US 31 freeway gap in Michigan finally will be filled (well 1 of them anyway)

[Flint1979]

I just drove on that highway last time I went to Indiana and don't even think it's needed. There isn't much traffic that uses the northern end of the St. Joseph Valley Parkway I'd say less than 10,000 VPD. I'd just leave it the way it is screw it.

Doesn't matter, it's still a gap in the system. For freight and long haul traffic, it's an important connection.

About 12,000 AADT use the freeway south of Napier Ave, and about 15,000 AADT on Napier Ave.

It's beneficial to both local and through traffic to provide a proper connection to I-94 (regardless of interchange configuration) rather than continue to dump it onto local roadways.

The only gap is that it's not a freeway which isn't a requirement for US highways so I don't get where this gap is at. US-31 is signed on all routes in the area that it travels on. And those numbers shouldn't require a freeway anyway. In my area of Michigan both M-58 and M-84 carry around 30,000 VPD and they are both multi lane roads just like Napier Avenue is. Napier is two lanes in each direction with a center turn lane in that area, it goes down to a two lane road east of Blue Creek Road.

Protecting some butterflies is their reason why they couldn't extend the freeway to connect to I-196. To me that's a ridiculous reason and all it would take is an S-curve to avoid some development between Highland Avenue and Territorial Road. A slight S curve would be needed anyway to connect the two freeways.


There is no gap. US-31 is signed on Napier, I-94 and I-196. If there was a gap then it would end somewhere and pick up again like IN-22 does in Kokomo and IN-25 does in Lafayette even though those are Indiana State Roads. The only gap is a freeway gap where it's not a freeway for about a mile or two.

[Flint1979]

they could have done something like 31 and 465 in carmel, the us 31 movements are limited access, the meridian st movements are not. but they fucked that one up too with incorrect lane drops for the movements that matter.

LMAO I used that interchange to turn around on I-465 one day and ended up getting flicked off by someone for what reason I really don't know I thought it was hilarious though. I was rolling SB on US-31 and this guy comes to a dead stop in the road and flicks me off.

[The Ghostbuster]

I've looked at the US 31 North/Interstate 465 Loop interchange configuration, and I would agree that would be a better way to complete the Interstate 94/Business Route 94/US 31 interchange than what they have proposed. Alas, it is not meant to be.

[sprjus4]

I just drove on that highway last time I went to Indiana and don't even think it's needed. There isn't much traffic that uses the northern end of the St. Joseph Valley Parkway I'd say less than 10,000 VPD. I'd just leave it the way it is screw it.

Doesn't matter, it's still a gap in the system. For freight and long haul traffic, it's an important connection.

About 12,000 AADT use the freeway south of Napier Ave, and about 15,000 AADT on Napier Ave.

It's beneficial to both local and through traffic to provide a proper connection to I-94 (regardless of interchange configuration) rather than continue to dump it onto local roadways.

The only gap is that it's not a freeway which isn't a requirement for US highways so I don't get where this gap is at. US-31 is signed on all routes in the area that it travels on. And those numbers shouldn't require a freeway anyway. In my area of Michigan both M-58 and M-84 carry around 30,000 VPD and they are both multi lane roads just like Napier Avenue is. Napier is two lanes in each direction with a center turn lane in that area, it goes down to a two lane road east of Blue Creek Road.

Protecting some butterflies is their reason why they couldn't extend the freeway to connect to I-196. To me that's a ridiculous reason and all it would take is an S-curve to avoid some development between Highland Avenue and Territorial Road. A slight S curve would be needed anyway to connect the two freeways.


There is no gap. US-31 is signed on Napier, I-94 and I-196. If there was a gap then it would end somewhere and pick up again like IN-22 does in Kokomo and IN-25 does in Lafayette even though those are Indiana State Roads. The only gap is a freeway gap where it's not a freeway for about a mile or two.

It's a gap in over 140 miles of continuous freeway between Plymouth and Grand Rapids.

For through traffic, US-31 is not continuous. You're forced to exit at a freeway stub, travel down an arterial roadway, and re-enter I-96 at a diamond interchange. It would be slightly more acceptable if it was at least continuous, transitioning from freeway to arterial back to freeway.

Regionally, it's beneficial to fill this obvious gap in the freeway system, even if it does not have a red-and-blue shield. If it was a mostly arterial route, it would be more acceptable. But the ultimate build for US-31 was a full freeway, and using Napier Ave was a temporary setup.

[Flint1979]

I just drove on that highway last time I went to Indiana and don't even think it's needed. There isn't much traffic that uses the northern end of the St. Joseph Valley Parkway I'd say less than 10,000 VPD. I'd just leave it the way it is screw it.

Doesn't matter, it's still a gap in the system. For freight and long haul traffic, it's an important connection.

About 12,000 AADT use the freeway south of Napier Ave, and about 15,000 AADT on Napier Ave.

It's beneficial to both local and through traffic to provide a proper connection to I-94 (regardless of interchange configuration) rather than continue to dump it onto local roadways.

The only gap is that it's not a freeway which isn't a requirement for US highways so I don't get where this gap is at. US-31 is signed on all routes in the area that it travels on. And those numbers shouldn't require a freeway anyway. In my area of Michigan both M-58 and M-84 carry around 30,000 VPD and they are both multi lane roads just like Napier Avenue is. Napier is two lanes in each direction with a center turn lane in that area, it goes down to a two lane road east of Blue Creek Road.

Protecting some butterflies is their reason why they couldn't extend the freeway to connect to I-196. To me that's a ridiculous reason and all it would take is an S-curve to avoid some development between Highland Avenue and Territorial Road. A slight S curve would be needed anyway to connect the two freeways.


There is no gap. US-31 is signed on Napier, I-94 and I-196. If there was a gap then it would end somewhere and pick up again like IN-22 does in Kokomo and IN-25 does in Lafayette even though those are Indiana State Roads. The only gap is a freeway gap where it's not a freeway for about a mile or two.

It's a gap in over 140 miles of continuous freeway between Plymouth and Grand Rapids.

For through traffic, US-31 is not continuous. You're forced to exit at a freeway stub, travel down an arterial roadway, and re-enter I-96 at a diamond interchange. It would be slightly more acceptable if it was at least continuous, transitioning from freeway to arterial back to freeway.

Regionally, it's beneficial to fill this obvious gap in the freeway system, even if it does not have a red-and-blue shield. If it was a mostly arterial route, it would be more acceptable. But the ultimate build for US-31 was a full freeway, and using Napier Ave was a temporary setup.

It's a US highway there's no requirement for it to be a freeway. US-31 doesn't even go through Grand Rapids it breaks off in Holland that's US-131 that goes through GR. You mean I-94 instead of 96? Napier is built to handle the volumes of traffic it gets.

[sparker]

I just drove on that highway last time I went to Indiana and don't even think it's needed. There isn't much traffic that uses the northern end of the St. Joseph Valley Parkway I'd say less than 10,000 VPD. I'd just leave it the way it is screw it.

Doesn't matter, it's still a gap in the system. For freight and long haul traffic, it's an important connection.

About 12,000 AADT use the freeway south of Napier Ave, and about 15,000 AADT on Napier Ave.

It's beneficial to both local and through traffic to provide a proper connection to I-94 (regardless of interchange configuration) rather than continue to dump it onto local roadways.

The only gap is that it's not a freeway which isn't a requirement for US highways so I don't get where this gap is at. US-31 is signed on all routes in the area that it travels on. And those numbers shouldn't require a freeway anyway. In my area of Michigan both M-58 and M-84 carry around 30,000 VPD and they are both multi lane roads just like Napier Avenue is. Napier is two lanes in each direction with a center turn lane in that area, it goes down to a two lane road east of Blue Creek Road.

Protecting some butterflies is their reason why they couldn't extend the freeway to connect to I-196. To me that's a ridiculous reason and all it would take is an S-curve to avoid some development between Highland Avenue and Territorial Road. A slight S curve would be needed anyway to connect the two freeways.


There is no gap. US-31 is signed on Napier, I-94 and I-196. If there was a gap then it would end somewhere and pick up again like IN-22 does in Kokomo and IN-25 does in Lafayette even though those are Indiana State Roads. The only gap is a freeway gap where it's not a freeway for about a mile or two.

It's a gap in over 140 miles of continuous freeway between Plymouth and Grand Rapids.

For through traffic, US-31 is not continuous. You're forced to exit at a freeway stub, travel down an arterial roadway, and re-enter I-96 at a diamond interchange. It would be slightly more acceptable if it was at least continuous, transitioning from freeway to arterial back to freeway.

Regionally, it's beneficial to fill this obvious gap in the freeway system, even if it does not have a red-and-blue shield. If it was a mostly arterial route, it would be more acceptable. But the ultimate build for US-31 was a full freeway, and using Napier Ave was a temporary setup.

It's a US highway there's no requirement for it to be a freeway. US-31 doesn't even go through Grand Rapids it breaks off in Holland that's US-131 that goes through GR. You mean I-94 instead of 96? Napier is built to handle the volumes of traffic it gets.

Since I-196 and US 31 are coincidental between I-94 and just south of Holland, filling the "gap" with a free-flowing interchange would provide a continuous freeway between Plymouth, IN and Grand Rapids (and, perhaps, all the way to the north end of the US 131 freeway at Manton) -- even though there would be the TOTSO's at the US 20/31 junction south of South Bend as well as the interchange that's the subject of this thread.  But this isn't the first rodeo for the speculative "I-67" concept; originally MI requested that number for what is now I-196 when the 96/196 "swap" occurred circa 1964, but AASHO (as it was known then) turned them down.

[silverback1065]

I just drove on that highway last time I went to Indiana and don't even think it's needed. There isn't much traffic that uses the northern end of the St. Joseph Valley Parkway I'd say less than 10,000 VPD. I'd just leave it the way it is screw it.

Doesn't matter, it's still a gap in the system. For freight and long haul traffic, it's an important connection.

About 12,000 AADT use the freeway south of Napier Ave, and about 15,000 AADT on Napier Ave.

It's beneficial to both local and through traffic to provide a proper connection to I-94 (regardless of interchange configuration) rather than continue to dump it onto local roadways.

The only gap is that it's not a freeway which isn't a requirement for US highways so I don't get where this gap is at. US-31 is signed on all routes in the area that it travels on. And those numbers shouldn't require a freeway anyway. In my area of Michigan both M-58 and M-84 carry around 30,000 VPD and they are both multi lane roads just like Napier Avenue is. Napier is two lanes in each direction with a center turn lane in that area, it goes down to a two lane road east of Blue Creek Road.

Protecting some butterflies is their reason why they couldn't extend the freeway to connect to I-196. To me that's a ridiculous reason and all it would take is an S-curve to avoid some development between Highland Avenue and Territorial Road. A slight S curve would be needed anyway to connect the two freeways.


There is no gap. US-31 is signed on Napier, I-94 and I-196. If there was a gap then it would end somewhere and pick up again like IN-22 does in Kokomo and IN-25 does in Lafayette even though those are Indiana State Roads. The only gap is a freeway gap where it's not a freeway for about a mile or two.

It's a gap in over 140 miles of continuous freeway between Plymouth and Grand Rapids.

For through traffic, US-31 is not continuous. You're forced to exit at a freeway stub, travel down an arterial roadway, and re-enter I-96 at a diamond interchange. It would be slightly more acceptable if it was at least continuous, transitioning from freeway to arterial back to freeway.

Regionally, it's beneficial to fill this obvious gap in the freeway system, even if it does not have a red-and-blue shield. If it was a mostly arterial route, it would be more acceptable. But the ultimate build for US-31 was a full freeway, and using Napier Ave was a temporary setup.

It's a US highway there's no requirement for it to be a freeway. US-31 doesn't even go through Grand Rapids it breaks off in Holland that's US-131 that goes through GR. You mean I-94 instead of 96? Napier is built to handle the volumes of traffic it gets.

Since I-196 and US 31 are coincidental between I-94 and just south of Holland, filling the "gap" with a free-flowing interchange would provide a continuous freeway between Plymouth, IN and Grand Rapids (and, perhaps, all the way to the north end of the US 131 freeway at Manton) -- even though there would be the TOTSO's at the US 20/31 junction south of South Bend as well as the interchange that's the subject of this thread.  But this isn't the first rodeo for the speculative "I-67" concept; originally MI requested that number for what is now I-196 when the 96/196 "swap" occurred circa 1964, but AASHO (as it was known then) turned them down.

the us 20/31 interchange is at least limited access, although the approach to it is substandard.

[Avalanchez71]

Does anyone know if any stimulus money is going to be used to fill in the non-freeway gaps along US-31 in Michigan?  I know work was supposed to begin on M-231 (to be built as a 2 lane road along the future US-31 freeway ROW and later converted when funds are in place-sounds really stupid to me) from I-96 to M-45 next year I believe, but I was wondering if the stimulus package would allow for it to be built as a 4 lane freeway sooner.  Also it seems like the Napier Ave to I-94 connection should be about ready to be built one way or the other.  Actually it should have been built years, if not decades ago.  The MDOT site is of absolutely no use.  They haven't updated either of these pages in years and seem to be very guarded about any kind of information about future projects in general, kind of like the military and the government giving out info about UFO sightings.  It would really be nice to get these projects completed during my lifetime.

What gap with US 31?  The travelling public should be lucky that even .01 miles of limited access highway was built.

[Ryctor2018]

This is not related to the new construction in SW Michigan, but at the northern end of the U.S. 31 freeway. Can someone summarize what was supposed to happen to the northern extension of the freeway. Now it ends at U.S. 10, with ghost ramps.
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9550273,-86.3841918,1556m/data=!3m1!1e3

Ghost ramps are not as common in Michigan as in other states. Usually highways are built to completion, not constructed or in a "holding pattern", like the southern U.S. 31 between Niles & Benton Harbor.

[JREwing78]

This is not related to the new construction in SW Michigan, but at the northern end of the U.S. 31 freeway. Can someone summarize what was supposed to happen to the northern extension of the freeway. Now it ends at U.S. 10, with ghost ramps.
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9550273,-86.3841918,1556m/data=!3m1!1e3

Ghost ramps are not as common in Michigan as in other states. Usually highways are built to completion, not constructed or in a "holding pattern", like the southern U.S. 31 between Niles & Benton Harbor.

It was eventually supposed to be built out as freeway all the way to Mackinac City. Due to a host of reasons (financial, NIMBY, etc), it hasn't been completed yet. It's not likely to anytime soon, short of a massive cash infusion at MDOT. There's a lot of higher-priority expansions, not least of which is the Holland/Grand Haven US-31 bypass.

Most folks currently headed for Traverse City from points south would follow I-196 to US-131 to north of Manton. If anything, MDOT would tie any roadway expansions for Traverse City-bound traffic to US-131 (and eventually I-75) before US-31 gets expanded northward.

[Terry Shea]

Does anyone know if any stimulus money is going to be used to fill in the non-freeway gaps along US-31 in Michigan?  I know work was supposed to begin on M-231 (to be built as a 2 lane road along the future US-31 freeway ROW and later converted when funds are in place-sounds really stupid to me) from I-96 to M-45 next year I believe, but I was wondering if the stimulus package would allow for it to be built as a 4 lane freeway sooner.  Also it seems like the Napier Ave to I-94 connection should be about ready to be built one way or the other.  Actually it should have been built years, if not decades ago.  The MDOT site is of absolutely no use.  They haven't updated either of these pages in years and seem to be very guarded about any kind of information about future projects in general, kind of like the military and the government giving out info about UFO sightings.  It would really be nice to get these projects completed during my lifetime.

What gap with US 31?  The travelling public should be lucky that even .01 miles of limited access highway was built.

What are you talking about?

[Flint1979]

Does anyone know if any stimulus money is going to be used to fill in the non-freeway gaps along US-31 in Michigan?  I know work was supposed to begin on M-231 (to be built as a 2 lane road along the future US-31 freeway ROW and later converted when funds are in place-sounds really stupid to me) from I-96 to M-45 next year I believe, but I was wondering if the stimulus package would allow for it to be built as a 4 lane freeway sooner.  Also it seems like the Napier Ave to I-94 connection should be about ready to be built one way or the other.  Actually it should have been built years, if not decades ago.  The MDOT site is of absolutely no use.  They haven't updated either of these pages in years and seem to be very guarded about any kind of information about future projects in general, kind of like the military and the government giving out info about UFO sightings.  It would really be nice to get these projects completed during my lifetime.

What gap with US 31?  The travelling public should be lucky that even .01 miles of limited access highway was built.

What are you talking about?

Quoting a post of yours that's 11 years old.

[Flint1979]

This is not related to the new construction in SW Michigan, but at the northern end of the U.S. 31 freeway. Can someone summarize what was supposed to happen to the northern extension of the freeway. Now it ends at U.S. 10, with ghost ramps.
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9550273,-86.3841918,1556m/data=!3m1!1e3

Ghost ramps are not as common in Michigan as in other states. Usually highways are built to completion, not constructed or in a "holding pattern", like the southern U.S. 31 between Niles & Benton Harbor.

It was eventually supposed to be built out as freeway all the way to Mackinac City. Due to a host of reasons (financial, NIMBY, etc), it hasn't been completed yet. It's not likely to anytime soon, short of a massive cash infusion at MDOT. There's a lot of higher-priority expansions, not least of which is the Holland/Grand Haven US-31 bypass.

Most folks currently headed for Traverse City from points south would follow I-196 to US-131 to north of Manton. If anything, MDOT would tie any roadway expansions for Traverse City-bound traffic to US-131 (and eventually I-75) before US-31 gets expanded northward.

It'll never go all the way to Mackinaw City as a freeway. There just isn't enough traffic volumes to warrant it in the first place.

[silverback1065]

The gap in the holland area will be filled eventually i hope. north of us 10 doesn't seem needed.

[sprjus4]

Around 7,000 - 8,000 AADT.

Could warrant being at least a 4 lane divided highway.

[Flint1979]

The gap in the holland area will be filled eventually i hope. north of us 10 doesn't seem needed.

Doesn't warrant it there really either. US-31 is already a divided highway with 3 lanes in each direction in the Holland area then goes down to 2 lanes in each direction still as a divided highway until Grand Haven then north of there it becomes a freeway.

[hotdogPi]

Around 7,000 - 8,000 AADT.

Could warrant being at least a 4 lane divided highway.

Massachusetts is considering a road diet (from two per direction to one per direction plus two-way left turn lane) on a road with a maximum of 19,000 AADT. Two-lane roads can handle over 20,000 AADT, as seen in this thread. Is 7,000-8,000 really enough to widen?

[Flint1979]

Around 7,000 - 8,000 AADT.

Could warrant being at least a 4 lane divided highway.

Massachusetts is considering a road diet (from two per direction to one per direction plus two-way left turn lane) on a road with a maximum of 19,000 AADT. Two-lane roads can handle over 20,000 AADT, as seen in this thread. Is 7,000-8,000 really enough to widen?

MDOT has done that in a couple of places, just the last two years on I-475 on the north end of Flint and not too far away from there M-54 south of Clio was dieted down to 1 lane in each direction with a center turning lane for a couple of miles. When I-475 starts out it's two lanes in each direction but as it gets into the city of Flint it's three lanes in each direction well they just reconstructed the north end from Clio Road to Carpenter and took out the third lane until south of Carpenter. It use to start at Saginaw Road.

[silverback1065]

The gap in the holland area will be filled eventually i hope. north of us 10 doesn't seem needed.

Doesn't warrant it there really either. US-31 is already a divided highway with 3 lanes in each direction in the Holland area then goes down to 2 lanes in each direction still as a divided highway until Grand Haven then north of there it becomes a freeway.

it definitely does need it, crashes and the fact that it's 30 mph through the heart of grand haven is unacceptable. it wouldn't even be hard to do the conversion on top of existing in holland.

[Flint1979]

The gap in the holland area will be filled eventually i hope. north of us 10 doesn't seem needed.

Doesn't warrant it there really either. US-31 is already a divided highway with 3 lanes in each direction in the Holland area then goes down to 2 lanes in each direction still as a divided highway until Grand Haven then north of there it becomes a freeway.

it definitely does need it, crashes and the fact that it's 30 mph through the heart of grand haven is unacceptable. it wouldn't even be hard to do the conversion on top of existing in holland.

M-231 has already been built to supplement US-31 through Grand Haven. I don't know how a 30 mph speed limit on a US highway through the heart of a city is unacceptable.

[sprjus4]

M-231 has already been built to supplement US-31 through Grand Haven. I don't know how a 30 mph speed limit on a US highway through the heart of a city is unacceptable.

It's a major north-south highway with high traffic volumes - it warrants some sort of upgrades.

You seem to have this attitude that because it's not an interstate highway that it shouldn't be a freeway.

[sprjus4]

Massachusetts is considering a road diet (from two per direction to one per direction plus two-way left turn lane) on a road with a maximum of 19,000 AADT. Two-lane roads can handle over 20,000 AADT, as seen in this thread. Is 7,000-8,000 really enough to widen?

Is the road an urban arterial, or a rural highway?

Higher speeds, long distance traffic, truck traffic, increased need for passing opportunities tend to warrant 4 lanes on rural corridors with lower AADT than on urban arterials.

Look at Virginia's 4 lane divided highway system - specifically US-58. Carries 5,000 AADT, even down to 3,000 AADT in areas, and is still being widened to 4 lanes closer to I-77 - with the bulk of the work between Stuart and South Hill complete in the last 20 years.

[Flint1979]

M-231 has already been built to supplement US-31 through Grand Haven. I don't know how a 30 mph speed limit on a US highway through the heart of a city is unacceptable.

It's a major north-south highway with high traffic volumes - it warrants some sort of upgrades.

You seem to have this attitude that because it's not an interstate highway that it shouldn't be a freeway.

A bypass route has been built it shouldn't need an upgrade when the route passes through the downtown of a city most people will use the bypass route. Most places the bypass is the main route but in this case it's not.

No I have the attitude that if it's a freeway it doesn't automatically need to be an Interstate highway. All changing things around does is causes confusion. I don't see the need to make US-23 an Interstate like some people do, same with US-127, US-10 and US-131. M-53 is a freeway in Macomb County with no connections to an Interstate at either end nor does it intersect with an Interstate, does that need to be one?

M-231 isn't a freeway but it's a high speed two lane road with a 65 mph speed limit so it's not like there isn't an option to bypass downtown Grand Haven.

[silverback1065]

what is so confusing about changing the numbering to interstates? california did it years ago and no one seemed to have a problem with it. also 231 isnt a good bypass as it doesnt actually connect with 31 at all. but michigan loves half stepping everything on roads it's not surprising.

[hotdogPi]

what is so confusing about changing the numbering to interstates? california did it years ago and no one seemed to have a problem with it. also 231 isnt a good bypass as it doesnt actually connect with 31 at all. but michigan loves half stepping everything on roads it's not surprising.

California didn't change most of their state routes to Interstates. They still have a whole bunch of state route freeways.

1, 2, 4, 13, 14, 15, 17, 22, 23, 24, 33, 37, 41, 47, 52, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 65, 67, 70, 71, 73, 75, 78, 84, 85, 87, 91, 92, 94, 99, 103, 110, 118, 120, 125, 126, 132, 133, 134, 160, 163, 168, 170, 180, 210, 237, 241, 242, 261, 905. I might be missing a few.