Crash in the Bronx Zoo

[SSOWorld]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/29/us/new-york-fatal-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

This usually isn't something we would read about but I find this intriguing.  They're considering speed to be a cause of the accident.  I've seen it circulating on Facebook between contacts as well.  Brings up the debate of "speed kills".  I wonder if that is what really is the cause - or might it be distracted/inattentive driving?

[agentsteel53]

the cause seems to be "fucking things up when you strike the barrier".  that's a minor problem that can be turned into a major one by reacting incorrectly.

[mgk920]

Sounds more to me like 'driving too fast for conditions' - AKA 'boneheadedness'.



Mike

[formulanone]

CNN's comments are as bad as YouTube's.

[Brandon]

Speed is usually used as an excuse for an accident without probing into the real cause.

Was the driver distracted?
Did the driver have a medical issue?
Was the driver drunk (as in the wrong-way drivers on I-94 Monday morning here)?
Did the vehicle have a mechanical problem causing a loss of control?
Did the driver attempt to avoid someone else driving recklessly?
Did the driver attempt something that the vehicle cannot do safely?

None of these have anything to do with speed as they can happen at high speeds or low speeds.  Yet, speed is easy to blame.  They could have been driving along at or below the speed limit and still gone over the barrier.

[kphoger]

(1)  Speed is cited as a contributing factor in an accident if it can be determined that the car was going in excess of the speed limit (and I'm guessing that a witness report stating, 'Yeah, he seemed to be going a little fast,' would probably count).  It doesn't matter if 100% of the traffic on the road was also speeding, it gets called a speed-related accident.

(2)  I don't think the exact split is published, but it's common knowledge in the statistical sphere that the majority of speed-related accidents are actually people who were travelling too fast for conditions in inclement weather, i.e. the posted speed limit had nothing to do with it.  Then people turn around and use the high number of speed-related accidents to call for lower speed limits.  Hello!

[SidS1045]

The causes of the accident, according to the police, were excessive speed (68.5mph in a 50mph zone, on a road that really can't handle anything that fast) and poor roadway design (two-foot-high curbs instead of a shoulder/breakdown lane).  The driver lost control and struck the center divider, which blew the left front tire off its rim.  The rim then dug into the pavement and forced the vehicle to veer sharply right, crossing the entire roadway and hitting the curb, which vaulted it up over the four-foot fence behind the curb and down 60 feet into an unused part of the Bronx Zoo.

Everyone in the Honda Pilot was either wearing a seat belt or was in a child seat, and all seven people died of blunt-force trauma.

Yesterday NYSDOT started putting up Jersey barriers on three BRP viaducts, including the one where Sunday's crash occurred.  The barriers are in front of the two-foot-high curb, so vehicles can't jump over it.

The BRP is consistently named as one of the worst roads in NYS.  I was on it a few years ago and thought the 50mph speed limit was too fast.  Between the road's general condition (full of potholes that a family of four could bathe in) and its ancient design, I was afraid to go even 45.

[agentsteel53]

The driver lost control and struck the center divider, which blew the left front tire off its rim.  The rim then dug into the pavement and forced the vehicle to veer sharply right,

I'm not sure if I'm understanding the physics of the situation.  my intuition dictates that if the left front rim is acting as a glorified kickstand, the vehicle would spin sharply counterclockwise.

[kphoger]

The causes of the accident, according to the police, were excessive speed (68.5mph in a 50mph zone, on a road that really can't handle anything that fast) and poor roadway design (two-foot-high curbs instead of a shoulder/breakdown lane).

The driver lost control and struck the center divider, which blew the left front tire off its rim.  The rim then dug into the pavement and forced the vehicle to veer sharply right, crossing the entire roadway and hitting the curb, which vaulted it up over the four-foot fence behind the curb and down 60 feet into an unused part of the Bronx Zoo.

Boy, those two things contradict, don't they?  The driver lost control of the vehicle, yet it gets tallied under the 'speed-related' category.  If they had lost control at 50 mph, would things have turned out differently?

[Brandon]

The causes of the accident, according to the police, were excessive speed (68.5mph in a 50mph zone, on a road that really can't handle anything that fast) and poor roadway design (two-foot-high curbs instead of a shoulder/breakdown lane).

The driver lost control and struck the center divider, which blew the left front tire off its rim.  The rim then dug into the pavement and forced the vehicle to veer sharply right, crossing the entire roadway and hitting the curb, which vaulted it up over the four-foot fence behind the curb and down 60 feet into an unused part of the Bronx Zoo.

Boy, those two things contradict, don't they?  The driver lost control of the vehicle, yet it gets tallied under the 'speed-related' category.  If they had lost control at 50 mph, would things have turned out differently?

Probably not.  Even at 50mph, one could still vault a curb like that.  It still sounds like a driver error issue though.

[Duke87]

The curb on that viaduct has always struck me as odd. I'd assumed the "shoulder" on the other side of it was intended to be some sort of walkway, but there isn't access to it for it to act as one. I suspect it may have been installed to keep vehicles from hitting the flimsy guardrail, but unfortunately I can also see how if you hit it the wrong way it can instead assist you in flipping over the guardrail. More of a barrier is definitely the solution, although I wonder how much of a bandaid that work really is until that whole viaduct needs to be renovated or replaced anyway - it's definitely seen better days.

As for speed, typical traffic makes it impossible to go 68 MPH through that particular spot, but I wouldn't blink at doing so if it was open enough to.

[D-Dey65]

Just out of curiosity, wasn't this where the extension of Sheridan Expressway was supposed to go?

[Duke87]

Had it been built, the rest of the Sheridan would have passed under the BRP in that area, yes. But, the viaduct exists to bridge over the IRT 2/5 subway lines and accompanying E. 180th Street yard. It should be noted that the construction of the BRP predates planning for the Sheridan, but the subway was already there.

[D-Dey65]

I thought so. I knew about the IRT White Plains Road Line and the former New York, Westchester and Boston Railroad line being there too as well.

[SidS1045]

I'm not sure if I'm understanding the physics of the situation.  my intuition dictates that if the left front rim is acting as a glorified kickstand, the vehicle would spin sharply counterclockwise.

If I recall the pictures I saw of the crash site, the center barrier is a Jersey barrier, so what may have happened is that the driver tapped it, and even though that supposedly broke the tire's bead from the wheel, the SUV would have tended to steer itself back onto the roadway.  However, since it was now riding on the left front rim and not the tire, steering control was probably non-existent.

I am not an accident reconstructor, nor do I play one on TV...