AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

New rules for political content in signatures and user profiles. See this thread for details.

Author Topic: Future I-57/US 67  (Read 166864 times)

Anthony_JK

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1372
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
  • Last Login: July 08, 2020, 10:56:51 AM
Re: Future I-57/US 67
« Reply #550 on: June 19, 2017, 04:55:33 AM »

I said it before and will say it again. (Just like interstate 49) make it a toll road. Charge 2 dollars for all the snowbirds who travel from the Midwest to Texas and it solves the Statewide funding issues. Make the local residents buy a sticker pass

Federal law and Arkansas/Missouri law forbids the construction of Interstate and US highways as toll roads.
Logged

Henry

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 5589
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Chicago, IL/Seattle, WA
  • Last Login: Today at 01:24:24 AM
    • Henry Watson's Online Freeway
Re: Future I-57/US 67
« Reply #551 on: June 19, 2017, 09:51:23 AM »

I reckon that I-57 would be completed before I-49, given the situations in Bella Vista and central Kansas City.
Logged
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

The Ghostbuster

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2510
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Madison, WI
  • Last Login: March 12, 2020, 06:05:15 PM
Re: Future I-57/US 67
« Reply #552 on: June 19, 2017, 04:31:40 PM »

I think the laws forbidding US and Interstate Highways as toll roads should be repealed. You no longer need toll booths. All tolls could be collected electronically.
Logged

sparker

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6922
  • Location: Bay Area, CA
  • Last Login: Today at 02:37:04 AM
Re: Future I-57/US 67
« Reply #553 on: June 19, 2017, 05:42:17 PM »

I think the laws forbidding US and Interstate Highways as toll roads should be repealed. You no longer need toll booths. All tolls could be collected electronically.

Not quite -- all tolls could be charged to the customer electronically; actual collection depends upon agency access to individual customer accounts -- a la the various pre-paid and/or monthly billed systems found with most current toll road systems.  "Bill-by-plate" systems, particularly in regard to out-of-state vehicles, contain a much higher and more convoluted collection system requiring paper billing (for legal purposes) and inevitable delays in collection.  Also, they're seen as another step toward the public cost of driving being addressed by direct user fees vis-a-vis a more diffused system like fuel taxation -- for better or worse, the present default system.  The only way to toll efficiently is to get pretty much every potential user of the toll roads (both regular and incidental) on the same page regarding setting up individual accounts for billing purposes -- and a lot of folks regard that as a step too far in terms of privacy as well as "upcharging" (particularly if the governing jurisdiction wishes to engage in such things as congestion pricing, regular-usage discounting, etc.).  Making the assumption that the driving public in general is consistently using or even adept at media manipulation so as to make toll-road usage just another app is in itself a big stretch!  Universal electronic tolling is only in the conceptual stage right now -- it'll be a long haul until a system that is intuitive enough to be used by most of the driving public can be developed. 
Logged

Bobby5280

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2151
  • Location: Lawton, OK
  • Last Login: July 03, 2020, 03:36:04 PM
Re: Future I-57/US 67
« Reply #554 on: June 19, 2017, 09:33:11 PM »

Tolls. No tolls. Who cares? There honestly is no such thing as a "free" road. You pay for it via taxes at the fuel pumps or you pay for it with tolls. All roads cost money. So it really shouldn't make any difference if a new Interstate has toll booths on it or not.

I keep laughing at the complaints people here in Oklahoma make about removing the toll booths and how the roads have been "paid for" already. I had a conversation with one friend this weekend on the topic. Do these people somehow think that once a toll road has been "paid for" then that's it? No more money to be spent on the road ever again? We can take down the toll booths. But the trade off is a nice hike in the gasoline taxes (which, by the way, have not been raised since 1993).
Logged

Rothman

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 5871
  • Last Login: July 07, 2020, 07:00:26 PM
Re: Future I-57/US 67
« Reply #555 on: June 19, 2017, 10:19:16 PM »



Tolls. No tolls. Who cares? There honestly is no such thing as a "free" road. You pay for it via taxes at the fuel pumps or you pay for it with tolls. All roads cost money. So it really shouldn't make any difference if a new Interstate has toll booths on it or not.

Pfft. 

Right, we pay for it via gas taxes OR tolls -- but NOT both.  That is why it matters quite a bit. 
Logged
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Bobby5280

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2151
  • Location: Lawton, OK
  • Last Login: July 03, 2020, 03:36:04 PM
Re: Future I-57/US 67
« Reply #556 on: June 20, 2017, 01:54:42 AM »

Any so-called "free" road requires maintenance and periodic improvement like adding lanes or safety features like cable barriers. I don't know about Arkansas, but Oklahoma's fuel tax rate is pathetically out of date and I know it's not the only state with grossly under-funded fuel tax rates. Getting those rates increased in "red" states like mine is all but impossible to do. And then if they actually do something (like the 1.25% fee increase new vehicle purchase excise tax) all that money goes into the general fund, not transportation. Hell, Gov. Fallin was going to do that with her fuel tax increase idea.

If the selfish voters cannot understand the concept of inflation, how that applies to a 24 year old fuel tax rate that doesn't buy shit compared to what it did in 1993, and they insist on voting down any fuel tax rate increases then something has to give. A road that was previously "free" might end up with some toll booths installed on it. With the way things are going I won't be surprised to see RFID toll tag readers sprout up on regular surface streets.

Maybe the voters can take a pay cut down to what they were making 1993 and try to balance their checkbooks on that.
Logged

US71

  • Road Scholar , Master of Snark
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 9807
  • Sign Inspector, mad man with a camera

  • Age: 60
  • Location: On the road again
  • Last Login: July 08, 2020, 09:49:21 PM
    • The Road Less Taken
Re: Future I-57/US 67
« Reply #557 on: June 20, 2017, 09:58:55 AM »

Any so-called "free" road requires maintenance and periodic improvement like adding lanes or safety features like cable barriers. I don't know about Arkansas, but Oklahoma's fuel tax rate is pathetically out of date and I know it's not the only state with grossly under-funded fuel tax rates. Getting those rates increased in "red" states like mine is all but impossible to do. And then if they actually do something (like the 1.25% fee increase new vehicle purchase excise tax) all that money goes into the general fund, not transportation. Hell, Gov. Fallin was going to do that with her fuel tax increase idea.

If the selfish voters cannot understand the concept of inflation, how that applies to a 24 year old fuel tax rate that doesn't buy shit compared to what it did in 1993, and they insist on voting down any fuel tax rate increases then something has to give. A road that was previously "free" might end up with some toll booths installed on it. With the way things are going I won't be surprised to see RFID toll tag readers sprout up on regular surface streets.

Maybe the voters can take a pay cut down to what they were making 1993 and try to balance their checkbooks on that.

Like many aren't already?
Logged
Fear itself is largely an illusion.

rte66man

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1244
  • Location: Warr Acres, OK
  • Last Login: July 08, 2020, 08:25:38 AM
Re: Future I-57/US 67
« Reply #558 on: June 20, 2017, 02:40:54 PM »

Any so-called "free" road requires maintenance and periodic improvement like adding lanes or safety features like cable barriers. I don't know about Arkansas, but Oklahoma's fuel tax rate is pathetically out of date and I know it's not the only state with grossly under-funded fuel tax rates. Getting those rates increased in "red" states like mine is all but impossible to do. And then if they actually do something (like the 1.25% fee increase new vehicle purchase excise tax) all that money goes into the general fund, not transportation. Hell, Gov. Fallin was going to do that with her fuel tax increase idea.

If the selfish voters cannot understand the concept of inflation, how that applies to a 24 year old fuel tax rate that doesn't buy shit compared to what it did in 1993, and they insist on voting down any fuel tax rate increases then something has to give. A road that was previously "free" might end up with some toll booths installed on it. With the way things are going I won't be surprised to see RFID toll tag readers sprout up on regular surface streets.

Maybe the voters can take a pay cut down to what they were making 1993 and try to balance their checkbooks on that.

I'll throw this out for discussion.  Some people vote against a fuel tax increase in OK because of how politics has screwed up an efficient way of fixing roads.  When a state can 4 lane rural SW OK highways that parallel each other about 20 miles apart (OK6 and US 183) while letting urban needs in OKC and Tulsa go untreated, then people get very cynical and don't trust the government to spend any increase wisely. 

IMO, if they want a fuel tax increase, then it needs to be tied to specific projects based on objective needs.  I can see dividing the increased revenue by ODOT district, AADT, or some other way that ensures the projects that are most needed are funded first.  Once they are completed, then the next tier can be funded, and on down the line.  Sure, I see this is a "pie in the sky" idea, but I do know if some new approach isn't tried, then the public will continue to turn down a fuel tax increase.
Logged
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

Bobby5280

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2151
  • Location: Lawton, OK
  • Last Login: July 03, 2020, 03:36:04 PM
Re: Future I-57/US 67
« Reply #559 on: June 21, 2017, 12:53:46 AM »

The vast majority of voters are not thinking about details in the slightest bit. All they see is "tax hike" and they knee-jerk yell "wasteful spending" without providing or even knowing any specifics to back it up.

I'll agree the US-183 and OK-6 projects were political pork barrel crap born in the 1990's, basically conciliation prizes for not getting those stupid Clinton to Snyder and Duncan to Davis turnpikes built. Since then we've had a hell of a lot of globalization spike the prices of concrete, steel, asphalt and any other road building material. Safety standards have mandated more expensive designs to new roadways and existing highways. I saw ODOT do a lot of work beefing up shoulders and adding cable barriers to OK-7, US-62 and I-44 around here. That wasn't cheap. Voter don't think about any of that stuff. Like I've said before, voters think all that stuff can be paid for with prayer and flag waving.
Logged

bugo

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6182
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Oklahoma
  • Last Login: June 15, 2020, 07:12:53 AM
    • No Frills Blog
Re: Future I-57/US 67
« Reply #560 on: June 21, 2017, 07:35:30 PM »

I see somebody deleted my post about overmoderation. I guess I hit too close to home. I'm waiting for this post to disappear down the memory hole. At aaroads, it's not 2017, it's 1984.
Logged

I-39

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1155
  • Last Login: July 07, 2020, 01:51:48 PM
Re: Future I-57/US 67
« Reply #561 on: June 21, 2017, 07:45:44 PM »

Alright, enough! Please stop talking about Oklahoma and its refusal to raise money for transportation. It's frustrating, I know, but this thread has nothing to do with that. Take the conversation elsewhere. Please and thank you!
« Last Edit: June 24, 2017, 02:37:49 PM by I-39 »
Logged

Road Hog

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1225
  • Location: Collin County, TX
  • Last Login: July 08, 2020, 09:53:51 PM
Re: Future I-57/US 67
« Reply #562 on: June 22, 2017, 04:13:59 AM »

Arkansas voters have a history of supporting tax increases when presented in a statewide referendum. They approved one of the nation's first soft drink taxes a full two decades before NYC did. They've approved gas tax increases and bond issues for roads. The mood might be anti-tax in Little Rock, but they'll go for it in Lavaca and Lepanto.
Logged

bugo

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6182
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Oklahoma
  • Last Login: June 15, 2020, 07:12:53 AM
    • No Frills Blog
Re: Future I-57/US 67
« Reply #563 on: June 22, 2017, 12:56:11 PM »

Alright, enough! Please stop talking about Oklahoma and it's refusal to raise money for transportation. It's frustrating, I know, but this thread has nothing to do with that. Take the conversation elsewhere. Please and thank you!

"its"
Logged

Scott5114

  • *
  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 8840
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Norman, OK
  • Last Login: Today at 05:01:01 AM
    • Denexa 100% Plastic Playing Cards
Re: Future I-57/US 67
« Reply #564 on: June 23, 2017, 08:36:12 AM »

Alright, enough! Please stop talking about Oklahoma and it's refusal to raise money for transportation. It's frustrating, I know, but this thread has nothing to do with that. Take the conversation elsewhere. Please and thank you!

"its"

  • When replying to other posters, messages should focus on the content of the post being replied to, and not its presentation (spelling, grammar, usage, etc.)
Logged

US71

  • Road Scholar , Master of Snark
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 9807
  • Sign Inspector, mad man with a camera

  • Age: 60
  • Location: On the road again
  • Last Login: July 08, 2020, 09:49:21 PM
    • The Road Less Taken
Re: Future I-57/US 67
« Reply #565 on: June 23, 2017, 11:27:17 AM »

Arkansas voters have a history of supporting tax increases when presented in a statewide referendum. They approved one of the nation's first soft drink taxes a full two decades before NYC did. They've approved gas tax increases and bond issues for roads. The mood might be anti-tax in Little Rock, but they'll go for it in Lavaca and Lepanto.

So Asa has more to reward his pals with (you seriously don't believe it will all go to roads?
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 11:29:42 AM by US71 »
Logged
Fear itself is largely an illusion.

US71

  • Road Scholar , Master of Snark
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 9807
  • Sign Inspector, mad man with a camera

  • Age: 60
  • Location: On the road again
  • Last Login: July 08, 2020, 09:49:21 PM
    • The Road Less Taken
Re: Future I-57/US 67
« Reply #566 on: June 23, 2017, 07:51:45 PM »

Alright, enough! Please stop talking about Oklahoma and it's refusal to raise money for transportation. It's frustrating, I know, but this thread has nothing to do with that. Take the conversation elsewhere. Please and thank you!

"its"

Logged
Fear itself is largely an illusion.

yakra

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1077
  • Location: Area Code 207, bub!
  • Last Login: July 03, 2020, 01:03:42 AM
Re: Future I-57/US 67
« Reply #567 on: June 24, 2017, 02:07:10 AM »

The palindrome of "Bolton" would be "Notlob"
Logged
"Officer, I'm always careful to drive the speed limit no matter where I am and that's what I was doin'." Said "No, you weren't," she said, "Yes, I was." He said, "Madam, I just clocked you at 22 MPH," and she said "That's the speed limit," he said "No ma'am, that's the route numbah!"  - Gary Crocker

I-39

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1155
  • Last Login: July 07, 2020, 01:51:48 PM
Re: Future I-57/US 67
« Reply #568 on: June 24, 2017, 02:39:40 PM »

Arkansas voters have a history of supporting tax increases when presented in a statewide referendum. They approved one of the nation's first soft drink taxes a full two decades before NYC did. They've approved gas tax increases and bond issues for roads. The mood might be anti-tax in Little Rock, but they'll go for it in Lavaca and Lepanto.

So Asa has more to reward his pals with (you seriously don't believe it will all go to roads?

It all depends on how it is worded. If its worded properly to ensure it only goes to roads, the public may support it.
Logged

dvferyance

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1251
  • Location: New Berlin WI
  • Last Login: July 07, 2020, 09:38:55 PM
Re: Future I-57/US 67
« Reply #569 on: June 24, 2017, 06:22:42 PM »

I think the laws forbidding US and Interstate Highways as toll roads should be repealed. You no longer need toll booths. All tolls could be collected electronically.
Get I Pass/ EZ Pass if you want to pay that way. That what it is for.
Logged

bugo

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6182
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Oklahoma
  • Last Login: June 15, 2020, 07:12:53 AM
    • No Frills Blog
Re: Future I-57/US 67
« Reply #570 on: June 24, 2017, 07:49:43 PM »

Alright, enough! Please stop talking about Oklahoma and it's refusal to raise money for transportation. It's frustrating, I know, but this thread has nothing to do with that. Take the conversation elsewhere. Please and thank you!

"its"

  • When replying to other posters, messages should focus on the content of the post being replied to, and not its presentation (spelling, grammar, usage, etc.)

*yawn*

Is doxxing against forum rules?
Logged

bugo

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6182
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Oklahoma
  • Last Login: June 15, 2020, 07:12:53 AM
    • No Frills Blog
Re: Future I-57/US 67
« Reply #571 on: June 24, 2017, 07:55:14 PM »

The way the OTA is set up, the system is not complete if any part of the system is under construction and is not eligible to be converted to a free road. What OTA does is keeps the turnpikes under perpetual construction. They rebuild a section of highway very cheaply so it will have to be rebuilt in 10 years. The western part of the Muskogee Turnpike is a good example. It's been rebuilt twice since I moved to Tulsa in 2007. Right now there are 2 or 3 construction zones on the Muskogee, all west of US 69.

Portions of the Indian Nation Turnpike are in awful condition. I drove it from McAlester to Henryetta two weeks ago today and the section just north of US 270/OK 1 is terrible. I remember parts further to the south being in rough shape the last time I drove it a few years ago.

They are finally rebuilding the toll plaza on the Muskogee at the OK 51 interchange near Coweta. The through lanes will become Pikepass lanes and cash customers will have to exit off to pay the toll, a system that all of the turnpikes should use. It will be exactly like the system on the Creek Turnpi - I mean "Liberty Parkway", hehehe.
Logged

US71

  • Road Scholar , Master of Snark
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 9807
  • Sign Inspector, mad man with a camera

  • Age: 60
  • Location: On the road again
  • Last Login: July 08, 2020, 09:49:21 PM
    • The Road Less Taken
Re: Future I-57/US 67
« Reply #572 on: June 24, 2017, 09:15:52 PM »


They are finally rebuilding the toll plaza on the Muskogee at the OK 51 interchange near Coweta. The through lanes will become Pikepass lanes and cash customers will have to exit off to pay the toll, a system that all of the turnpikes should use. It will be exactly like the system on the Creek Turnpi - I mean "Liberty Parkway", hehehe.

I noticed that last week. Looks like the 51/351 junction is also being improved.
Logged
Fear itself is largely an illusion.

bugo

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6182
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Oklahoma
  • Last Login: June 15, 2020, 07:12:53 AM
    • No Frills Blog
Re: Future I-57/US 67
« Reply #573 on: June 24, 2017, 09:32:41 PM »

There is construction at the 51/Muskogee Turnpike split, but I didn't see anything that looked like they were rebuilding the interchange.
Logged

US71

  • Road Scholar , Master of Snark
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 9807
  • Sign Inspector, mad man with a camera

  • Age: 60
  • Location: On the road again
  • Last Login: July 08, 2020, 09:49:21 PM
    • The Road Less Taken
Re: Future I-57/US 67
« Reply #574 on: June 24, 2017, 09:42:11 PM »

There is construction at the 51/Muskogee Turnpike split, but I didn't see anything that looked like they were rebuilding the interchange.

Down near the new toll booths being built, at least South/East Bound. I was going to back and look my way home, but didn't.
Logged
Fear itself is largely an illusion.

 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.