Interstate 93 Signing Work

[southshore720]

Why was "Andrew Square" preserved for Exit 16?  I didn't think that "squares" were MUTCD compliant.  "S. Boston" or "Newmarket" would have been more appropriate.

[Pete from Boston]

Newmarket Square, you mean?  Doesn't that repeat the problem? 

[Pete from Boston]

There is new signage for all approach BGS' for Exit 15 NB, one new one for Exit 16 NB, a new 2 1/4 mile approach for Exit 20 NB, and a new Exit 18 NB sign with a hazardous cargo banner on the bottom.  Hopefully Bob can take some pics soon for us!  He's done a great job so far!   

I has to drive into Boston last Wednesday and was able to get photos of the new signs. Here's the most interesting one given the wide gap in sequential numbers, the lack of a Mass Pike logo for Exit 20, and that the sign also has info for Exit 18, but no number given:


As always, all the photos are on my I-93 Photo Page:
http://www.gribblenation.net/mass21/i93photos.html

90 Toll?  Would it kill them to include the much more commonly used "Mass Pike"?  Foolish loyalty to rule books. 

[mass_citizen]

I has to drive into Boston last Wednesday and was able to get photos of the new signs. Here's the most interesting one given the wide gap in sequential numbers, the lack of a Mass Pike logo for Exit 20, and that the sign also has info for Exit 18, but no number given:

I'm confused, what part of that sign references anything at Mass Ave/Exit 18?  South station and I-90 are both accessed by exit 20. One can get off at exit 18 if they choose and eventually get to South station, but I think the purpose of the sign is to direct motorists to use exit 20.

[Zeffy]

There is new signage for all approach BGS' for Exit 15 NB, one new one for Exit 16 NB, a new 2 1/4 mile approach for Exit 20 NB, and a new Exit 18 NB sign with a hazardous cargo banner on the bottom.  Hopefully Bob can take some pics soon for us!  He's done a great job so far!   

I has to drive into Boston last Wednesday and was able to get photos of the new signs. Here's the most interesting one given the wide gap in sequential numbers, the lack of a Mass Pike logo for Exit 20, and that the sign also has info for Exit 18, but no number given:


As always, all the photos are on my I-93 Photo Page:
http://www.gribblenation.net/mass21/i93photos.html

Two things I note: The use of three destinations (on both signs), as well as putting the period after a direction (S. Boston, S. Station). I believe both of these practices are now prohibited in the 2009 MUTCD.

90 Toll?  Would it kill them to include the much more commonly used "Mass Pike"?  Foolish loyalty to rule books. 

I assume that Mass Pike is referenced more than I-90? Who knows, maybe they (the sign designers) didn't have a Mass Pike symbol in the GuidSIGN / SignCAD libraries.

[hotdogPi]

90 Toll?  Would it kill them to include the much more commonly used "Mass Pike"?  Foolish loyalty to rule books. 

I assume that Mass Pike is referenced more than I-90? Who knows, maybe they (the sign designers) didn't have a Mass Pike symbol in the GuidSIGN / SignCAD libraries.

I-90 isn't the Mass Pike anymore. They're changing it back to just I-90. Starting about 3 months ago (estimate), any VMS mentioning I-90 will say "I-90", not "Mass Pike".

[Zeffy]

I-90 isn't the Mass Pike anymore. They're changing it back to just I-90. Starting about 3 months ago (estimate), any VMS mentioning I-90 will say "I-90", not "Mass Pike".

The Mass Pike is going the way of the Connecticut Turnpike? Was this a fairly recent change?

EDIT: By "going the way of the Connecticut Turnpike" I meant that it's not being signed anymore, not having the tolls removed or anything.

[Pete from Boston]

90 Toll?  Would it kill them to include the much more commonly used "Mass Pike"?  Foolish loyalty to rule books. 

I assume that Mass Pike is referenced more than I-90? Who knows, maybe they (the sign designers) didn't have a Mass Pike symbol in the GuidSIGN / SignCAD libraries.

I-90 isn't the Mass Pike anymore. They're changing it back to just I-90. Starting about 3 months ago (estimate), any VMS mentioning I-90 will say "I-90", not "Mass Pike".

It is still the Mass Pike for sure, but I suspect the thinking here is that by simply referring to it as "I-90 (toll)," it makes familiar a format that could easily be applied to "I-93 (toll)" or "I-95 (toll)." 

In any case, willfully working against the public is bad road management specifically and bad public policy in general. 

[southshore720]

Newmarket Square, you mean?  Doesn't that repeat the problem?

I thought it was a neighborhood, like Savin Hill...oops!

[southshore720]

And I agree with the crowd that the MassPike shield should've been posted next to the I-90 shield on that sign.

[Pete from Boston]

Newmarket Square, you mean?  Doesn't that repeat the problem?

I thought it was a neighborhood, like Savin Hill...oops!

I don't really know the origin of that name. I know the produce market there is not terribly old, since a lot of that area was the South Bay until the middle of the last century.

I see both Newmarket and Newmarket Square used, but the former mostly recently.  The new MBTA station there is called Newmarket, but the MBTA never uses the word "square" anyway.

[PurdueBill]

Newmarket Square, you mean?  Doesn't that repeat the problem?

I thought it was a neighborhood, like Savin Hill...oops!

I don't really know the origin of that name. I know the produce market there is not terribly old, since a lot of that area was the South Bay until the middle of the last century.

I see both Newmarket and Newmarket Square used, but the former mostly recently.  The new MBTA station there is called Newmarket, but the MBTA never uses the word "square" anyway.

Well, there's Government Center "Blue Line at Scollay Square" type signage but that's all gone for the time being. 

Two things I note: The use of three destinations (on both signs), as well as putting the period after a direction (S. Boston, S. Station). I believe both of these practices are now prohibited in the 2009 MUTCD.

There are Mass Pike shields on replacement signs on 95/128.  I thought that they had said once that the Mass Pike name/shield was not going to be retired.  East of 93, there isn't a toll on what's left of 90 on the way to Logan and 1A, so the TOLL banner is a little odd.

Interestingly, there is no period after Rd but is after S.  I wish they'd allow periods after all proper abbrevs., but that's just me.  The Rd is part of a street name, while the S is part of a proper name, so I see just enough wiggle room to argue for its inclusion.  (I cringe when I see "Ft Wayne" but cringe less so if I see something like "Lafayette Center Rd" or something.  If the FHWA people come complaining to MassDOT, I say MassDOT should go ahead and put a greenout reading "South Station" over "S. Station". 

[mass_citizen]

Keep in mind as I believe roadman mentioned earlier in this thread that this project was designed well before the 2009 MUTCD was issued

[Beeper1]

The new signs on 495 also have the MassPike logo on them.

[SidS1045]

I-90 isn't the Mass Pike anymore. They're changing it back to just I-90. Starting about 3 months ago (estimate), any VMS mentioning I-90 will say "I-90", not "Mass Pike".

Given how many signs across the Commonwealth still refer to "Mass Pike" it's going to take years, if not decades, to erase that moniker from the public consciousness.

[Pete from Boston]

I think putting much stock in what any VMS says is a mistake.

[PHLBOS]

IMHO, the likely rationale for not placing a Mass Pike shield for this particular exit (& BGS') is that I-90 East of this point is actually the Liberty (the short tunnel where the ceiling collapsed several years ago) & the Ted Williams Tunnel.  While the 2 tunnels are still technically part of the Massachusetts Turnpike system (when it first opened); it may not be necessarily viewed as part of the Mass Pike per say.

Since the exit ramp is one of those exit ramps that later splits into separate ramps (one for I-90 West, the other for I-90 East); placing the yellow TOLL banner/placard on the main exit BGS', even though one direction (at the ramp split) does not involve any tolls is justified.  That toll-free ramp choice restricts one's destination to either the South Boston exit (Exit 25) or the Ted Williams Tunnel.

[Pete from Boston]

The Turnpike Authority was responsible for the building of that tunnel, and it continues the Mass Pike exit numbers.  Seems odd to arbitrarily need to distinguish it.

[roadman]

There is new signage for all approach BGS' for Exit 15 NB, one new one for Exit 16 NB, a new 2 1/4 mile approach for Exit 20 NB, and a new Exit 18 NB sign with a hazardous cargo banner on the bottom.  Hopefully Bob can take some pics soon for us!  He's done a great job so far!   

I has to drive into Boston last Wednesday and was able to get photos of the new signs. Here's the most interesting one given the wide gap in sequential numbers, the lack of a Mass Pike logo for Exit 20, and that the sign also has info for Exit 18, but no number given:


As always, all the photos are on my I-93 Photo Page:
http://www.gribblenation.net/mass21/i93photos.html

Two things I note: The use of three destinations (on both signs), as well as putting the period after a direction (S. Boston, S. Station). I believe both of these practices are now prohibited in the 2009 MUTCD.

The MassDOT MUTCD Amendments specifically provide for using a period with a cardinal direction abbreviation (N., S. E. W.).  Personally, I believe it gives a more 'finished' look to the sign legend.

90 Toll?  Would it kill them to include the much more commonly used "Mass Pike"?  Foolish loyalty to rule books. 

If you look closely at the project plans, and the existing signs for Exit 20, you will see no provisions for either a MassPike LOGO or a 'TOLL' banner.  My sources tell me that the TOLL banner was an 'add-on' initiated by the project contractor, and was not requested by MassDOT HQ or the District 6 office.

I assume that Mass Pike is referenced more than I-90? Who knows, maybe they (the sign designers) didn't have a Mass Pike symbol in the GuidSIGN / SignCAD libraries.

MassDOT has required its designers to use SignCAD only since 2007.  As for the MassPike LOGO, there are a number of bitmap files for the LOGO that can be easily imported into SignCAD.  However, as I noted above, none of the Big Dig era Exit 20 signs included a MassPike logo, so the additional Exit 20 signs provided on the Randolph to Boston project didn't either.

[PurdueBill]

The MassDOT MUTCD Amendments specifically provide for using a period with a cardinal direction abbreviation (N., S. E. W.).  Personally, I believe it gives a more 'finished' look to the sign legend.

Bravo MassDOT!  I like that they actively chose to pursue putting the period there.  It does seem to belong there in my mind

If the TOLL banner is off-book, at least the contractor didn't go NH style and add a yellow A TOLL ROAD panel across the top or something. 

How much latitude is the contractor supposed to have?  If MassDOT ordered the signs a certain way, shouldn't the contractor deliver what's ordered?

[roadman]

How much latitude is the contractor supposed to have?  If MassDOT ordered the signs a certain way, shouldn't the contractor deliver what's ordered?

This is actually the first instance in almost thirty years that I'm aware of where the contractor chose to make a change that was not on the plans or approved face drawing, nor was subsequently requested by the state.  The usual course of action is for the contractor/fabricator to make the signs exactly according to the approved face drawings, even when those face drawings include a misspelling (like the infamous Borad Street error that appeared on the then new I-495 BGSes at Exit 53 in Merrimack for a short period in the mid-1990s).

[mass_citizen]

The MassDOT MUTCD Amendments specifically provide for using a period with a cardinal direction abbreviation (N., S. E. W.).  Personally, I believe it gives a more 'finished' look to the sign legend.

Bravo MassDOT!  I like that they actively chose to pursue putting the period there.  It does seem to belong there in my mind

If the TOLL banner is off-book, at least the contractor didn't go NH style and add a yellow A TOLL ROAD panel across the top or something. 

How much latitude is the contractor supposed to have?  If MassDOT ordered the signs a certain way, shouldn't the contractor deliver what's ordered?

I've put up a blog post with photos taken of new signage and construction along I-95 while traveling to NH and back over the past couple days, plus some bonus I-93 and Portsmouth, NH bridge photos. Check it out:
http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2014/03/two-day-drive-along-i-95.html
Here's a preview along I-95 in Newton:

it looks like they did decide to use both the mass pike shield and "toll road" on the I-95 project however.

[roadman]

As I understand it, the decision to NOT use the MassPike shield and/or a TOLL banner on the Exit 20 signs (both the I-93 Randolph to Boston signs and the signs originally installed during the Big Dig) was because the principal destinations people use Exit 20 for (Ted Williams Tunnel/South Station/Chinatown/South Boston) do not require you pay a toll to access them.  This decision was apparently made in the late 1980s during the early days of Big Dig project sign planning.

I've also been told that the principal reason the MassPike shield was not included on the Exit 20 signs was political.  When the Big Dig project management was taken away from MassDPW, it was not handed to the Mass. Turnpike Authority.  Rather, a separate entity - the Metropolitan Highway System - was created by the Legislature instead.  For all practical purposes, the MHS could have been considered a subsidiary of the Massachusetts Turnpike Authority, but the politicians wanted to 'hide' that fact.

As the new signs on I-93 north supplement the existing Exit 20 signs installed during the Big Dig, it is actually logical they would use the same legends for consistency - the I-93 project contractor's actions notwithstanding.

[Pete from Boston]

Is there some equivalent of an "editor" in these decisions?  Someone, in other words, whose job is to ensure the primary criteria of clarity, consistency, and accuracy are being met, rather than simply replicating a previous decision?  I worked in publishing for quite a while, and in that realm, there is always a seasoned set of eyes reviewing for those criteria.   Highway departments seem to seldom apply the most basic ability to exercise this kind of judgement to good visual/verbal communications decision-making. 

[PHLBOS]

The Turnpike Authority was responsible for the building of that tunnel, and it continues the Mass Pike exit numbers.  Seems odd to arbitrarily need to distinguish it.

Do keep in mind that the exit numbers are also those of I-90. 

Roadman summoned earlier:

I've also been told that the principal reason the MassPike shield was not included on the Exit 20 signs was political.  When the Big Dig project management was taken away from MassDPW, it was not handed to the Mass. Turnpike Authority.  Rather, a separate entity - the Metropolitan Highway System - was created by the Legislature instead.  For all practical purposes, the MHS could have been considered a subsidiary of the Massachusetts Turnpike Authority, but the politicians wanted to 'hide' that fact.