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Author Topic: Minnesota Notes  (Read 147918 times)

MNHighwayMan

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #750 on: August 01, 2018, 09:42:04 AM »

I was going through my pictures from a couple weeks ago, and I got to thinking when I came to this one. Is this the only example of a distance sign with a city more than 100+ miles away on a state-numbered highway? This is on MN-89 at its southern terminus west of Bemidji.



If this isn't the only example, which other ones are there? (Besides the reverse in Roseau, which lists Bemidji at 131 miles.)
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #751 on: August 01, 2018, 09:52:07 AM »

There are a couple 100+ distance signs on MN 23 for Duluth. That’s the only specific one I can think of, though I want to say I saw this on MN 7 and MN 65 as well.
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MNHighwayMan

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #752 on: August 01, 2018, 10:03:41 AM »

When you mentioned MN-23 and Duluth I remembered that I even have a picture of one of them, too (this is right after the MN-95 junction):



Also, I realized that MN-61 almost certainly has one each direction for Duluth/Grand Marais. I haven't checked but that has to be at least 100 miles.
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #753 on: August 01, 2018, 10:44:40 AM »

Ah, how the F did I forget MN 61? That one has a 151 for Duluth at its north beginning.
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froggie

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #754 on: August 01, 2018, 01:06:00 PM »

^ By "state numbered highway", I'm presuming you're excluding the Interstates.  What about U.S. routes?  They'd be signed in the same fashion as the state routes.  And on that note, there's a "St Paul 127" coming off I-90 on US 14/61.
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MNHighwayMan

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #755 on: August 01, 2018, 05:49:34 PM »

I did mean "excluding Interstate and US Routes" because I figured those are generally longer and more likely to use longer-distance destinations due to their nature.
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froggie

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #756 on: August 01, 2018, 09:43:13 PM »

Correct in the case of the Interstates.  But at a fundamental level, the only difference between US and MN routes aside from the shield is that US routes were part of a coordinated system of uniform route numbers that cross state lines.  It's true that the US routes were generally laid upon the more important routes of the time, but that wasn't always the case even then and certainly isn't today.

For example, even if it hadn't been dropped to a state route, nobody in their right mind would take 16 between Austin and La Crosse unless they had a stop along one of the towns enroute or they really weren't worried about time.
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Bickendan

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #757 on: August 02, 2018, 04:20:14 AM »

^Having driven most of southeast Minnesota's highways, I agree. 16 is more of a Sunday drive route than a backbone corridor.
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froggie

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #758 on: August 03, 2018, 05:34:37 PM »

Was tipped off to this on TravelMapping, but MnDOT has both turned back MN 275 and extended MN 119 south to US 212 in Dawson.  Here is the press release.

Both changes were recommended in the recent statewide Jurisdictional Transfer study.
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #759 on: August 04, 2018, 02:10:18 AM »

The MN 110 changeover has begun, with all the MN 62 reassurance markers now installed but the overhead signs are almost entirely untouched except for the ones along the new 62/55 duplex.

Also of note, a new auxiliary lane was built on WB MN 62 between Valley View Road and northbound MN 100 in Edina. Hope that will help some of the awful weekday afternoon crunch on that stretch.
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MNHighwayMan

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #760 on: August 04, 2018, 04:18:40 AM »

Was tipped off to this on TravelMapping, but MnDOT has both turned back MN 275 and extended MN 119 south to US 212 in Dawson.  Here is the press release.

Both changes were recommended in the recent statewide Jurisdictional Transfer study.

Additions (by means of transfer) to the system are so uncommon nowadays. Very interesting. I wonder if it's going to end up like MN-42 and not have mile markers on the new southern section.
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froggie

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #761 on: August 04, 2018, 08:26:10 AM »

^ This sort of thing, while uncommon in general, is certainly not unheard of.  MnDOT will try to do such swaps whenever possible where they're taking over a new roadway.  Part of it has to do with their state highway mileage cap in the state Constitution.  But it's also fiscal in nature.

Another notable example from the Metro is when they took over MN 62 and what is now US 169 between 494 and 94/694 in the late 1980s.  These had been Hennepin County freeways.  In return, MnDOT gave several smaller state highways in the county to Hennepin County, including the former MN 81, 121, and 152.
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JREwing78

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #762 on: August 04, 2018, 09:13:56 AM »

M-28 in Michigan has these 100+ signposts. 

This one is just west of the I-75 junction in Dafter (just south of Sault Ste. Marie):




At the junction with M-123 east of Newberry:




Westbound in Champion, MI (on a multiplex with US-41, but US-41 doesn't go to Wakefield).



In Wakefield eastbound:

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MNHighwayMan

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #763 on: August 04, 2018, 09:56:07 AM »

Another notable example from the Metro is when they took over MN 62 and what is now US 169 between 494 and 94/694 in the late 1980s.  These had been Hennepin County freeways.  In return, MnDOT gave several smaller state highways in the county to Hennepin County, including the former MN 81, 121, and 152.

MN-121 still exists, although shortened to go north only to W 58th St (this is at W 58th, taken May of last year.) The only evidence it still exists are the one reassurance shield at each end, though, since I-35W/MN-62 omit it from their signs.

« Last Edit: August 04, 2018, 10:03:33 AM by MNHighwayMan »
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J N Winkler

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #764 on: August 04, 2018, 02:49:07 PM »

M-28 in Michigan has these 100+ signposts.

They also exist in the lower peninsula, commonly thought of as less remote.  Three examples culled from about 3000 pages of pattern-accurate sign panel detail sheets for non-freeway signing jobs:

M-65 14, West Branch 35, Cadillac 102
White Cloud 10, Baldwin 37, Traverse City 102
Owosso 21, St Johns 41, Grand Rapids 102
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MNHighwayMan

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #765 on: August 04, 2018, 03:51:44 PM »

M-28 in Michigan has these 100+ signposts.
They also exist in the lower peninsula, commonly thought of as less remote.  Three examples culled from about 3000 pages of pattern-accurate sign panel detail sheets for non-freeway signing jobs:

M-65 14, West Branch 35, Cadillac 102
White Cloud 10, Baldwin 37, Traverse City 102
Owosso 21, St Johns 41, Grand Rapids 102

Yes, well, I just need to stop you both here, because I was specifically asking about it as it happens in Minnesota only. Otherwise, I would've asked the question in a new thread in the general board. ;-)
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froggie

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #766 on: August 05, 2018, 01:24:13 PM »

Quote from: MNHighwayMan
MN-121 still exists, although shortened to go north only to W 58th St (this is at W 58th, taken May of last year.)

My point is that the vast bulk of MN 121 was decommissioned as part of the swap.
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invincor

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #767 on: August 06, 2018, 11:03:14 AM »

I took a road trip up to Duluth yesterday and did some roadgeeking on the way.  This included going over that old iron bridge connecting WIS 105 to MN 39 where the car lane that looks like it was originally built for horses-and-buggies is on the lower level and the railroad uses the upper level.  I also drove back and forth on MN 23 a few times over that bit where it crosses into and out of Wisconsin briefly, just to see if there was any visible sign of the state line apart from my Google Maps alert.  (Only a fire number on a residence gave the game away.) 

On the way home using I-35, traffic backed up badly twice, once for an accident and the other time for the construction around Pine City.  At the second one, on Google Map traffic advice, I detoured into Pine City and used County 61 to miss several miles of back-up, and along the way, I found it's still got a cut-out US 61 shield at one point.  It's exactly opposite the Pine City high school building.  (This is southbound.)

Oh, and on the 100-mile plus topic on the guide signs... I went up there on WI-35, and found it started giving distances to Superior while still over 100 miles away. 
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MNHighwayMan

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #768 on: August 06, 2018, 01:11:25 PM »

I detoured into Pine City and used County 61 to miss several miles of back-up, and along the way, I found it's still got a cut-out US 61 shield at one point.  It's exactly opposite the Pine City high school building.  (This is southbound.)

It's one of these. They've been put up by Pine, Carlton, and St. Louis counties to mark the old US-61. They're from 2012.

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invincor

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #769 on: August 07, 2018, 09:15:26 AM »

Yes, that's the type, except this one was just the 61 shield by itself.  It didn't have the county highway marker or the "OLD" sign on it. 
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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #770 on: August 07, 2018, 05:14:11 PM »

I took a road trip up to Duluth yesterday and did some roadgeeking on the way.  This included going over that old iron bridge connecting WIS 105 to MN 39 where the car lane that looks like it was originally built for horses-and-buggies is on the lower level and the railroad uses the upper level.  I also drove back and forth on MN 23 a few times over that bit where it crosses into and out of Wisconsin briefly, just to see if there was any visible sign of the state line apart from my Google Maps alert.  (Only a fire number on a residence gave the game away.) 

On the way home using I-35, traffic backed up badly twice, once for an accident and the other time for the construction around Pine City.  At the second one, on Google Map traffic advice, I detoured into Pine City and used County 61 to miss several miles of back-up, and along the way, I found it's still got a cut-out US 61 shield at one point.  It's exactly opposite the Pine City high school building.  (This is southbound.)

Oh, and on the 100-mile plus topic on the guide signs... I went up there on WI-35, and found it started giving distances to Superior while still over 100 miles away. 


Several years ago that old bridge rumbled when you drove across it.  I believe it was boards before they paved it (drove on it once after that too)
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invincor

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #771 on: August 10, 2018, 01:12:44 PM »

Come to think of it, why did Minnesota decommission US 61 once it hit I-35?   They could've just hidden it like they've done with US 52 when it meets I-94 or US 12 through the Twin Cities metro.  Then US 61 could've reemerged on the north side of Duluth and they wouldn't have had to replace all those signs with Minnesota 61 ones. 

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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #772 on: August 10, 2018, 01:17:07 PM »

Come to think of it, why did Minnesota decommission US 61 once it hit I-35?   They could've just hidden it like they've done with US 52 when it meets I-94 or US 12 through the Twin Cities metro.  Then US 61 could've reemerged on the north side of Duluth and they wouldn't have had to replace all those signs with Minnesota 61 ones. 

No one's really sure. My research seems to indicate that 61 was actually mostly ghosted from Wyoming to Duluth and they still decommissioned it anyway. It was like MN was on a mission to dismantle as many redundant US routes as possible, even going as far as pressuring Wisconsin to accept a US 16 downgrade.

MN had petitioned for 61's elimination in 1971, but was denied then likely because I-35 was incomplete at that time.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 01:21:45 PM by TheHighwayMan394 »
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Bickendan

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #773 on: August 10, 2018, 05:11:22 PM »

So who decommed 16 first - SD or MN?
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froggie

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #774 on: August 10, 2018, 06:59:40 PM »

According to RVDroz's old website, Minnesota finished theirs first.  But it was all submitted through and approved by AASHTO at the same time for all three states.
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