Dear WisDOT, roundabouts have their benefits, but...

[hobsini2]

Going to be slightly off topic but:
"Left Lane Law

Read:  Completely off topic, not the slightest bit related.

Or am I missing something?

Yes you missed something. read the end of Reply post 16 by 1995hoo.

[kphoger]

Going to be slightly off topic but:
"Left Lane Law

Read:  Completely off topic, not the slightest bit related.

Or am I missing something?

Yes you missed something. read the end of Reply post 16 by 1995hoo.

Ah, yes, I had read that post.  But, since you didn't quote it in your post, I assumed your post was not related to it.  So the inference is that left-lane hogging being bad is a new phenomenon, just as the use of roundabouts is a new phenomenon.  It's all gelling together in my head now. 

[agentsteel53]

Fair enough. You know what I meant–they think something's wrong with their brakes and they release the pedal, which is exactly the wrong thing to do.

good grief!  I've never known anyone who did that.  ABS has been mandatory for over 20 years.

[hobsini2]

kp, my bad. I did use A quote from 1995hoo. Just the wrong one. That would have cut the confusion out.   

[kphoger]

Fair enough. You know what I meant–they think something's wrong with their brakes and they release the pedal, which is exactly the wrong thing to do.

good grief!  I've never known anyone who did that.  ABS has been mandatory for over 20 years.

Well, if they learned to drive without ABS, and have never had the ABS kick in since the change.....then, yeah, I could see that.  I remember the first time I felt ABS kick in; I freaked out a little bit at first, but it only took about two seconds to figure out what I was hearing and feeling.  That 1999 Stratus's ABS was so good that I used to TRY and get it to spin out in the snow, and it just wouldn't do it.

[J N Winkler]

good grief!  I've never known anyone who did that.  ABS has been mandatory for over 20 years.

Actually, no:  ABS is still not mandatory for private passenger cars in the US and it has been so in the EU only since 2007.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antilock_brakes#Regulation

It has been difficult to find a new car in the US without ABS since about 1992, but I don't think that development has been driven (except indirectly) by passenger car safety standards.

[agentsteel53]

I've had it kick in several times.  the fun part is when it fails to kick in (likely because all four wheels are skidding).  I had to manually pump my brakes to stop in Fairbanks about a month ago.  Went about 10 feet into the intersection.  Luckily, it was red southbound (me) and green arrow turning from eastbound to northbound, so I had that 10 feet to give.

[texaskdog]

I hate antilock brakes.  It assumes I'm too stupid to know how to use my brakes.  Many a time I almost hit someone because I needed my full brakes, not brakes that stopped working halfway through.

[corco]

It has been difficult to find a new car in the US without ABS since about 1992, but I don't think that development has been driven (except indirectly) by passenger car safety standards.

Two of the three post-1992 cars I've driven regularly have been minus ABS (1997 Jeep Wrangler, 1997 Ford Escort)

I hate antilock brakes.  It assumes I'm too stupid to know how to use my brakes.  Many a time I almost hit someone because I needed my full brakes, not brakes that stopped working halfway through.

This. Worse is traction control, where if you already know how to correctively maneuver and do it, the car will also do it and overcorrect. I remember nearly driving a rental Malibu into the ditch a couple years ago- I was driving up an uphill icy ramp onto a dry freeway in Colorado Springs, so needed to get up to speed even though it was icy. The plan was to gas, gas, gas to get up to speed and let my foot off for a second and correct whenever I started to lose traction- gravity would take care of the rest since I was going up hill. I've done similar maneuvers dozens if not hundreds of times.

Of course the dashboard starts flashing a "WARNING YOU HAVE NO TRACTION" light, which is distracting when you assume the dashboard was flashing an actual problem (if you don't realize you don't have traction, you really shouldn't be driving), and then the thing starts corrective braking the opposite direction from how I was trying to corrective steer, making life a real pain in the butt. I ended up merging onto the freeway just fine...at 35. I could have easily been doing 60-65 if the car would have let me just drive. I turned off traction control for the remainder of the wintery trip and the Malibu did just fine.

[Crazy Volvo Guy]

Roundabouts offer increased capacity and safety compared to traffic signals.

Respectfully, I have found that the only people who seem to have a problem with roundabouts are those who either can't figure out how to drive through them, or those who fear any kind of change.

I know how to use roundabouts just fine and dandy, living in New England with its traffic circles for 15 years.  Roundabouts are the same concept, just smaller.

Four roundabouts in a row are better than four stoplights in a row at peak traffic time.  At all other times, all the signalling and weaving back and forth is extremely irritating.  And you have to signal properly even at 3AM, because as soon as you don't, right there just out of your obvious view will be sitting the cop who had a bad shift and wants to take it out on someone...bam!...your failure to signal is his probable cause for a traffic stop.

It seems to me that most of the roundabouts could have been avoided and the intersection count on Breezewood could have been cut in half with the use of slip ramps and one new ramp, but what do I know?  I'm just a lowly road user... I smell traffic calming in this.

[formulanone]

good grief!  I've never known anyone who did that.  ABS has been mandatory for over 20 years.

Actually, no:  ABS is still not mandatory for private passenger cars in the US and it has been so in the EU only since 2007.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antilock_brakes#Regulation

It has been difficult to find a new car in the US without ABS since about 1992, but I don't think that development has been driven (except indirectly) by passenger car safety standards.

My 2009 Scion doesn't have them, which is fine by me. Most new vehicles over $20k have ABS, but lots of econoboxes and base-model trucks don't. Traction / Stability Control is almost good as mandatory, although also not ubiquitous. However, Tire Pressure Monitoring Systems have been required since the 2009 model year.

Roundabouts and traffic circles are more fun, to me.

[Crazy Volvo Guy]

I don't mind them too much, as long as their use isn't excessive.  They're fun to drift around at 3AM as long as the cops aren't looking.

[tdindy88]

Back to the notion of Carmel, Indiana being the Roundabout capital, consider this new rendering for the 136th Street interchange at US 31 being built.

http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/assets/images/maps/b_136th-roundabout.jpg

If you are coming in from the east along 136th Street (Smokey Row Road) and want to continue on 136th Street west of US 31, you will have to pass FIVE roundabouts to get there. If you're coming in from St. Vincent Hospital (lower left of the picture) to head west on 136th Street west of US 31, you will have to pass six. I personally have nothing against roundabouts and I like them better than four way stops and stoplights, as long as they are on good roads and not expressways, but this may be a little overkill even for Carmel's standards. Just something to consider.

[english si]

The two roundabouts under US31 there would function like one roundabout, just elongated and squished in the middle. See this as an example of what such a 'dogbone' roundabout looks like.

Part of the problem in the US is the, number of entries, exits and lanes, and the diameter of, modern roundabouts. In the UK, we have no beef with 5 roads on a roundabout. That straight line of 4 roundabouts, would be two roundabouts (or perhaps one dogbone) in the UK, because we'd have bigger roundabouts, with 5 exits and 5 entrances. Also, that junction has a lot of little slip roads to turn right avoiding the motorway.

[triplemultiplex]

And you have to signal properly even at 3AM, because as soon as you don't, right there just out of your obvious view will be sitting the cop who had a bad shift and wants to take it out on someone...bam!...your failure to signal is his probable cause for a traffic stop.

This being Wisconsin, any trouble a driver has negotiating a roundabout at 3 AM is a pretty good indication that they are coming from a bar.
Actually, that's a pretty good reason to have more roundabouts in Wisconsin.  After all, I'm pretty sure we still lead the nation in per capita OWI.  It's a lot harder to get T-boned by a drunk in a roundabout.

[JREwing78]

good grief!  I've never known anyone who did that.  ABS has been mandatory for over 20 years.

Actually, no:  ABS is still not mandatory for private passenger cars in the US and it has been so in the EU only since 2007.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antilock_brakes#Regulation

It has been difficult to find a new car in the US without ABS since about 1992, but I don't think that development has been driven (except indirectly) by passenger car safety standards.

You are correct. However, Electronic Stability Control (based on anti-lock brakes) was mandated on all 2012 model year vehicles in the United States. This means all 2012 and newer vehicles come with anti-lock brakes by default.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_stability_control#Regulation

[JREwing78]

I hate antilock brakes.  It assumes I'm too stupid to know how to use my brakes.  Many a time I almost hit someone because I needed my full brakes, not brakes that stopped working halfway through.

Austin, TX, huh? The closest thing you have to a slick road there is after a rain storm. ABS is invaluable in the frozen north, where ice and snow are commonplace.

I've never encountered the issue you describe on dry pavement. Then again, you generally have to be in a full-on panic stop to ever set off the ABS in those conditions. If you're setting off the ABS, you're not getting more braking anyway.

[texaskdog]

I hate antilock brakes.  It assumes I'm too stupid to know how to use my brakes.  Many a time I almost hit someone because I needed my full brakes, not brakes that stopped working halfway through.

Austin, TX, huh? The closest thing you have to a slick road there is after a rain storm. ABS is invaluable in the frozen north, where ice and snow are commonplace.

I've never encountered the issue you describe on dry pavement. Then again, you generally have to be in a full-on panic stop to ever set off the ABS in those conditions. If you're setting off the ABS, you're not getting more braking anyway.

When some idiot cut in front of me and I had to brake to not hit him.  Would have been far easier without them.

[qguy]

It has been difficult to find a new car in the US without ABS since about 1992...

In 08 I purchased a used 06 Chevy Impala that turned out to not have ABS. I learned that the first time I locked up the brakes on an icy road. I didn't even know any US cars were being manufactured without it. I looked up the specs online and sure enough, one of the variations of the Impala that year (with a particular engine and sport package) intentionally had no ABS. I couldn't find the rationale for the exclusion, though.

It was a little tough retraining myself. I had learned to drive without ABS of course, but got used to not pumping the brakes of late.

Lesson learned: assume nothing.

[NE2]

Many a time I almost hit someone because I needed my full brakes, not brakes that stopped working halfway through.

Sounds like you didn't need your full brakes, since you were able to stop in time.

[mgk920]

And you have to signal properly even at 3AM, because as soon as you don't, right there just out of your obvious view will be sitting the cop who had a bad shift and wants to take it out on someone...bam!...your failure to signal is his probable cause for a traffic stop.

This being Wisconsin, any trouble a driver has negotiating a roundabout at 3 AM is a pretty good indication that they are coming from a bar.
Actually, that's a pretty good reason to have more roundabouts in Wisconsin.  After all, I'm pretty sure we still lead the nation in per capita OWI.  It's a lot harder to get T-boned by a drunk in a roundabout.

There was a case here in Wisconsin about two or three years ago where a drunk hit a roundabout (IIRC, in Kiel, WI) at night at about 95 MPH/150 km/h.  He almost cleared the ditch on the opposite side.

Mike

[JREwing78]

I looked up the specs online and sure enough, one of the variations of the Impala that year (with a particular engine and sport package) intentionally had no ABS. I couldn't find the rationale for the exclusion, though.

Likely a former rental car; GM has been known to do up cheaper specials for fleets that are missing equipment which any consumer-bound model would have standard.

[texaskdog]

Many a time I almost hit someone because I needed my full brakes, not brakes that stopped working halfway through.

Sounds like you didn't need your full brakes, since you were able to stop in time.

I am a pretty good driver, no thanks to my brakes

[DaBigE]

This being Wisconsin, any trouble a driver has negotiating a roundabout at 3 AM is a pretty good indication that they are coming from a bar.
Actually, that's a pretty good reason to have more roundabouts in Wisconsin.  After all, I'm pretty sure we still lead the nation in per capita OWI.  It's a lot harder to get T-boned by a drunk in a roundabout.

There was a case here in Wisconsin about two or three years ago where a drunk hit a roundabout (IIRC, in Kiel, WI) at night at about 95 MPH/150 km/h.  He almost cleared the ditch on the opposite side.

Mike

There was another two years ago at a new roundabout associated with the US 12 reconstruction in the Dells/Lake Delton area.  A motorcyclist tried to pull an Evil Knievel (not necessarily on purpose) and launched himself over the central island and smack into a YIELD sign.
http://scanner.channel3000.com/4232/

[qguy]

I looked up the specs online and sure enough, one of the variations of the Impala that year (with a particular engine and sport package) intentionally had no ABS. I couldn't find the rationale for the exclusion, though.

Likely a former rental car; GM has been known to do up cheaper specials for fleets that are missing equipment which any consumer-bound model would have standard.

Anything's possible, I suppose, but according to the documentation I obtained independently, the car was privately owned by only one prior owner, a middle-aged single guy (in the neighborhood, as it turns out) who routinely purchases new cars, owns them for two years, and trades them in for a new another new car. (Expensive as all get-out, but whatever floats your boat if you can afford it...)

I just looked it up; I had the LS base model. All the Impalas that year had ABS except the LS base model. (Who knew?) Of course, as you say, GM may have manufactured the LS base model mostly for the rental market. I'll go with you on that.

Anyway, I guess we've pretty much exhausted what anyone may have *possibly* wanted to know about some car I once owned and the brakes it did or didn't have.