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Author Topic: Wisconsin notes  (Read 518138 times)

The Ghostbuster

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3050 on: December 30, 2020, 09:19:56 PM »

I just noticed on Google Maps that STH-23 (between Fond du Lac and Plymouth) is now shown as a four-lane divided highway from just east of Division Rd. to where the four-lane previously reduced to two lanes just west of CTH-P.

Western Terminus: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7743387,-88.1511823,1669m/data=!3m1!1e3.

Eastern Terminus: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7686211,-88.034474,1670m/data=!3m1!1e3.

Hopefully, as more of the roadway is four-laned, the map will be updated to show it. Unfortunately, the Street View along that stretch of STH-23 was last updated in November 2018. Who knows how long before "the Google car" goes along that corridor again?
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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3051 on: December 30, 2020, 11:04:59 PM »

^^
Well, it is under construction and should be completed by this time next year.

Mike
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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3052 on: December 31, 2020, 09:08:20 PM »

I used to travel to Sheboygan a lot, and I always found that stretch of WI-23 interesting. I wonder if a resurfacing of the existing four lane highway between US-151 and the top of the hill will be part of the project.
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peterj920

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3053 on: January 03, 2021, 02:47:07 PM »

I used to travel to Sheboygan a lot, and I always found that stretch of WI-23 interesting. I wonder if a resurfacing of the existing four lane highway between US-151 and the top of the hill will be part of the project.

The existing 4 lane stretch is set to be reconstructed including a jug handle interchange with County K and a roundabout with a side street just east of the US 151 interchange. 
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3054 on: January 05, 2021, 03:11:14 PM »

There will also be interchanges at CTH-UU and at CTH-G. Those new interchanges and all of the existing interchanges further east on STH-23 (CTH-C, STH-67, STH-57, STH-32, CTH-Y, Interstate 43, and N. Taylor Dr. in Sheboygan), should all have exit numbers based on the mileage from STH-23's southern terminus at STH-11 five miles east of Shullsburg.
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thspfc

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3055 on: January 06, 2021, 11:38:33 AM »

There will also be interchanges at CTH-UU and at CTH-G. Those new interchanges and all of the existing interchanges further east on STH-23 (CTH-C, STH-67, STH-57, STH-32, CTH-Y, Interstate 43, and N. Taylor Dr. in Sheboygan), should all have exit numbers based on the mileage from STH-23's southern terminus at STH-11 five miles east of Shullsburg.
No interchange at CTH-W?
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Great Lakes Roads

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3056 on: January 06, 2021, 02:11:20 PM »


The "Flex Lane" project on the Beltline in Madison is "officially" going ahead with construction to start in March 2021 and to be completed by December 2021. This will be the first one in the state, and if successful, WisDOT might use this technology in other areas with high amounts of traffic with no room to widen.
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3057 on: January 06, 2021, 04:54:47 PM »

Is it sad that my takeaway from that video was wondering why they blued out the I-35W in their photo of a (formerly) real life functioning example?
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jakeroot

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3058 on: January 06, 2021, 08:28:11 PM »

I find it rather odd they are using a yellow "X" to warn of a merge and not an arrow as used elsewhere. I think an arrow is a bit clearer.
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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3059 on: January 07, 2021, 09:01:53 AM »

I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.
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skluth

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3060 on: January 07, 2021, 09:51:32 PM »

I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.

I know this would upset a lot of people. I think the half interchange at Seminole Highway, and full interchanges at Rimrock and Fish Hatchery, can be removed with no real change of usefulness. There would definitely need to be a new road between Fish Hatchery and Park/US 14, though I have no idea where you could build one these days. Rimrock traffic can use John Nolen. (IMO, Rimrock Road's interchange should never have been built in the first place.) The Beltline was already bad when I left Madison in 1980 and I thought those interchanges could have been removed even then.
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thspfc

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3061 on: January 08, 2021, 11:22:58 AM »

I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.

I know this would upset a lot of people. I think the half interchange at Seminole Highway, and full interchanges at Rimrock and Fish Hatchery, can be removed with no real change of usefulness. There would definitely need to be a new road between Fish Hatchery and Park/US 14, though I have no idea where you could build one these days. Rimrock traffic can use John Nolen. (IMO, Rimrock Road's interchange should never have been built in the first place.) The Beltline was already bad when I left Madison in 1980 and I thought those interchanges could have been removed even then.
I think everyone is in agreement with this. Rimrock and Seminole especially, but I would get rid of Todd Drive and keep Fish Hatchery. Parmenter and Greenway in Middleton are also pretty redundant.
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I-39

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3062 on: January 08, 2021, 11:51:32 AM »

I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.

I know this would upset a lot of people. I think the half interchange at Seminole Highway, and full interchanges at Rimrock and Fish Hatchery, can be removed with no real change of usefulness. There would definitely need to be a new road between Fish Hatchery and Park/US 14, though I have no idea where you could build one these days. Rimrock traffic can use John Nolen. (IMO, Rimrock Road's interchange should never have been built in the first place.) The Beltline was already bad when I left Madison in 1980 and I thought those interchanges could have been removed even then.

I wish I could like this 1,000 times!

This is what people don't seem to understand, not just here, but in freeways and major arterials around the country. What causes congestion is not necessarily the number of lanes (though it can be a factor), but more often than not, its the number of access points! Transportation authorities and other agencies put too many interchanges, stoplights, etc, close together. This causes unsafe weaving conditions and major backups as it prevents a meaningful flow of traffic.
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skluth

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3063 on: January 08, 2021, 06:24:55 PM »

I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.

I know this would upset a lot of people. I think the half interchange at Seminole Highway, and full interchanges at Rimrock and Fish Hatchery, can be removed with no real change of usefulness. There would definitely need to be a new road between Fish Hatchery and Park/US 14, though I have no idea where you could build one these days. Rimrock traffic can use John Nolen. (IMO, Rimrock Road's interchange should never have been built in the first place.) The Beltline was already bad when I left Madison in 1980 and I thought those interchanges could have been removed even then.
I think everyone is in agreement with this. Rimrock and Seminole especially, but I would get rid of Todd Drive and keep Fish Hatchery. Parmenter and Greenway in Middleton are also pretty redundant.

I'm fine with your idea but I doubt there's room for C-D lanes between Fish Hatchery and Park. The distance between the roads is maybe a half mile and IIRC it's the worst area outside the never-ending cluster**** at Verona Road/ Midvale. (It's been 10 years since I went that way so I don't know if the recent construction has helped; I'm not counting on it.) I really wouldn't want to keep both interchanges without C-D lanes or other mitigation which would add significantly to any upgrading costs. They'd probably have to take all the businesses along Ann St, though there's nothing there that couldn't be relocated.

I'm not familiar enough with the Beltline in Middleton to have a valid opinion (I was a poor college student without a car at the time), but looking at the map I'd say you're correct and would probably just get rid of the Greenway interchange too.
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SSOWorld

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3064 on: January 08, 2021, 10:51:25 PM »

I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.

I know this would upset a lot of people. I think the half interchange at Seminole Highway, and full interchanges at Rimrock and Fish Hatchery, can be removed with no real change of usefulness. There would definitely need to be a new road between Fish Hatchery and Park/US 14, though I have no idea where you could build one these days. Rimrock traffic can use John Nolen. (IMO, Rimrock Road's interchange should never have been built in the first place.) The Beltline was already bad when I left Madison in 1980 and I thought those interchanges could have been removed even then.
I think everyone is in agreement with this. Rimrock and Seminole especially, but I would get rid of Todd Drive and keep Fish Hatchery. Parmenter and Greenway in Middleton are also pretty redundant.

I'm fine with your idea but I doubt there's room for C-D lanes between Fish Hatchery and Park. The distance between the roads is maybe a half mile and IIRC it's the worst area outside the never-ending cluster**** at Verona Road/ Midvale. (It's been 10 years since I went that way so I don't know if the recent construction has helped; I'm not counting on it.) I really wouldn't want to keep both interchanges without C-D lanes or other mitigation which would add significantly to any upgrading costs. They'd probably have to take all the businesses along Ann St, though there's nothing there that couldn't be relocated.

I'm not familiar enough with the Beltline in Middleton to have a valid opinion (I was a poor college student without a car at the time), but looking at the map I'd say you're correct and would probably just get rid of the Greenway interchange too.
The Midvale-Verona interchange is now a SPUI with a roundabout jughandle following that on Verona. then 1 at-grade before the freeway starts (extended across McKee and under Williamsburg Way)
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peterj920

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3065 on: January 09, 2021, 01:01:41 AM »

I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.

I know this would upset a lot of people. I think the half interchange at Seminole Highway, and full interchanges at Rimrock and Fish Hatchery, can be removed with no real change of usefulness. There would definitely need to be a new road between Fish Hatchery and Park/US 14, though I have no idea where you could build one these days. Rimrock traffic can use John Nolen. (IMO, Rimrock Road's interchange should never have been built in the first place.) The Beltline was already bad when I left Madison in 1980 and I thought those interchanges could have been removed even then.

The Rimrock Rd Interchange is very busy and getting rid of it would inconvenience a lot of people. There are quite a few people that depend on it south of The Beltline. I personally used it every work day before having to work from home. If you get rid of that interchange it would cause way more problems on John Nolen Dr since so many people would have to turn left to get onto Rimrock when hardly anyone needs to now. Has anyone thought of that traffic issue that removing the Rimrock Interchange would cause?
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skluth

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3066 on: January 09, 2021, 02:04:42 PM »

I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.

I know this would upset a lot of people. I think the half interchange at Seminole Highway, and full interchanges at Rimrock and Fish Hatchery, can be removed with no real change of usefulness. There would definitely need to be a new road between Fish Hatchery and Park/US 14, though I have no idea where you could build one these days. Rimrock traffic can use John Nolen. (IMO, Rimrock Road's interchange should never have been built in the first place.) The Beltline was already bad when I left Madison in 1980 and I thought those interchanges could have been removed even then.

The Rimrock Rd Interchange is very busy and getting rid of it would inconvenience a lot of people. There are quite a few people that depend on it south of The Beltline. I personally used it every work day before having to work from home. If you get rid of that interchange it would cause way more problems on John Nolen Dr since so many people would have to turn left to get onto Rimrock when hardly anyone needs to now. Has anyone thought of that traffic issue that removing the Rimrock Interchange would cause?

Rimrock should be closed because it's too close to the exits on either side (the Beltline viaducts at Park and John Nolan are only 6800' apart as measured on Google Earth) and the least busy of the three busy exits. It would never have been built if the Beltline was being planned today. Yes, it inconveniences a lot of people but not that significantly; it's not like drivers are forced miles out of their way. Much of the traffic coming from/going to points west could use the underused (about 3,000/day on each ramp) US 14 McCoy Road exit if the John Nolen/ Rimrock intersection is too troublesome for the drivers. The less busy ramps to/from points east can be accessed the same way for those coming from the south, those closer south of the highway can exit at South Towne Drive/ Raymond Road, or John Nolan if they're north of the highway. These two ramps may be less a problem because of the continuous extra lane between Rimrock and John Nolan, but Rimrock to Park is far too close even with the extra mitigation lanes. I doubt removing Rimrock adds more than three minutes to any driver's commute. A lot of people are inconvenienced by highway upgrades, but most drivers will benefit by the significantly better traffic flow on the Beltline. In this case, a few people's inconvenience of having to drive a couple extra minutes to get to a freeway is as First World Problem as it gets. If the inconvenienced person is you, it may be of some consolation that I went through the same thing when Virginia closed the entrance onto the MLK Freeway in Portsmouth out of my Shea Terrace neighborhood as part of the Pinner's Point Interchange construction which added almost two minutes to my drive normally (but 5-10 during the morning rush).

I believe the traffic counts support thspfc's argument for keeping Fish Hatchery; over 11K to/from all directions on the Beltline though strangely the least busy movement on the Beltline (from WB) is the only one with two ramps. He's probably right that it would be better to close the Todd Drive exit. It's too bad that Dane County didn't extend Todd Drive down to Fish Hatchery back when Crazy TV Lenny was doing all those American TV ads.
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peterj920

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3067 on: January 11, 2021, 03:20:00 AM »

I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.

I know this would upset a lot of people. I think the half interchange at Seminole Highway, and full interchanges at Rimrock and Fish Hatchery, can be removed with no real change of usefulness. There would definitely need to be a new road between Fish Hatchery and Park/US 14, though I have no idea where you could build one these days. Rimrock traffic can use John Nolen. (IMO, Rimrock Road's interchange should never have been built in the first place.) The Beltline was already bad when I left Madison in 1980 and I thought those interchanges could have been removed even then.

Remove the Fish Hatchery Rd Interchange?! No way that would happen and that would cause all sorts of problems. It’s Fitchburg’s Main Street and 40,000 VPD travel on Fish Hatchery Rd in the Beltline Area.

Good thing that all this talk is fictional and the only interchange that plans on being removed is the Seminole Hwy Interchange. Removing all these interchanges would make driving very difficult for me and along with many other people who live on the south side of Madison and Fitchburg.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2021, 03:22:55 AM by peterj920 »
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3068 on: January 11, 2021, 03:06:10 PM »

There is a Beltline Corridor Study ongoing (US 14 to CTH N): https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/madisonbeltline/default.aspx. There haven't been any updates as to what they might do to the corridor since the last public involvement meetings in the fall of 2015.
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I-39

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3069 on: January 11, 2021, 03:08:20 PM »

I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.

I know this would upset a lot of people. I think the half interchange at Seminole Highway, and full interchanges at Rimrock and Fish Hatchery, can be removed with no real change of usefulness. There would definitely need to be a new road between Fish Hatchery and Park/US 14, though I have no idea where you could build one these days. Rimrock traffic can use John Nolen. (IMO, Rimrock Road's interchange should never have been built in the first place.) The Beltline was already bad when I left Madison in 1980 and I thought those interchanges could have been removed even then.

Remove the Fish Hatchery Rd Interchange?! No way that would happen and that would cause all sorts of problems. It’s Fitchburg’s Main Street and 40,000 VPD travel on Fish Hatchery Rd in the Beltline Area.

Good thing that all this talk is fictional and the only interchange that plans on being removed is the Seminole Hwy Interchange. Removing all these interchanges would make driving very difficult for me and along with many other people who live on the south side of Madison and Fitchburg.

Is Seminole highway actually confirmed to be removed?

What about removing Todd Drive as well?
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thspfc

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3070 on: January 11, 2021, 06:29:59 PM »

I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.

I know this would upset a lot of people. I think the half interchange at Seminole Highway, and full interchanges at Rimrock and Fish Hatchery, can be removed with no real change of usefulness. There would definitely need to be a new road between Fish Hatchery and Park/US 14, though I have no idea where you could build one these days. Rimrock traffic can use John Nolen. (IMO, Rimrock Road's interchange should never have been built in the first place.) The Beltline was already bad when I left Madison in 1980 and I thought those interchanges could have been removed even then.

Remove the Fish Hatchery Rd Interchange?! No way that would happen and that would cause all sorts of problems. It’s Fitchburg’s Main Street and 40,000 VPD travel on Fish Hatchery Rd in the Beltline Area.

Good thing that all this talk is fictional and the only interchange that plans on being removed is the Seminole Hwy Interchange. Removing all these interchanges would make driving very difficult for me and along with many other people who live on the south side of Madison and Fitchburg.

Is Seminole highway actually confirmed to be removed?

What about removing Todd Drive as well?
Todd needs to go. There are so many accidents in the area of that interchange.

I agree with Peter's assessment of Fish Hatchery. Going off his points about the Rimrock interchange, I think that the Rimrock interchange could be removed if the John Nolen interchange was rebuilt similarily to the Verona Road interchange. But to be honest, I don't see any changes to Rimrock or John Nolen for a very long time.
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peterj920

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3071 on: January 14, 2021, 03:00:32 AM »

I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.

I know this would upset a lot of people. I think the half interchange at Seminole Highway, and full interchanges at Rimrock and Fish Hatchery, can be removed with no real change of usefulness. There would definitely need to be a new road between Fish Hatchery and Park/US 14, though I have no idea where you could build one these days. Rimrock traffic can use John Nolen. (IMO, Rimrock Road's interchange should never have been built in the first place.) The Beltline was already bad when I left Madison in 1980 and I thought those interchanges could have been removed even then.

Remove the Fish Hatchery Rd Interchange?! No way that would happen and that would cause all sorts of problems. It’s Fitchburg’s Main Street and 40,000 VPD travel on Fish Hatchery Rd in the Beltline Area.

Good thing that all this talk is fictional and the only interchange that plans on being removed is the Seminole Hwy Interchange. Removing all these interchanges would make driving very difficult for me and along with many other people who live on the south side of Madison and Fitchburg.

Is Seminole highway actually confirmed to be removed?

What about removing Todd Drive as well?

The Seminole Hwy Interchange will be removed once the US 18/US 151 Verona Rd Phase 3 portion of the project gets constructed in order for high speed ramps to be constructed. That is many years away.
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I-39

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3072 on: January 14, 2021, 09:45:05 AM »

I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.

I know this would upset a lot of people. I think the half interchange at Seminole Highway, and full interchanges at Rimrock and Fish Hatchery, can be removed with no real change of usefulness. There would definitely need to be a new road between Fish Hatchery and Park/US 14, though I have no idea where you could build one these days. Rimrock traffic can use John Nolen. (IMO, Rimrock Road's interchange should never have been built in the first place.) The Beltline was already bad when I left Madison in 1980 and I thought those interchanges could have been removed even then.

Remove the Fish Hatchery Rd Interchange?! No way that would happen and that would cause all sorts of problems. It’s Fitchburg’s Main Street and 40,000 VPD travel on Fish Hatchery Rd in the Beltline Area.

Good thing that all this talk is fictional and the only interchange that plans on being removed is the Seminole Hwy Interchange. Removing all these interchanges would make driving very difficult for me and along with many other people who live on the south side of Madison and Fitchburg.

Is Seminole highway actually confirmed to be removed?

What about removing Todd Drive as well?

The Seminole Hwy Interchange will be removed once the US 18/US 151 Verona Rd Phase 3 portion of the project gets constructed in order for high speed ramps to be constructed. That is many years away.

I don't think Phase 3 will be done ever. They may as well just remove the ramps now, along with Todd Drive.
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thspfc

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3073 on: January 14, 2021, 12:42:02 PM »

I'm skeptical about how much a flex lane will improve things.  The Beltline's main issue is all the closely spaced interchanges that create weaving problems with exiting and entering traffic.  A flex lane is more effective when the interchanges are further apart, like US 23 north of Ann Arbor.

I've stated before, the most effective solution for the Madison Beltine isn't necessarily another lane, but unweaving the closely spaced interchanges and making the parallel local streets more connective. 

The money they're spending on this should be going toward an interchange at CTH K.

I know this would upset a lot of people. I think the half interchange at Seminole Highway, and full interchanges at Rimrock and Fish Hatchery, can be removed with no real change of usefulness. There would definitely need to be a new road between Fish Hatchery and Park/US 14, though I have no idea where you could build one these days. Rimrock traffic can use John Nolen. (IMO, Rimrock Road's interchange should never have been built in the first place.) The Beltline was already bad when I left Madison in 1980 and I thought those interchanges could have been removed even then.

Remove the Fish Hatchery Rd Interchange?! No way that would happen and that would cause all sorts of problems. It’s Fitchburg’s Main Street and 40,000 VPD travel on Fish Hatchery Rd in the Beltline Area.

Good thing that all this talk is fictional and the only interchange that plans on being removed is the Seminole Hwy Interchange. Removing all these interchanges would make driving very difficult for me and along with many other people who live on the south side of Madison and Fitchburg.

Is Seminole highway actually confirmed to be removed?

What about removing Todd Drive as well?

The Seminole Hwy Interchange will be removed once the US 18/US 151 Verona Rd Phase 3 portion of the project gets constructed in order for high speed ramps to be constructed. That is many years away.

I don't think Phase 3 will be done ever. They may as well just remove the ramps now, along with Todd Drive.
I agree with I-39 here. WISDOT spent all that time and money on phase 2. They're not ripping it up and starting over anytime soon. I think the earliest we could see construction of phase 3 is 25-30 years. They should just do away with the useless interchanges now.
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thspfc

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Re: Wisconsin notes
« Reply #3074 on: January 14, 2021, 12:46:52 PM »

Also, on Seminole - does anyone know the backstory of how it got that name? Becuase I'm surprised it survived the latest wave of cancel culture, especially in a place like Madison.
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