or did you just pester the appropriate agancy until a sign went up? And what's with the awkward wording?

I kept making continuous left turns on red at that certain intersection and all of a sudden the sign appeared on the signal's mast arm one day.

I think he was busting your chops for the typo: "No Turn on Left."

I've completely overlooked that two times today. It's fixed to say red instead of left.

[Brandon]

The move must be done from the curb lane, similar to right on red.

what about multiple lanes which are explicitly left-turn only?  can the LTOR be made from a non-curb lane then?  (is this even something which exist in reality?)

This can be done (one way to one way) at Center Street and Jefferson Street here in Joliet, IL.  There are two left turn lanes, and no signs prohibiting a turn on red.  Thus, both lanes may turn left on red.

[PurdueBill]

I can think of at least one spot (well, really four spots, but all at the same interchange) where there are two left-turn lanes from a one-way street into another one-way street here in Virginia–the interchange between I-395 and Seminary Road. I suppose in this case the second lane from the left is an optional left turn, i.e., "left or straight." There is no sign anywhere at that intersection prohibiting the left on red from the second lane, and I've made precisely that move quite a few times when I've been going from southbound I-395 to eastbound Seminary (the reason is that after you make that particular left, if you go from the curb lane you turn into another left-only lane, but I want to go straight after I turn, so I use the other lane). There's never been a cop around so I don't know the legality of it, but off the top of my head I can readily think of an intersection within a mile of my house where a "right or straight" lane has a "No Turn on Red This Lane" sign (or similar). VDOT is absolutely religious about posting that sign whenever there is more than one lane allowing RIGHT on red. But I've never seen it for LEFT on red. I'm sure it's a state-specific issue and nobody can give an absolute answer of "it's never OK" or "it's always OK."

The Cedar/Broadway intersection in Akron I mentioned above fits that description, being at a T-junction of two one-way streets, four lanes each; Cedar defaults to a quadruple left turn lane onto Broadway.  Akron has a (very, very old and weathered) No Turn On Red sign there, with no mention of inner curb lane or not.  I looked in the Ohio laws and only found explicit mention of only curb lane to curb lane RIGHT turns on red being permissible, but no such language for left on red, which the law does explicitly allow in general from one-way to one-way.  Unless they buried it somewhere completely disconnected in the law or I missed it, it seems that if the sign weren't there, left turns on red would be permissible from any of the four lanes (into the corresponding lane on the new street, as guided by the dotted lane markings).  Whether law enforcement would actually be aware of that, or even go after a left on red from a non-left-curb lane without a sign present in the first place, is debatable.  Left on red is allowed and does happen enough around here that the cops would probably just roll with it.

[brownpelican]

Done it plenty of times in New Orleans and Hammond, La.

[roadfro]

The move must be done from the curb lane, similar to right on red.

what about multiple lanes which are explicitly left-turn only?  can the LTOR be made from a non-curb lane then?  (is this even something which exist in reality?)

I don't know of any examples of multiple left turn lanes from a one-way to another one-way in Nevada.

In fact, the only for-sure example where the one way to one way left even applies is in downtown Reno on 1st St turning left onto Center St. 1st is pretty minor and only has one left turn lane and one through lane.


Anyway, I'm pretty sure that if a multiple left one-way to one-way situation did exist, only the curb lane could perform the movement on a red signal...

[kphoger]

The move must be done from the curb lane, similar to right on red.

what about multiple lanes which are explicitly left-turn only?  can the LTOR be made from a non-curb lane then?  (is this even something which exist in reality?)

This can be done (one way to one way) at Center Street and Jefferson Street here in Joliet, IL.  There are two left turn lanes, and no signs prohibiting a turn on red.  Thus, both lanes may turn left on red.

Are you sure?  I seem to recall there being a statewide law that says LTOR from curb lane only.  No time to look it up right now, though.

[kphoger]

OK, after having looked up the laws, I have determined that neither Kansas nor Illinois specifies curb-lane only for RTOR or LTOR.  I don't know what I was thinking.  So I guess you would be good in Joliet, and I would be good in Wichita.  Good to know, as I often change lanes specifically to be able to turn on red, even if I'll need to get into the other one after completing the turn.