High-speed tolls on the Pell Bridge in Rhode Island

[Mdcastle]

The rental car customers are the ones getting the horrible deal in the electronic tolling craze. If I rent a car in Boston now I have to pay the original Tobin Bridge toll, plus presumably a service charge by Mass Pike, plus a service charge by the car rental company? I can easily see it being a $20-$30 toll. When I was in Florida I had to pay $45.00 for unlimited tolls (and only used about half that) because the Florida's Turnpike extension is cashless now.

[deathtopumpkins]

The rental car customers are the ones getting the horrible deal in the electronic tolling craze. If I rent a car in Boston now I have to pay the original Tobin Bridge toll, plus presumably a service charge by Mass Pike, plus a service charge by the car rental company? I can easily see it being a $20-$30 toll. When I was in Florida I had to pay $45.00 for unlimited tolls (and only used about half that) because the Florida's Turnpike extension is cashless now.

As someone who's rented a car in Boston (before I moved up here), I can vouch that that is not the case up here at least. The rental car came with an E-ZPass that was just a regular old Massachusetts one and just had tolls tacked right onto your rental bill. No extra charges from the rental car company, and I don't understand what service charge you think MassDOT (MassPike hasn't existed since the 2009 reorganization) would charge you. And if you didn't want to use it you just stuck it in the bag and paid cash. There aren't any all-electronic toll roads up here.

[agentsteel53]

I got tolled the actual rate, without markup, when I rented a car with a transponder from the Philadelphia airport.  This covered New Jersey and New York roads.

[PHLBOS]

With due respect to your opinions about toll takers (and I'm not defending them either), there a far more practical reason for eliminating the "exact change" at the Sumner and Ted Williams Tunnels tolls.  The toll is now $3.50 for passenger cars - how many people routinely carry that much change with them?

ECLs for the Sumner Tunnel were eliminatated eliminated when the one-way toll was raised from $0.60 to $1 in August of 1989.  The reasoning for doing do was due to the fact that it was easier & quicker to hand a toll collector a single rather than throwing a bunch of coins (how many actually carry $1 coins on them?) in a basket.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-8133325.html

[vdeane]

I actually had a couple dollar coins on me for a few days.  Then I deposited the remainder of the Canadian money from the recent Honors trip to Ottawa, so the coins went to the bank.

Almost never see American dollar coins though.

[deathtopumpkins]

I actually have quite a few of them because that's the largest coin MBTA fare vending machines give out as change. Once or twice I've paid for a $6.75 commuter rail ticket with a $20. Ended up with 13 dollar coins as change, which were a mix of Susan B. Anthony, Sacagawea, and some random one I'd never seen before.

This makes me believe they'd be more common than you'd think, if a major transit agency gives them out as change.

[agentsteel53]

I think I've gotten maybe 8 of them back in the last few years.  mostly from vending machines which accept $5 bills.

[roadman]

This makes me believe they'd be more common than you'd think, if a major transit agency gives them out as change.

The fact you gots lots of change (as opposed to bills) back speaks more to the poor design of the MBTA's fare collection system then to the widespread usage of dollar coins by Americans.  Most critics of the "Charile" fare system (yes, it was named after the man in the Kingston Trio song) consider the fact the machines dispense dollar coins isntead of bills to be one of the system's major shortcomings.

[PHLBOS]

This makes me believe they'd be more common than you'd think, if a major transit agency gives them out as change.

The fact you gots lots of change (as opposed to bills) back speaks more to the poor design of the MBTA's fare collection system then to the widespread usage of dollar coins by Americans.  Most critics of the "Charile" fare system (yes, it was named after the man in the Kingston Trio song) consider the fact the machines dispense dollar coins isntead of bills to be one of the system's major shortcomings.

Actually, the MBTA isn't the only transit agency that dispenses $1 coins for change.  In the Delaware Valley, PATCO & NJ transit machines dispenses them; SEPTA, when they had them, did as well.  Also, vending machines at Post Offices dispense $1 coins for change as well.

That said, most drivers using toll facilities don't typically have $1 coins with them unless they recently used either a postal or transit agency vending machine.

Additionally, my earlier-posted reasoning for the Mass Turnpike Authority's decision to do away w/ECLs for the Sumner Tunnel occurred well after production of the Susan B. Anthony dollar coin ceased (in 1981) but prior to the Sacagawea dollar coin entering circulation (mid '90s).

[agentsteel53]

prior to the Sacagawea dollar coin entering circulation (mid '90s).

the Sacagawea dollar has been made since 2000.  it was originally slated to enter circulation earlier, but there was some bureaucratic delay so to cover the interim need, the US started minting Anthony dollars with a 1999 date!

[akotchi]

I actually have quite a few of them because that's the largest coin MBTA fare vending machines give out as change. Once or twice I've paid for a $6.75 commuter rail ticket with a $20. Ended up with 13 dollar coins as change, which were a mix of Susan B. Anthony, Sacagawea, and some random one I'd never seen before.

This makes me believe they'd be more common than you'd think, if a major transit agency gives them out as change.

The "random ones" are probably Presidential dollars.  Since 2007, the Mint has been doing a dollar series on the presidents, similarly "rolled out" as the quarters of the last 13 years.

Post offices, vending machines and transit fare machines are about the only places dollar coins are ever seen any more.  As long as there is still a $1 bill, no coin will ever take hold.

[deathtopumpkins]

This makes me believe they'd be more common than you'd think, if a major transit agency gives them out as change.

The fact you gots lots of change (as opposed to bills) back speaks more to the poor design of the MBTA's fare collection system then to the widespread usage of dollar coins by Americans.  Most critics of the "Charile" fare system (yes, it was named after the man in the Kingston Trio song) consider the fact the machines dispense dollar coins isntead of bills to be one of the system's major shortcomings.

Poor design? How would you suggest they do it better? There's no such thing (at least not that I know of) as a vending machine that dispenses cash as change. In fact I view this as an improvement over most vending machines (like for soda or candy), which dispense only up to quarters as change, no matter how much you put in there.
And yes, I do know who Charlie is. And yes I do know "Charlie on the M.T.A." It's kinda hard to live here and not know about Charlie. But my transaction in question actually has nothing to do with CharlieCards/tickets, as it was on commuter rail, which doesn't accept CharlieCards.
And by the way, this should make you happy: they're phasing out this system anyway, in favor of letting people buy tickets with their credit card on their mobile phone and having the conductor scan your screen. Which means no more getting change, if you have a smartphone.

[shadyjay]

MTA (the real MTA in NYC, that is) also dispenses dollar coins.  I've ridden Metro North and all of their ticket machines dispense dollar coins. 

[agentsteel53]

There's no such thing (at least not that I know of) as a vending machine that dispenses cash as change.

gambling cashout machines.  Las Vegas ones, I believe, dispense the full gamut up to $100 bills, up to a total quantity of I believe $1000*.  but, you are right, that requires a separate mechanism, and it is not worth it to try to install a paper tray instead of a slightly wider coin sorter that accepts one more coin.

* I do not know for sure.  My biggest cashout in a casino has been $28.  I once won $62 at a gas station in Searchlight, and I redeemed the ticket at the human-operated cash register.

[Roadgeek Adam]

NJ Transit has debuted some cash dispensing ticket vending machines in certain locations.

[roadman]

This makes me believe they'd be more common than you'd think, if a major transit agency gives them out as change.

The fact you gots lots of change (as opposed to bills) back speaks more to the poor design of the MBTA's fare collection system then to the widespread usage of dollar coins by Americans.  Most critics of the "Charile" fare system (yes, it was named after the man in the Kingston Trio song) consider the fact the machines dispense dollar coins isntead of bills to be one of the system's major shortcomings.

Poor design? How would you suggest they do it better? There's no such thing (at least not that I know of) as a vending machine that dispenses cash as change. In fact I view this as an improvement over most vending machines (like for soda or candy), which dispense only up to quarters as change, no matter how much you put in there.
And yes, I do know who Charlie is. And yes I do know "Charlie on the M.T.A." It's kinda hard to live here and not know about Charlie. But my transaction in question actually has nothing to do with CharlieCards/tickets, as it was on commuter rail, which doesn't accept CharlieCards.
And by the way, this should make you happy: they're phasing out this system anyway, in favor of letting people buy tickets with their credit card on their mobile phone and having the conductor scan your screen. Which means no more getting change, if you have a smartphone.

How would I change the design?  Simple - just eliminate cash sales entirely (which BTW was one of the MBTA's publically stated reasons for introducting automated fare collection in the first place).  That eliminates the change issue.  And, if you insist on dispensing change, it can be done so in bills - look at any supermarket that has a "self-serve" checkout line.  Those machines don't give change in dollar coins.

Byy the way, this matter of getting change in dollar coins is not an issue for me.  I buy a monthly pass with a debit card provided by my employer - they deduct from my pay and apply the amount to the card each month.

When you bouight your commuter rail fare, the medium it was issued on is a CharileTicket - which is a one time use paper ticket.  And the current fare vending machines already let use credit/debit cards to buy your tickets.  So, why not just make the system totally cashless?

As for the proposed smartphone app (which probably will only work with iPhony and Dread), the T is just pi**ing their money down a hole with another wasteful gimmick.  If the T were really serious about eliminating cash sales on commuter trains (even if the goal is so they can lay off still more staff), then they would put fare vending machines at all commuter rail stations AND dispense fares only on CharlieCards (the resusable RFID ones).  But I guess the T's reasoning is it's better to waste $500K on a gimmick that few riders (15% by most estimates) will use rather than invest $70 million in a system that all riders can benefit from (even monthly pass holders benefit from this, as eliminating CharlieTickets in favor of the CharlieCards means passholders can now use the "swipe" system in the subway).

And my comment about "Charlie on the MTA" was meant for the benefit of people on this forum who may not be from the area.

[PHLBOS]

There's no such thing (at least not that I know of) as a vending machine that dispenses cash as change.

gambling cashout machines.  Las Vegas ones, I believe, dispense the full gamut up to $100 bills, up to a total quantity of I believe $1000*.  but, you are right, that requires a separate mechanism, and it is not worth it to try to install a paper tray instead of a slightly wider coin sorter that accepts one more coin.

I've seen some car wash vending machines (to purchase the wash) that dispense dollar bills for change.

Back to the original topic at hand, or at least the original location (the Newport/Pell Bridge): when did they stop accepting their old tokens... remember those?

[Alps]

ECLs for the Sumner Tunnel were eliminatated

Elimitanted, you mean.

Also, the reason all these machines dispense dollar coins is because no one else will, and SOMEBODY has to use them, right?

[agentsteel53]

Also, the reason all these machines dispense dollar coins is because no one else will, and SOMEBODY has to use them, right?

nobody has to use them.  as far as I know, nobody in an organized context uses two-dollar bills, and they're still being made.  just random people who like to spend them.  I know a few.

[PurdueBill]

Speaking of dollar coins and $2 bills, I used $2 bills for hotel housekeeper tips and dollar coins to pay for parking at the staffed cashier booth (cash only) on a trip that I just returned home from today.  I'm one of _those_ people. 

Rental car E-ZPass tags often do involve a surcharge from the rental car company if you use it--if you use it for a toll one time on one day of a 5-day rental, they may hit you for $2.50 "service charge" for each day of the rental.  Seems like a scam but they write it into their terms.  I've avoided it by always bringing my own tag and adding the rental car to the account.  This can be done online even in the parking lot of the rental car agency before leaving.  MassPike even addresses rental cars in their FAQ; they say to simply remember to remove the rental car from your account a couple days after all transactions clear that should show.
The toll agency doesn't charge extra when you use a toll tag that comes with a rental car, however.
Rental car toll tags I have seen have usually been NY Thruway ones or Illinois ones, even on vehicles plated in other states.  They must get the best deal from those providers; even when renting a car in Boston that has a toll tag I have yet to get one with a Mass toll tag.  (If I can choose a car, I will usually select one with a tag anyway and then it already has the velcro installed on the windshield. The included tag can be left closed in the case and put in the glove compartment.)

[PHLBOS]

ECLs for the Sumner Tunnel were eliminatated

Elimitanted, you mean.

Actually, I meant eliminated.  I've since corrected my older post.  That's what I get for typing too fast.

the Sacagawea dollar has been made since 2000.  it was originally slated to enter circulation earlier, but there was some bureaucratic delay so to cover the interim need, the US started minting Anthony dollars with a 1999 date!

You're right about the date, but my earlier point regarding the MTA's reasoning/rationale for removing the Sumner Tunnel ECLs are still valid.  There were NO $1 coins being minted in the US circa 1989 (when the ECLs came down).  The Susie B's stopped being minted after 1981.

[jeffandnicole]

How fast is "high speed?"

Posted speed limit on at open road toll gantries:

Maryland's Route 200 (55);
N.J. Turnpike Exit 1 (50 at the toll plaza, I think);
Garden State Parkway southbound at the Pascack Valley plaza (55);
I-95/Delaware Turnpike (55);
Delaware 1/Relief Route (at Biddles Corner) (55). 

I understand that the Mark IV technology used by the E-ZPass IAG allows reading of passing vehicles at much higher speeds, though I have not conducted any tests myself.

N.J. Turnpike Exit 1 (50 at the toll plaza, I think): NJ Turnpike ORT lanes are 55 mph at all 3 locations (1 & 18W are signed; 6 is not)
Garden State Parkway southbound at the Pascack Valley plaza (55); See GSP Speed Limits below
I-95/Delaware Turnpike (55);
Delaware 1/Relief Route (at Biddles Corner) (55).  DE 1 ORT lanes are 65 mph at both locations

Additionally, speed limits at other ORTs:

AC Expressway is unsigned 65 mph at the Egg Harbor Plaza.
AC Expressway is signed 45 mph at the Pleasantville Plaza (the plaza nearest AC).
Garden State Parkway is unsigned at whatever the prevailing speed limit is (65/55/45).

I'm extremely surprised at Maryland.  They have one of the poorest toll plaza EZ Pass lane setups at both the plazas on 95.

At the Perryville toll plaza, they now use the 3 left toll lanes for EZ Pass only.  The plaza would appear very easily to convert to ORT, but they refuse to do it.  To make matters worse, the lane painting still directs the left lane to the left EZ Pass lane only.  Those who know can stay in the center lane coming up to the plaza, then get over to the other EZ Pass lanes relatively easy.

At the Baltimore Tunnel, they did convert 2 lanes to 1 ORT, but only with a 30 mph speed limit.  And when there's a line of traffic, and one person slows to 30 mph, it causes everyone to slow to 30 mph.  The next lane over is also used exclusively for EZ Pass also, but as above, the lane painting isn't set up to direct people to that lane very well.

At the tunnel, what I would like to see is the plaza set up so that the inner tube for each direction is for those that are using EZ Pass only, which would allow the nearby toll plaza to be more easily converted to high speed EZ Pass.  For those that want to access the interchange just south of the tunnel, they would need to use a traditional toll lane and the outer tube.  The current setup just creates additional congestion that could easily be eliminated.

[Alps]

ECLs for the Sumner Tunnel were eliminatated

Elimitanted, you mean.

Actually, I meant eliminated.  I've since corrected my older post.  That's what I get for typing too fast.

You clearly missed the other thread.

[roadman]

PHLBOS's spellng error reminds me of a NHDOT goof that few people probably ever noticed.  For years, the overhead exit direction sign from the C/D road off of I-93 north to I-89 north in Bow had an Interstate shield that read "INSTERSTATE".

Never was able to get a photo of it (real bad location for pulling over) before those signs were replaced in 2007.

[Alps]

PHLBOS's spellng error reminds me of a NHDOT goof that few people probably ever noticed.  For years, the overhead exit direction sign from the C/D road off of I-93 north to I-89 north in Bow had an Interstate shield that read "INSTERSTATE".

Never was able to get a photo of it (real bad location for pulling over) before those signs were replaced in 2007.

Never noticed that. In fact, on my I-93 page, none of the overhead shields have that misspelling. Unless it was the misshapen gore sign, you may have been seeing things.
(That said, I'm convinced I saw BOWNGRADE on I-89 years ago, but the sign was gone by the time I returned.)